[Blessed1]

http://sga.appstate.edu/index.php?modul ... ith&id=155

Appy State did this in 2001. I don't think we played them in football since that last series was finished.

And again, one of those nonplayoff appearance was directly linked to realignment. The Socon took Elon to delay the Big South from getting an autobid and in responce to the Big South's taking of VMI.

Wow! I heard something about this from App St. fans on message boards in regards to "not scheduling Liberty again", but I thought it was some sort of myth...I guess we won't be getting their vote then.

Seriously though, I think this was done under an old administration that felt they had to do something because everyone was after Liberty. Actions like App St. does hurt in conference affiliation and scheduling. No wonder we're scheduling D2s.

To be honest with you guys, I could not see Liberty moving up under Doc. It would have been a witch hunt to any conference that invited Liberty at that time. When God called Doc home, it allowed for JFJR and Pastor Johnathan to keep their dad's Christian values, but to show folks that they were totally different in temperament and personality. I feel more confident in moving to FBS under JFJR leadership.

[Blessed1]

Liberty not making the playoffs in certain years had more to do with not being good enough in certain areas or certain games. For instance, the loss to Presby when we went 9-2, I believe. That loss was the deciding factor for that year. The Big South tie-breakers were ridiculous and didn't help. I think one year the Big South tie-breaker was based off of the team that gave up the least amount of points would go to the playoffs. I think that particular year Liberty was terrible on defense. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.) The Big South changed its tie-breaker rules, but we still have not been able to win outright. It has always been like "a day late, a dollar short" situation regarding Liberty and the playoffs.

[LUaddict]

Brent has been right about a lot of these rumors. There we have it folks, we might be done with our FBS invite for a lil while. This is very depressing like LUGrad said!

[thepostman]

It is only depressing if you allow every report to take you too high or too low.

[flamesfilmguy]

I'm with postie. I really held no real hope that we would actually get an invite so I'm not really disappointed or surprised. However I think our focus needs to take a serious shift. The Big South is about to be raided. SOCON needs at least 2 if not 3 teams at the least to replace the impending departure of GAsouth APP and Davidson. I can almost guarantee that Coastal will be pushing for it and hard. VMI being a former member might also be a candidate. If we lose any of them we need to get out. NOW.

[forbidden]

If LU couldn't move up to SBC, which is what they wanted in the first place, what makes you think it would b that ez to go to a diff conference (FCS). From what I read the two that need the most teamsre apparently the same two that denied LU entry when they applied the first go around.

What is to say the same thing that basically is denying entry into SBC won't b same thing that continues to hold them out of these conf. Again.

[Kolzilla41]

I admit it could be a stupid comment, but why join an organization that didn't want us the first time? Perhaps I'm thinking emotionally, but that's just my thinking right now.

But I'm happy focusing on FCS for now.

Because if we do not get in the in the next year, it could be years before we even get another sniff.

[jimflamesfan]

If LU can't move up which is what they wanted in the first place, what makes you think it will b just that ez to go to a diff conference. From what I read the two that need the most teamsre apparently the same two that denied LU entry when they applied the first go around.

What is to say the same thing that basically is denying entry into SBC won't b same thing that continues to hold them out of these conf. Again.

The CAA and Southern are bleeding teams...We'd be a better fit for the SoCon, but I don't know if they would invite us, we've tried that road before..the CAA in my opinion would take us in a heartbeat, but the CAA is in a slight mess right now with teams all over the place.

If we knew for certain Coastal and VMI were bolting, I'd ask the CAA...if Coastal and VMI stay...we might as well stay put. I don't think the SoCon would ask us before they offered VMI & W&M and Coastal.

[Blessed1]

If LU can't move up which is what they wanted in the first place, what makes you think it will b just that ez to go to a diff conference. From what I read the two that need the most teamsre apparently the same two that denied LU entry when they applied the first go around.

What is to say the same thing that basically is denying entry into SBC won't b same thing that continues to hold them out of these conf. Again.

The CAA and Southern are bleeding teams...We'd be a better fit for the SoCon, but I don't know if they would invite us, we've tried that road before..the CAA in my opinion would take us in a heartbeat, but the CAA is in a slight mess right now with teams all over the place.

If we knew for certain Coastal and VMI were bolting, I'd ask the CAA...if Coastal and VMI stay...we might as well stay put. I don't think the SoCon would ask us before they offered VMI & W&M and Coastal.

I totally agree with your post, especially concerning the Big South. If everyone stays, most likely we're staying too.

