[olldflame]

I understand and share your frustration gmth, but your statement is just not accurate. Of those 3 sports, basketball is the only one we have not consistently beaten our BSC opponents in, and even there it´s tough to justify that statement after beating the host team and all of the top seeds on our way to the tournament championship. Clearly, we can´t beat Coastal in baseball, but prior to this year we were unquestionably the second best program in the conference. As far as football is concerned, we have either zero or 1 loss in conference the past 5 years and have won or shared the championship. The bizarre fact that has not led to any tournament bids is frustrating, but it doesn´t change the fact that our football team almost always wins in conference.

I´m not saying I´m satisfied. it should be better, but I don´t see the point in throwing something like that out there when it just isn´t true.

[thepostman]

We don't when it matters that's for sure

[SuperJon]

Under Toman, we've dropped a critical series to someone we were clearly better than (UNCA, HPU, etc) every single year. He can't win when it matters. He over manages because he can't coach. And that's just the on field stuff. The off field stuff is Dunton-esque.

[SumItUp]

Jeff Meyer was on TV last night.

[Purple Haize]

Jeff Meyer was on TV last night.

I will accept that answer for The Rule

[givemethemic]

The point of my post was that we are NOT getting it done in Football, Men's basketball, and Baseball.

Oldfame, there is nothing bizzare about us not getting to the playoffs, we haven't won when it matters in conference play. SJ mentioned it in baseball. 4 years and we have really nothing to show for it in football, baseball and I'll give Men's basketball a pass this year...but we were the worst team to make it to the dance.

The show up and pray to God we are competetive attitude left the campus a long time ago. We all want to get out of the Big South and say that we are FBS ready but we can't win when it matters in the B.S. We should be dominating this league and we haven't EVER!!!!!

[SuperJon]

From our friends over at Flames Nation:

With this weekend's sweep, the Flames have now lost 20 consecutive games against Coastal Carolina in baseball. A few notes regarding this streak
140-43 Combined score
In 13 of the 20 games, Liberty never had a lead
The latest Liberty has ever held a lead was in the 7th, on just 2 occasions
The Flames have been held to 1 run or less 9 times
Coastal has ended Liberty's season 3 times
5 losses came against Coastal in the Big South Tournament
3 losses came against Coastal in the Championship of the Big South Tournament
The last win was May 24, 2008 in the Big South Tournament
The last regular season win was March 29, 2008
Liberty has not defeated Coastal during the Obama administration

[olldflame]

You say we don´t win when it matters in football gmtm. Tell me, what are the games that don´t matter? From the time the BSC got it´s autobid, as things played out the only way we could have gotten that bid woud have been to go undefeated. All of those games mattered, not just the one a year we lost. We have won more games than anyone in BSC play over the last 5 years and have won or tied for the championship each of those years. I would say that not having a bid due to crazy 3 way tiebreakers, etc., is bizarre.

[Purple Haize]

You say we don´t win when it matters in football gmtm. Tell me, what are the games that don´t matter? From the time the BSC got it´s autobid, as things played out the only way we could have gotten that bid woud have been to go undefeated. All of those games mattered, not just the one a year we lost. We have won more games than anyone in BSC play over the last 5 years and have won or tied for the championship each of those years. I would say that not having a bid due to crazy 3 way tiebreakers, etc., is bizarre.

But if we had won the games we should and that matter we wouldn't have to worry about tie breakers.

[newoldschool17]

that is like blaming the refs for a bad call at the end of a game....

[olldflame]

You say we don´t win when it matters in football gmtm. Tell me, what are the games that don´t matter? From the time the BSC got it´s autobid, as things played out the only way we could have gotten that bid woud have been to go undefeated. All of those games mattered, not just the one a year we lost. We have won more games than anyone in BSC play over the last 5 years and have won or tied for the championship each of those years. I would say that not having a bid due to crazy 3 way tiebreakers, etc., is bizarre.

But if we had won the games we should and that matter we wouldn't have to worry about tie breakers.

My point was that they all mattered. Not just the ones we lost. The only way we would have gotten a bid the last 3 years would have been to win them all. We didn´t. neither did anyone else. The tiebreakers didn´t go our way and we didn´t get a bid. That doesn´t make this statement any more accurate.

¨its really a joke that we can't beat hardly any of the teams in the Big South.¨

Considering the source, I´ll refrain from commenting on the grammer............... oh wait, maybe I just did.

