[Purple Haize]

As has already been said, VA isnt a hotbed of significant high school basketball talent (football is another story). Having grown up in VA my entire life, Ive seen ebbs and flows as far as talent goes, especially where Im from (Hampton Roads/Tidewater whatever you want to call it). Im sure that can be said in other areas as well but bottom line is that you dont see college coaches beating the doors down to get kids from here. Would it be nice if we got one or two kids from here? certainly, but you arent going to make or break a roster based on that. If there was a choice between an average player from VA or an above average to star player from say, Texas, Id want the kid from Texas.

If its close and in your scenario the talent appears close you take the local kid every time. Again because they bring more than talent to the table

[BJWilliams]

I can see your point if the talent is close but as I said, if you have a star player (Like top 150 or maybe just on the outside) from California or Texas or Florida, Id take him over an average kid from around here. that said, I do agree that taking one or two players from this area would be a nice idea, but I would hope that if he is an average to below average talent, that you would want a coach that can "coach up" players like that.

[logic]

Cannot compare men's and women's basketball. Not even close. As a male student I can tell you the rules are awful at times and you're fighting a major uphill battle to get talented male basketball players here, even if they are strong Christians. Make my bed? White glove check? Mandatory hall meetings every week? Women love that kind of stuff, men do not. Why do you think it is so hard for us to recruit even general male students to Liberty let alone male athletes?

Not fair at all to say "women have done this, therefore men should do this" when it is much, much easier to recruit female talent here.

These are not excuses, just truths. Anyone who thinks recruiting males here is a piece of cake...well, if you're going to hate on Dale Layer over it, better hate on the rest of admissions and general student recruitment, as they haven't had much luck either. Males to Liberty is a tough one, they don't want to
be told to make their bed, where to be and when, etc., whereas women don't mind at all. Gender stereotypes IMHO are God-given to a certain degree, women love to be given instruction, for the most part, while men do not.

[Purple Haize]

Cannot compare men's and women's basketball. Not even close. As a male student I can tell you the rules are awful at times and you're fighting a major uphill battle to get talented male basketball players here, even if they are strong Christians. Make my bed? White glove check? Mandatory hall meetings every week? Women love that kind of stuff, men do not. Why do you think it is so hard for us to recruit even general male students to Liberty let alone male athletes?

Not fair at all to say "women have done this, therefore men should do this" when it is much, much easier to recruit female talent here.

These are not excuses, just truths. Anyone who thinks recruiting males here is a piece of cake...well, if you're going to hate on Dale Layer over it, better hate on the rest of admissions and general student recruitment, as they haven't had much luck either. Males to Liberty is a tough one, they don't want to
be told to make their bed, where to be and when, etc., whereas women don't mind at all. Gender stereotypes IMHO are God-given to a certain degree, women love to be given instruction, for the most part, while men do not.

Wow. look who woke up and turned into the misogynistic negative Nelly

[logic]

Not negative, I just don't think it's fair to Layer, or any other coach in our D1 men's history, to say the women have been to the Sweet 16, to the tournament every year, and as such the men should too. It is a completely different animal. Notice that no men's coach has had Green's success. Having said that, I am not downplaying his incredible success here, I'm simply saying you can't compare the two sports.

[jbock13]

I get your point, but other men's teams have been competitive without needing excuses.

[olldflame]

A lot of what logic is saying is spot on. We could not have replicated in MBB what we have done in WBB, even if we had been able to hire John Wooden as our coach (which believe it or not was a hot rumor in the 80s). Carey Green is a good coach, but John Wooden he is not as evidenced by 20 turnovers a game year after year and nothing done to fix it. It is a simple fact that a much higher percentage of the quality female prospects than male are attracted to the LIberty experience. Combine that with our resources and a good coach and you dominate a weak conference for a decade and a half.

[ballcoach15]

VaGolf, that's an excellent post above. I agree fully.

[adam42381]

Make my bed? White glove check? Mandatory hall meetings every week? Women love that kind of stuff, men do not.

Males to Liberty is a tough one, they don't want to be told to make their bed, where to be and when, etc., whereas women don't mind at all. Gender stereotypes IMHO are God-given to a certain degree, women love to be given instruction, for the most part, while men do not.

You must not know too many women.

[Purple Haize]

Make my bed? White glove check? Mandatory hall meetings every week? Women love that kind of stuff, men do not.

Males to Liberty is a tough one, they don't want to be told to make their bed, where to be and when, etc., whereas women don't mind at all. Gender stereotypes IMHO are God-given to a certain degree, women love to be given instruction, for the most part, while men do not.

You must not know too many women.

logic not knowing many women? surely you jest. My man has GOTTA be a playa

Also, to tread delicately, there are certain types of interpersonal relationships that are more accepted at other Universities that are frowned upon at LU. And these types of relationships on a general level are more prevalent with female athletes than male athletes, thus limiting the pool of players available. (Did I explain that OK ATrain?)