The only problem we may have with the Southern Conference is that they are going probably to consider schools such as Kennesaw St., Mercer, and Coastal before Liberty. However, like I mentioned earlier, they seem to be making the move towards private schools. This would definitely work in our favor.

Liberty need a conference that caters to private schools and/or schools with "religious" backgrounds. There are virtually none of them at the FBS level. The WCC have a mixture of small private schools, thus explains why BYU "fits" right in like a glove. Most of the conferences with private schools on the east coast are based in the northeast (MAAC, NEC) and mid west (the new basketball-only Big East) and might not suit Liberty from a traveling standpoint.

[flamesfilmguy]

The SoCON is adding Mercer and probably 2 more. The private schools are academically minded in the league so they probably would frown upon us being added as a replacement for APP. However I think they would rather have us than most public schools so theres always that chance. As far as the CAA goes I'm sure Yeager has already been begging to get us in. I'd be ok with either. Honestly I think staying in the BSC is a huge mistake.

[forbidden]

So no matter what conference LU is always a second option nvr a first option

[Purple Haize]

So no matter what conference LU is always a second option nvr a first option

Now you're getting it

[flamesfilmguy]

unless you are talking about the big south or CAA then yes. We are. Sorry to burst everyone's bubble but we aren't wanted by anyone in academia at this point so getting presidents to vote for us will be very difficult. do we have allies out there? sure but for the most part we do not have many people out there who want to be in any way associated with us. We need to learn to accept it, embrace it and move on.

[BJWilliams]

That being said, I still have faith in Jerry Jr and Mr Barber that they will do due diligence to see Dr Falwell's vision become reality while still remaining true to the vision he set when the university was founded.

[VAGolf]

I'm going to go off the deep end a little bit with this suggestion. I think we all agree that being in the Big South really hinders our ability to perform. I don't think we necessarily need to be FBS to accomplish several of our goals. And if things are going the way that it's being reported, we won't be FBS for the next several years. What if we started our own FCS conference? Yeah, sure that sounds crazy but think of a conference where we run things. We could have complete control over televising games with LFSN (this would actually be a major advantage to prospective schools). We could find schools that are either private religious institutions or create a regional league. I'm sure there are several other advantages to this, as well as some disadvantages. I just can't fathom staying in the Big-South for the next ten years. The So-Con and CAA don't exactly seem all that appealing either. With all of the unstableness in other conferences, I could see a lot of schools being interested in this.

[flamefaninNC]

that would not work very well. I thought our goal was to get in the playoffs and show that we deserve to be FBS. If we start a new league then we loose that automatic bid for a awhile. Not to mention how hard it is to begin a new conference

[4everfsu]

And how are we supposed to not play D2s when we can't get a d1 home game?

I don't think our AD would ever want to schedule more than 1 d2, but where we are at we have no choice.

Exactly why it would not work if we went independent as some say..

[roadkingjim]

Just my .02 worth but if the rumor is true regarding LU and the perceived invite then I am sure that the administration will put an announcement out confirming such. They put an announcement out to confirm that they were in discussions so it is reasonable to think that they would announce that the SB conference isn't in the cards right now, etc.... So until I see that, or the SB officially announces another school, I am just going to assume that everything is just hearsay on this particular rumor. We have all heard and read conflicting and back-in-forth information from day one on this (from the external sources stated on this board) so I won't believe it until it's confirmed. I hope others will as well...

I try not to think of it too much but I wonder, along with all the other hypothesis mentioned if a invite is not extended, how this will affect recruiting going forward? We've been "dangling" that FBS carrot for a few years now.

I will also say that the NCAA needs to intervene with these conferences and create additional requirements that will attempt to keep the "politics" and biased opinions and speculation out of the equation!

[rogers3]

I will also say that the NCAA needs to intervene with these conferences and create additional requirements that will attempt to keep the "politics" and biased opinions and speculation out of the equation!

The foolishness that seems to surround the SunBelt leadership is surprising. They really seem to be a desperate group, based on the wrangling that Benson has displayed over the last few months. There is obviously little NCAA oversight over who is invited to step up to the next level. It seems rather disingenuous to allow teams to transition that are not prepared financially or in the Title IX areas, but apparently there are really low bars set for some schools; there are few schools ready, but the NCAA has allowed several that aren't ready to move up and the SunBelt has mentioned several others for consideration that are several years away from being close to ready. No wonder schools that get an opportunity to leave the SunBelt get out as quickly as possible.

[Blessed1]

Here's another .02. If the rumors are true, then maybe it's because the SB did not like the fact that JB said Liberty was talking to the SB. Personally, I felt the comments were rather bold on JB's part since most people are quiet while in discussions.

