[rogers3]

You have to think Mall Management is happy to have them working there now. Increases visits to the food court for lunch, after-work shopping, etc...

Good for food vendors, shopping... I wouldn't bet on it.

I would bet on it. It will be MUCH more convenient for hundreds of workers. The only potential problem would be parking, but I think there is enough spots there to not cause a hardship for mall shoppers.

Other than the departments stores, which people will go to if necessary no matter where they work, there is no draw at our crappy mall. I doubt if Journeys or any of the other tacky teen stores will see any real bump in sales. The faster that something is developed on that site, the better. At this rate, our mall will end up like Crossroads mall in Roanoke did. History says that adding commercial/office space in a mall is not a positive. At least with a convention center/hotel, mall management can market the mall as a place where people from all over end up- a destination. Getting the same low paid LU staffers everyday doesn't encourage a company like The Gap to reopen their store.

[alabama24]

Getting the same low paid LU staffers everyday doesn't encourage a company like The Gap to reopen their store.

Who cares about the Gap? I didn't say that "high end" retailers would be drawn to the Mall. In that regard, you are right. The Mall is closer to the end of life… but I have also seen the Mall rejuvenated in the last year. TJ Maxx & Michaels craft store are new tenants. Yes, there will be LU shoppers at those places. Yes, there will be more shoppers there than if Sears was sitting empty. My wife, for example, doesn't like going to the mall. If she were to end up working there, she would likely be going to Michaels more often than AC Moore (where she goes now). She would go to the shoe stores in the mall rather than those near Target. She would likely get her hair done there, rather than other places in town. Simple convenience will cause a number of people to change their behavior patterns.

I love the idea of a new civic center at that location… but not with the mall… (unless it goes for an extreme makeover).

[bigsmooth]

Totally agree with Rogers that adding commercial space to a mall hurts it. The city and liberty should really push harder on the civic center and hotels. With these things breathing life into the mall would be easier.

[alabama24]

Totally agree with Rogers that adding commercial space to a mall hurts it.

I think you mean noncommercial space.

My question: Is it the "noncommercial" space that hurts a mall, or is it the decline of the mall that leads to "noncommercial" groups renting space at cut rate rents? I believe that more often than not, it is the later.

[ATrain]

Getting the same low paid LU staffers everyday doesn't encourage a company like The Gap to reopen their store.

Who cares about the Gap? I didn't say that "high end" retailers would be drawn to the Mall. In that regard, you are right. The Mall is closer to the end of life… but I have also seen the Mall rejuvenated in the last year. TJ Maxx & Michaels craft store are new tenants. Yes, there will be LU shoppers at those places. Yes, there will be more shoppers there than if Sears was sitting empty. My wife, for example, doesn't like going to the mall. If she were to end up working there, she would likely be going to Michaels more often than AC Moore (where she goes now). She would go to the shoe stores in the mall rather than those near Target. She would likely get her hair done there, rather than other places in town. Simple convenience will cause a number of people to change their behavior patterns.

I love the idea of a new civic center at that location… but not with the mall… (unless it goes for an extreme makeover).

Since when is The Gap "High End?" Its the middle brand...Old Navy is the low end and Banana Republic is the high end in that line of stores.

I agree that convenience will make people change their patterns. Unless there was one particular hair place or store that I felt extreme loyalty to, I'd opt for the most convenient one. Plus it'd mean less driving for the workers as well which saves on gasoline costs.

[adam42381]

Since when is The Gap "High End?" Its the middle brand...Old Navy is the low end and Banana Republic is the high end in that line of stores.

Exactly, and Banana Republic isn't really "high end" either. It's just the highest end of the GAP chain.

[Purple Haize]

Getting the same low paid LU staffers everyday doesn't encourage a company like The Gap to reopen their store.

Who cares about the Gap? I didn't say that "high end" retailers would be drawn to the Mall. In that regard, you are right. The Mall is closer to the end of life… but I have also seen the Mall rejuvenated in the last year. TJ Maxx & Michaels craft store are new tenants. Yes, there will be LU shoppers at those places. Yes, there will be more shoppers there than if Sears was sitting empty. My wife, for example, doesn't like going to the mall. If she were to end up working there, she would likely be going to Michaels more often than AC Moore (where she goes now). She would go to the shoe stores in the mall rather than those near Target. She would likely get her hair done there, rather than other places in town. Simple convenience will cause a number of people to change their behavior patterns.

I love the idea of a new civic center at that location… but not with the mall… (unless it goes for an extreme makeover).

Since when is The Gap "High End?" Its the middle brand...Old Navy is the low end and Banana Republic is the high end in that line of stores.

I agree that convenience will make people change their patterns. Unless there was one particular hair place or store that I felt extreme loyalty to, I'd opt for the most convenient one. Plus it'd mean less driving for the workers as well which saves on gasoline costs.

You said 'banana'

[alabama24]

Since when is The Gap "High End?"

I'm sure you're right. I wouldn't know. When OTHER people are shopping for me, it's Brooks Brothers. When I am shopping for me, its Belk & Costco.