[Purple Haize]

You say we don´t win when it matters in football gmtm. Tell me, what are the games that don´t matter? From the time the BSC got it´s autobid, as things played out the only way we could have gotten that bid woud have been to go undefeated. All of those games mattered, not just the one a year we lost. We have won more games than anyone in BSC play over the last 5 years and have won or tied for the championship each of those years. I would say that not having a bid due to crazy 3 way tiebreakers, etc., is bizarre.

But if we had won the games we should and that matter we wouldn't have to worry about tie breakers.

My point was that they all mattered. Not just the ones we lost. The only way we would have gotten a bid the last 3 years would have been to win them all. We didn´t. neither did anyone else. The tiebreakers didn´t go our way and we didn´t get a bid. That doesn´t make this statement any more accurate.

¨its really a joke that we can't beat hardly any of the teams in the Big South.¨

Considering the source, I´ll refrain from commenting on the grammer............... oh wait, maybe I just did.

Since we didn't get the auto bid that means SOMEONE did which means someone, not us, won the games that needed to be won.

[olldflame]

If the statement were ¨Ït´s really a joke we can´t do what it takes to win more Big South championships and be in post season play more¨ I would take exception perhaps with the term ¨joke¨, but wouldn´t have much disagreement with the point. That´s not what he said. He said we can´t hardly beat any of the teams in the Big South in Football, MBB and BB.

[adam42381]

Considering the source, I´ll refrain from commenting on the grammer............... oh wait, maybe I just did.

[olldflame]

Considering the source, I´ll refrain from commenting on the grammer............... oh wait, maybe I just did.

I didn´t say anything about spelling.

[givemethemic]

You should consider the source. I'm more informed than you are and have better sources than you do. I'm sorry you haven't figured out the main point of my post yet. I'm sure if we had it your way you would be lobbying for Ken Karcher to still be the head football coach.

[olldflame]

You should consider the source. I'm more informed than you are and have better sources than you do. I'm sorry you haven't figured out the main point of my post yet. I'm sure if we had it your way you would be lobbying for Ken Karcher to still be the head football coach.

1) I am aware you have sources. It could not be more irrelevant to this discussion.
Our record against BSC opponents is not inside information. The fact that you have worked in the sports media business and have access to information that some of us don´t doesn´t mean you can make blatently false claims and not be called on them.

2) I think I do understand the point you were TRYING to make (not enough success in the form of post season play to match the resources expended), but it doesn´t help you make your point at all when you put it in the form of a statement that is totally inaccurate from the word go.

3) The statement about wanting Karcher back is just as ridiculus as the one about not ever beating anyone in the BSC. Firing him after giving him the big contract extensión was an incredibly gutsy thing for Doc to do, and the best thing that ever happened to our football program. I have never EVER said anything that would indicate otherwise.

[Purple Haize]

Um, wouldn't we have to MAKE the post season to have success?

[olldflame]

Um, wouldn't we have to MAKE the post season to have success?

In saying ¨success in the form of post season play¨ my intent was to define success, for purposes of this discussion, as playing in the post season. This was to differenciate it from ¨merely¨ winning a championship, which we have done 5 straight years in football with no post season bid to show for it.

[Purple Haize]

Um, wouldn't we have to MAKE the post season to have success?

In saying ¨success in the form of post season play¨ my intent was to define success, for purposes of this discussion, as playing in the post season. This was to differenciate it from ¨merely¨ winning a championship, which we have done 5 straight years in football with no post season bid to show for it.

We haven't been to the post season in football either.

[olldflame]

Um, wouldn't we have to MAKE the post season to have success?

In saying ¨success in the form of post season play¨ my intent was to define success, for purposes of this discussion, as playing in the post season. This was to differenciate it from ¨merely¨ winning a championship, which we have done 5 straight years in football with no post season bid to show for it.

We haven't been to the post season in football either.

Didn´t I just say that? ¨no post season bid to show for it¨? I am specifically saying that winning conference championships or cochampionships is not good enough if we can´t get a post season bid. The only thing I disagree with is this ....................

¨We can´t hardly beat any of the teams in the Big South¨

Mr Insider says I don´t get the point, but he hasn´t really told us what the point is. I can only speculate that his ¨sources¨have informed him that all those games we won are actually losses, because we didn´t win ¨when it mattered¨.

[Purple Haize]

There is a difference between 'winning when it mattered' and beating teams in the Big South. We have had limited success in one and 0 in the other

[olldflame]

There is a difference between 'winning when it mattered' and beating teams in the Big South. We have had limited success in one and 0 in the other

which is which?

[SuperJon]

For Toman? He's never won when it mattered and has actually lost when it mattered the most.

[BJWilliams]

olldflame and PH, you guys are going back and forth like a couple kids on the playground during recess...yeesh...