The comments from JB in the paper might have sparked a storm of emails from alumni saying to block Liberty or they will not support the school financially. Yes, I know my theory sounds crazy. But if you ever spent 10 minutes of your time on the SB message boards, you would know that the emailing and calling of school presidents would not be too far-fetched for them.

I truly believe that JB only spoke because he received some sort of indication from Benson that an invitation was probable.

[TallyW]

At some point these conferences do open themselves up to anti-trust issues and potential collusion arguments. For the NCAA to deny our ability to participate through their tiers system in this one particular sport defies the foundation of free markets and is essentially the reason for anti-trust laws on monopolies.

The subjective nature is what would open them up for problems. If the basis for entry into the "big boy league" is capacity, Title IX concerns or budget... those are within a FCS University's control. If, however, a system is set up to be subjective and that subjectivity denies a University access to a larger stream of revenue, that's classic collusion. The NCAA is the body I am referring to, not the SBC or ACC. No conference affiliation is a 'right' however the ability to play as an independent should be a right if a university is unable to get invited into a conference.

Do I feel that LU should sue? Not quickly. But if it becomes evident that we develop enough evidence that the reasons we're being denied have to do with religious reasons, political reasons or even free-speech reasons...we have a right to nudge our way through the door.

Access should be based on a set of rules that allow a free market approach to take place. 15,000 average fans? Fine. Financial stability? Sure. Title IX? Absolutely.

Free speech? No. Political persuasion? No. Religious freedom? Absolutely not.

I don't know if there is really an injustice here. I really don't. I am however saying that if there is an injustice on the grounds I'm presenting I would hope and expect that we'd take that on to be given the same opportunity as any Independent. Football is the only place in D-1 where this division exists and this invitation rule is in place.

Getting teams to play us at that point would be another challenge but I'd presume we could control that i$$ue long enough to become friends with a few schools.

[PatrickKelly]

Great post tallyw. Exactly what I've been thinking, but couldn't put it to words as well as you did. In regards to the schedule it may not be as difficult as some think. The big 10 have announced they will no longer play fcs schools. I think that trend will continue. It would be reasonable to get 2 for 1 deals from mid major FBS schools.

[forbidden]

Now if u sue and were to win who would u play, if u think ur basically being blackballed now, what do you think the repercussions then would be.

[rmiller1959]

This is a pretty good summary of the past few weeks:

http://www.libertyflamesnation.com/2013 ... ot-to.html

So now we wait. Let's hope and pray for a great 2013 football season, a Big South championship and some playoff success. Thanks to the New York Times and Washington Post, the rebranding of Liberty has begun, and the basketball team gave us a boost with their improbable run to the NCAA tournament. Each brick builds on top of the other, and before we know it, we'll have built a program that is too attractive to be ignored.

Thinking ahead, remember the national publicity Appalachian State got when they beat Michigan in the Big House? Or JMU when they beat the Hokies? Those were the only two times in NCAA history that an FCS school beat a ranked FBS opponent, and those were program-changing wins. We play Va Tech in the Fall 2016 season. I know that seems like ages away, but maybe an LU win at Lane Stadium is what it will take.

We have Kent State in 2013 and West Virginia in 2015. I don't know whether or not they'll be ranked, but winning those games wouldn't hurt, either.

[TallyW]

If that were to happen I know it would be difficult but honestly the language these schools understand is money. No one wants to say it but look at every single move that has occurred. I'm in Maryland. UMD just moved to the Big Ten for no other reason but money. If LU is willing to take that gamble, they could essentially create contracts that would give enough incentive for schools to play us. Lets face it... the SBC has nothing in the way of name recognition anyway. I don't see people flooding Williams Stadium to watch us play most of these schools.

Lets face it... the SBC thinks they're better than us and we think we'll soon be better off than the SBC. It is what it is. For the short term we could make it financially beneficial for some schools to hold their nose and play us. In the meanwhile we could develop our TV packages, our national footprint and our overall brand to get past some of the issues we're faced with today. We're in the middle of a rebranding and it may take another 5-10 years but once we do, we're in good shape. We could then cut back on the losses and be in a position to either accept a conference invite or pick our opponents form a larger list.

If we continue to harness a decreasing Evangelical population it could actually work in LU's favor. The loyalty to and for our brand will grow the more that Evangelicals feel that they are being squeezed out of the public square. From a branding perspective it's a good thing for the university. I'd rather it were not true but it is what it is.