[Purple Haize]

I started this thread to spur some debate and conversation. Is it to early to have this conversation, maybe? Butch Jones is in his second third game at TN and if you read Vol Nation message boards most of the threads are already questioning if he's the right guy. Here's the deal with Gill. He's a great man. I don't think anyone would question that. What I do question is his coaching record and ability. I wasn't going to get this detailed, but with some of the childish comments on this thread I'll show you what I base my opinion on.

Prior records are pretty useless in this conversation. The least successful coach (arguably) in the Big South has already beaten Richmond and Wofford this year, so let's not get sidetracked on what happened elsewhere. Thankfully, folks like you have no influence at all on what LU does in regards to coaching. When we see your name on the side of a building feel free to start a "Fire Coach ________" campaign.

ha, now that's funny. I have to have my name on a building before I can question if we have the right coach running the program. I never said Gill should be fired. I'm just not pleased with the on field performance.

Well what would please you? Who would please you? Don't forget to factor in recruiting and talent stable. I'm embarrassed for all coaches if you actually have experience coaching and are belly aching already

[rogers3]

Frankly, I've enjoyed the on the field performance this year better than any year since Rocco's third season. No money or underwriting needed from you... I'd just settle for maturity, and with that, patience. A nine point loss to Richmond is not worth starting this whole mess about. Either way, I think that few are interested in asking that question, so I won't bother getting in the way of the ones who want to.

[flamehunter]

On field performance in terms of discipline is way ahead of 2 years ago. That was one of the Rocco era's biggest negatives. Remember all the stupid penalties - false starts, late hits, etc., and turnovers. That aspect of the game is much better than it was.

[flameshaw]

On field performance in terms of discipline is way ahead of 2 years ago. That was one of the Rocco era's biggest negatives. Remember all the stupid penalties - false starts, late hits, etc., and turnovers. That aspect of the game is much better than it was.

+1

[jbock13]

Obviously we have. But someone said that we haven't so far under Gill.

Fair.

[jcmanson]

Gill has done what he's supposed to do to this point, nothing more, nothing less.

Had the disappointing loss last season against Norfolk State, but made up for that with the win over Stony Brook. Losses to Wake, Montana, Lehigh, & Coastal were no surprise.

Same thing with this year, we've won the 2 games we were supposed to and lost the 2 we were supposed to.

[PAmedic]

I thought the Lehigh game was a surprise. I always figure we should beat them.

living 30 min away- they don't impress me. never have

[PatrickKelly]

Manson, I want more than what's expected in terms of wins and losses. I graduated from Liberty in 1996. In the span of those years we've been to the playoffs ZERO times in football and twice in basketball. I think the fan base has been very patient.

[jcmanson]

Manson, I want more than what's expected in terms of wins and losses. I graduated from Liberty in 1996. In the span of those years we've been to the playoffs ZERO times in football and twice in basketball. I think the fan base has been very patient.

You're preaching to the choir.

[BJWilliams]

You also know that we have had four coaches (well technically three since coach Sam was there three more years after you graduated...) and all of them had at least enough time to cycle out the previous coach's players and get at least one year with their own recruits (three to four years). its good to want success..but you can't expect instant results from every new basketball and football coach.

[GillsHill2013]

Here is a head scratcher...


FCS Football budgets - VA

Liberty $8,424,492
James Madison $6,608,363
Richmond $5,563,301
William and Mary $4,502,955
VMI $3,277,337
Hampton $2,935,128
Norfolk State $2,332,815

Hmmmm

[LUconn]

man, we should just buy some wins.

[PAmedic]

I've heard forever that money doesnt buy wins and I get that but in that case- why don't we spend less?

and/or spread the money around to other programs. I mean, if cash doesnt matter.

can't have it both ways. either $$$ talks/bs walks or not. or both. idk.

regardless- with the exception of the last 3 on that list- those programs are well ahead of ours, despite the money.

and we even lost to NSU

[Purple Haize]

Manson, I want more than what's expected in terms of wins and losses. I graduated from Liberty in 1996. In the span of those years we've been to the playoffs ZERO times in football and twice in basketball. I think the fan base has been very patient.

It is by far and away easier to turn a basketball program around than it is to turn a football program around. We have been in the deadly "grey" are for years now. Karcher had plenty of time to cycle his recruits in but when he left we hadn't gone to the playoffs. Rocco had plenty of time to cycle his recruits in but when he left we hadn't gone to the playoffs. Gill just got here, has won more Championships (although only on paper) than Karcher and reached the same level as Rocco. We have just not made good hires. However, I think the 3rd time is a charm and Gill is the guy to do it. This is not basketball where if a team is lousy one recruit or one scheme change can reverse your fortunes. Has the LU fan base been patient? Absolutely. Hopefully, the powers that be got it right this time. And judging by early returns, they have. If you REALLY want the football program to go into the crapper, keep replacing your coach every 2 or 3 years. That is truly a recipe for disaster.

[BJWilliams]

Karcher had plenty of time (started in 2000 left in 2005) and we were actually worse off when he finished (culminating in the worst record in school history). Rocco had plenty of time (started in 2006 left in 2011) and we were pretty much digging out of what Karcher left. Now we have Coach Gill and we have improved in his first year. PH is right in saying that one recruit or even one recruiting class isnt going to give you instant results. If you want something instant...I dunno, go get a case of Ramen or something...youll get results that are fast enough for you that way.