[LUconn]

The Hartford Civic Center, now called the XL center or something, has a mall attached to it. It was always full of empty stores except the store that only sold Whalers merchandise. And then of course it obviously went away. I think it all depends on if people think of it as a mall or a CC. Since it's always been a mall here I would guess people would still think of it as one.

[rogers3]

I think we all agree... River Ridge's future is pretty dim. I wouldn't be surprised to see additional ownership changes in the next couple of years. as more retailers move to centers with better amenities and layouts. I don't fault LU for buying Sears, but it was probably a better draw than most stores. I bet that for daily traffic, the Red Lobster and Shaker's give the mall a good run for the money if you exclude the Regal.

[alabama24]

I think we all agree... River Ridge's future is pretty dim.

It's likely, but it doesn't have to be. Like I said before, it would need an "extreme makeover."

[rogers3]

I think we all agree... River Ridge's future is pretty dim.

It's likely, but it doesn't have to be. Like I said before, it would need an "extreme makeover."

True. Maybe we'll get some network interest!

[alabama24]

I remember the mall near my grandmother's house was kind of a dump. About 5-6 years ago, they mostly rebuilt the mall (it went from 1 story to 2) and the shops went more upscale (including Apple / Crate & Barrel / etc.).

[rogers3]

Crazier things have happened. Develop a convention center and then see the mall redeveloped... personally, I like that better than razing more land for new developments around Wards Rd and leaving decaying retail spaces littering the city. That being said, CarMax and another hotel (and then the attendant outparcels) in Wards Crossing West is the next thing happening, so I don't anticipate redevelopment for the time being

[JK37]

You said 'banana'

Beat me to it. And then there's all the stereotypes about fashion awareness.

[ATrain]

Who cares about the Gap? I didn't say that "high end" retailers would be drawn to the Mall. In that regard, you are right. The Mall is closer to the end of life… but I have also seen the Mall rejuvenated in the last year. TJ Maxx & Michaels craft store are new tenants. Yes, there will be LU shoppers at those places. Yes, there will be more shoppers there than if Sears was sitting empty. My wife, for example, doesn't like going to the mall. If she were to end up working there, she would likely be going to Michaels more often than AC Moore (where she goes now). She would go to the shoe stores in the mall rather than those near Target. She would likely get her hair done there, rather than other places in town. Simple convenience will cause a number of people to change their behavior patterns.

I love the idea of a new civic center at that location… but not with the mall… (unless it goes for an extreme makeover).

Since when is The Gap "High End?" Its the middle brand...Old Navy is the low end and Banana Republic is the high end in that line of stores.

I agree that convenience will make people change their patterns. Unless there was one particular hair place or store that I felt extreme loyalty to, I'd opt for the most convenient one. Plus it'd mean less driving for the workers as well which saves on gasoline costs.

You said 'banana' [/quote]

Does that make me a member of the Dark Side?

[Purple Haize]

It would look good,on your application

[carolinaflames]

Getting the same low paid LU staffers everyday doesn't encourage a company like The Gap to reopen their store.

Who cares about the Gap? I didn't say that "high end" retailers would be drawn to the Mall. In that regard, you are right. The Mall is closer to the end of life… but I have also seen the Mall rejuvenated in the last year. TJ Maxx & Michaels craft store are new tenants. Yes, there will be LU shoppers at those places. Yes, there will be more shoppers there than if Sears was sitting empty. My wife, for example, doesn't like going to the mall. If she were to end up working there, she would likely be going to Michaels more often than AC Moore (where she goes now). She would go to the shoe stores in the mall rather than those near Target. She would likely get her hair done there, rather than other places in town. Simple convenience will cause a number of people to change their behavior patterns.

I love the idea of a new civic center at that location… but not with the mall… (unless it goes for an extreme makeover).

Since when is The Gap "High End?" Its the middle brand...Old Navy is the low end and Banana Republic is the high end in that line of stores.

I agree that convenience will make people change their patterns. Unless there was one particular hair place or store that I felt extreme loyalty to, I'd opt for the most convenient one. Plus it'd mean less driving for the workers as well which saves on gasoline costs.

Agreed, convenience is a big plus. For that matter though, when have the call center staffers of LUO been "low paid"? Until about a year ago, most couldn't transfer out because of making too much. If anything it's a good draw for the mall. You're looking at a bunch of 22-27 year old full time employees who have a large chunk of disposable income, what with the majority not married or not having started a family yet.

[El Scorcho]

For that matter though, when have the call center staffers of LUO been "low paid"? Until about a year ago, most couldn't transfer out because of making too much. If anything it's a good draw for the mall. You're looking at a bunch of 22-27 year old full time employees who have a large chunk of disposable income, what with the majority not married or not having started a family yet.

Two things...

1. I don't think LUO employees are underpaid. I think they're probably paid decently for the positions they hold. However, I'm fairly certain none of them make much money. They're not exactly high-skill positions. Low paid is not equal to underpaid. That's all I'm saying. (Side note: I assume that no one who works at Liberty knows how much anyone else working at Liberty makes because it's strictly against HR policy to discuss salary information with other employees. It would be unethical to break such rules, right?)

2. A large chunk of disposable income? Your definition of large and mine are probably very different, but that's beside the fact that almost all of that group is trying to pay back the big student loans that got them to Liberty in the first place. I'm not saying they're all broke, but I'm doubting the kids working in LUO are throwing around a lot of cash.

[carolinaflames]

Yep you are absolutely right. I'm not speaking for anyone. Just giving general assumptions and no specifics based on nothing more than speculation. I didn't think general, speculative statements went against HR policy. Secondly, yes you're correct. It's not like there's millions of dollars floating in people's pockets. But outside of student loans, financial commitments are very low in that office, as people being generally budget conscious isn't very widespread, which is great for businesses.

[rogers3]

Agreed, convenience is a big plus. For that matter though, when have the call center staffers of LUO been "low paid"? Until about a year ago, most couldn't transfer out because of making too much. If anything it's a good draw for the mall. You're looking at a bunch of 22-27 year old full time employees who have a large chunk of disposable income, what with the majority not married or not having started a family yet.

Sounds like a stretch. If one can make ~10k more a year as an adjunct at LC without a terminal degree than a new PhD would make starting at Liberty, I have a hard time believing that staffers are not paid lower than say, a school teacher. I know plenty of new school teachers and they certainly don't make enough to change the fortunes of stores in the mall. Liberty offers many locals decent jobs and their benefits are second to none, but they certainly aren't known for their pay.

[badger74]

Did a little research on RR mall. According to CBL's annual report for last year the mall shops do $276 PSF in annual sales. Not great but not terrible either. Sales were flat year over year 2010>2011. With the recovery they should do a little better but the impact of Sears might offset that. Hard to say right now. Before the recession they were doing about $350 PSF which is very solid. I have seen dying malls and they do well under $200 PSF. RR needs some TLC but it's not dead either. Still think they made a mistake letting go of the Sears site. LU paid a pretty high price for it ($62 PSF) and that might have scared them off.

[Purple Haize]

Did a little research on RR mall. According to CBL's annual report for last year the mall shops do $276 PSF in annual sales. Not great but not terrible either. Sales were flat year over year 2010>2011. With the recovery they should do a little better but the impact of Sears might offset that. Hard to say right now. Before the recession they were doing about $350 PSF which is very solid. I have seen dying malls and they do well under $200 PSF. RR needs some TLC but it's not dead either. Still think they made a mistake letting go of the Sears site. LU paid a pretty high price for it ($62 PSF) and that might have scared them off.

What recovery

[rogers3]

Did a little research on RR mall. According to CBL's annual report for last year the mall shops do $276 PSF in annual sales. Not great but not terrible either. Sales were flat year over year 2010>2011. With the recovery they should do a little better but the impact of Sears might offset that. Hard to say right now. Before the recession they were doing about $350 PSF which is very solid. I have seen dying malls and they do well under $200 PSF. RR needs some TLC but it's not dead either. Still think they made a mistake letting go of the Sears site. LU paid a pretty high price for it ($62 PSF) and that might have scared them off.

The stores at the mall certainly aren't drawing the folks with the money in. All it takes is a couple of walks around and a look at the stores to see this. That being said, I know that you are right in regards to a mall turning the corning and becoming a destination again; I just have a hard time believing that this management is interested in that. They have renovated or added on to Valley View in Roanoke twice since they took over (~100,000sf lifestyle center was added to one side 4 years ago), and have never undertaken any kind of real improvement in Lynchburg. I guess they did just improve a bit of the facade for TJ Maxx, but do discount stores really improve the mall? Other stores that don't seem to add much include Jo-Ann Fabrics and several locally owned shops that took the place of tenants that appeal to a wider range of shoppers.

[badger74]

Did a little research on RR mall. According to CBL's annual report for last year the mall shops do $276 PSF in annual sales. Not great but not terrible either. Sales were flat year over year 2010>2011. With the recovery they should do a little better but the impact of Sears might offset that. Hard to say right now. Before the recession they were doing about $350 PSF which is very solid. I have seen dying malls and they do well under $200 PSF. RR needs some TLC but it's not dead either. Still think they made a mistake letting go of the Sears site. LU paid a pretty high price for it ($62 PSF) and that might have scared them off.

What recovery

My part of the US is booming again as is most of the West. Home prices are skyrocketing due to low supply and high demand. The roads are again clogged with traffic. My commute time is back to pre-recession levels which is a good indicator. I understand the recovery is spotty with tech and oil patch areas doing the best. Heavy manu will lag as usual. Also smaller cities like L with less diversity in jobs may take longer--but the trends are certainly upward.
As to why CBL has not invested as much in L as in Roanoke--maybe all the new stores on wards Road scared them a bit. Or it's just not a priority market for them. They have 2 malls in my old town of Madison, WI that were dominant in a very good market and they took 20 years to do anything to update them.