[Purple Haize]

Karcher had plenty of time (started in 2000 left in 2005) and we were actually worse off when he finished (culminating in the worst record in school history). Rocco had plenty of time (started in 2006 left in 2011) and we were pretty much digging out of what Karcher left. Now we have Coach Gill and we have improved in his first year. PH is right in saying that one recruit or even one recruiting class isnt going to give you instant results. If you want something instant...I dunno, go get a case of Ramen or something...youll get results that are fast enough for you that way.

BJ made a funny! And a great point!

[BJWilliams]

Karcher had plenty of time (started in 2000 left in 2005) and we were actually worse off when he finished (culminating in the worst record in school history). Rocco had plenty of time (started in 2006 left in 2011) and we were pretty much digging out of what Karcher left. Now we have Coach Gill and we have improved in his first year. PH is right in saying that one recruit or even one recruiting class isnt going to give you instant results. If you want something instant...I dunno, go get a case of Ramen or something...youll get results that are fast enough for you that way.

BJ made a funny! And a great point!

Thank you thank you Im here all week, try the surf and turf and tip your waitress on the way out

[GillsHill2013]

Manson, I want more than what's expected in terms of wins and losses. I graduated from Liberty in 1996. In the span of those years we've been to the playoffs ZERO times in football and twice in basketball. I think the fan base has been very patient.

It is by far and away easier to turn a basketball program around than it is to turn a football program around. We have been in the deadly "grey" are for years now. Karcher had plenty of time to cycle his recruits in but when he left we hadn't gone to the playoffs. Rocco had plenty of time to cycle his recruits in but when he left we hadn't gone to the playoffs. Gill just got here, has won more Championships (although only on paper) than Karcher and reached the same level as Rocco. We have just not made good hires. However, I think the 3rd time is a charm and Gill is the guy to do it. This is not basketball where if a team is lousy one recruit or one scheme change can reverse your fortunes. Has the LU fan base been patient? Absolutely. Hopefully, the powers that be got it right this time. And judging by early returns, they have. If you REALLY want the football program to go into the crapper, keep replacing your coach every 2 or 3 years. That is truly a recipe for disaster.

wise statement about every two or 3 years. This reminds me of the state of Colorado football currently.

[VAGolf]

I'm pretty neutral on my thoughts on Gill. He has done some excellent things for the football program, especially with these recruiting classes. However, I do question some of his play calls, but I think you would get that with any coach. (Plus, I'm just a fan, what do I know about play calling?)

On that note, I'll excuse the loss to Richmond. Rocco is extremely tough to beat following a loss. Gardner Webb went in there and pushed his team around for 3 hours, he wasn't about to lose for a second week in a row, especially to Liberty. It was kind of a set up game and the rain didn't help our offensive efforts.

I do know this, if we go down to ODU and pick up a win, I'll be starting a "Gill for Life" campaign. Point being, let's at least wait until the end of the season before we start casting doubt.

[BJWilliams]

PatrickKelly...I'd do weel to be careful of your comments...especially considering a) the coaches check the site and some of the administrators...and b) we just had a Patrick Kelly who was a pretty decent football player has a brother on the team and I don't think it'd go too well if someone named PatrickKelly got his brother kicked off the team...

[EL_YU]

and b) we just had a Patrick Kelly who was a pretty decent football player has a brother on the team and I don't think it'd go too well if someone named PatrickKelly got his brother kicked off the team...

If Dakota was kicked off the team because some guy on a message board with the same username as his brother (who obviously isn't his brother) started this thread, THEN maybe we would have some questions of the Gill staff.
As far as this thread is concerned, I think Gill definitely deserves time to shape the program into his own. At the same time though, that isn't an excuse to settle this season. We have a talented team and I will definitely be disappointed if that doesn't translate into a successful year.

[Yacht Rock]

and b) we just had a Patrick Kelly who was a pretty decent football player has a brother on the team and I don't think it'd go too well if someone named PatrickKelly got his brother kicked off the team...

If Dakota was kicked off the team because some guy on a message board with the same username as his brother (who obviously isn't his brother) started this thread, THEN maybe we would have some questions of the Gill staff.
As far as this thread is concerned, I think Gill definitely deserves time to shape the program into his own. At the same time though, that isn't an excuse to settle this season. We have a talented team and I will definitely be disappointed if that doesn't translate into a successful year.

I had the same thought. Obviously you would never want someone running your team with such a reactionary thin skin as in the hypothetical. Patrick can toot his opinion all he wants (and I disagree with him) but if anyone ever took it that seriously, they would be the one on the losing end.

I seriously L O L'd when I read this comment.

[PAmedic]

PatrickKelly...I'd do weel to be careful of your comments...especially considering a) the coaches check the site and some of the administrators...and b) we just had a Patrick Kelly who was a pretty decent football player has a brother on the team and I don't think it'd go too well if someone named PatrickKelly got his brother kicked off the team...

maybe your most stupid post yet and that's saying something BEEJAY.

[thepostman]

Par for the course. I'm sure he was just having a bad day. Which makes it ok.

With that said Rocco put all cards on the table during his final season. He didn't leave program in terrible shape. But still lacked talent. Year 4 is always the make or break year for college coaches with some minor exceptions.

[BJWilliams]

Hey man, it has come to my attention that someone has been writing degrading or questionable messages about LU football and Turner Gill on a website.
I am writing to you as a concerned brother. As you know, my brother is on the team, and I've been informed that coaches are confronting him about whatever "Patrick Kelly" is saying. I have always spoken highly of my university and was blessed to have the opportunities I had while a member of the team. Would there be any way to rectify this situation? I would like to keep my somewhat decent reputation and my brothers collegiate future in good standing. Thank you and Go Flames