[BJWilliams]

logic does raise a fair point...to add to it somewhat, I lived on campus for quite a while and whenever open dorms would roll around, Id go visit a friend of mine or two in the female dorms and theyd smell wonderful, there would be cookies and punch or light hors douvres out, but as I said first, they smelled very fresh. then Id go back to my dorm and itd smell nice too but only because the guys cleaned the place up for one of the few times in the semester outside of white glove checks. It smelled like a sweaty locker room most weeks. There were a couple quads where you practically had to call in a hazmat team to do room checks during convocation.

I say all that to say that guys tend to not keep their rooms as clean as girls do and to have to practically keep your room to military standards (I wont even tell you about what some of the tactical officers would do to rooms that didnt pass inspection in military school), they like being able to keep their personal space how they see fit.

[logic]

I get your point, but other men's teams have been competitive without needing excuses.

And then individual sports are in another category all together. One guy winning an NCAA title can get you a top 15 finish in T&F. You need a team in basketball and you better be 8-10 deep. Golf last year is the best argument you could make, but then I would argue from a demographics standpoint that it is easier to recruit golfers to southern Virginia, to horse country, than it is elite high school basketball talent.

I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm not saying we can't recruit top 150 players each and every year. I believe it can be done and should be done. I am simply cautioning everyone that it is much, much harder on the men's side.

When you were a youth did you enjoy and look forward to your parents nagging you to make your bed and clean your room? You're thankful for it now, but hated it at the time. These 17 year old boys we're trying to recruit...they aren't much different than many of you at that age (home schoolers excluded).

Disclaimer: This is not a call to relax the rules. I do believe however that getting more males here will require creative solutions. The common areas in the new dorms for males and females is a step in the right direction. Adapt or die, and with more women going to college than men, getting more of that smaller slice of pie is a challenge that goes far beyond basketball.

[PAmedic]

logic does raise a fair point...to add to it somewhat, I lived on campus for quite a while and whenever open dorms would roll around, Id go visit a friend of mine or two in the female dorms and theyd smell wonderful, there would be cookies and punch or light hors douvres out, but as I said first, they smelled very fresh. then Id go back to my dorm and itd smell nice too but only because the guys cleaned the place up for one of the few times in the semester outside of white glove checks. It smelled like a sweaty locker room most weeks. There were a couple quads where you practically had to call in a hazmat team to do room checks during convocation.

I say all that to say that guys tend to not keep their rooms as clean as girls do and to have to practically keep your room to military standards (I wont even tell you about what some of the tactical officers would do to rooms that didnt pass inspection in military school), they like being able to keep their personal space how they see fit.

read and acknowledged

[bballfan84]

recruiting top 150 players HA..lets start with top 300 and work our way up

[JK37]

BJ, you're not giving me any credit for having finger foods and cookies and (root) beers every Open Dorm Night. I remember you came by for a brew or two.

[jbock13]

All I remember is about a year ago I made a point similar to logic's about basketball recruiting and I got jumped on. But not surprising. Not that I care enough to find the conversation. Not that I much care either. Carry on.

[ballcoach15]

We need to recruit better players, simple as that. Need to recruit bigger, stronger and more athletic kids. Some nights we look like a good high school team playing a college team.

To answer the original question, are we missing mid major boat ?

YES

[BJWilliams]

jbock and logic did raise a very true underlying point ballcoach and that is the fact that the way LU is structured is going to be something that any recruit is going to consider. We dont want to be another one of those schools that recruits "bigger, faster, stronger" but we end up with kids that make regular appearances on the weekly police reports and we are having more than a once in a blue moon "Asa discussion" on the boards. Doesnt mean we look for a bunch of perfect little angels per se, but we dont want to forget the "If its Christian" in the search for "...it ought to be better"

[logic]

And again it goes beyond basketball. We're having problems getting qualified males to come here, period. Look at resident admissions for further examples. This is a nationwide problem that is not specific to Liberty, though it is amplified here because of our unique structure and social life. Again this is not a call to relax the rules, but it will require creative solutions to get our enrollment back to 50/50.

Where have all the cowboys gone?

[Purple Haize]

The fact you just referenced a Paula Cole song goes a long way to answering your own question.

Also, why does admission have to be 50/50?

[LUconn]

It doesn't. The fact that it's not is a perk in itself.

[jbock13]

We're having problems getting qualified males to come here, period.

Honestly, that really doesn't bother me too much

(all kidding aside, I actually agree with you).

[ballcoach15]

I think there are lots of good kids out there in "recruiting land" that could come to LU and not be on police blotter.(in every sport). We have had them before. Most of our basketball players are borderline D1 recruits. hate to say that, but it's true.

[logic]

The fact you just referenced a Paula Cole song goes a long way to answering your own question.

Also, why does admission have to be 50/50?

Paula Cole was just for you, Haize, I knew you would get it.

If you don't want male sports like wrestling to get cut or individuals from other male sports to be cut you better hope we can get back to 50/50 or even a higher % of males. Our athletic department male/female ratio must mirror the student body. Our women's teams are overcrowded and we have to cut males we need. Why? 52/48 student body. This is not the fault of admissions as we've tried to correct it, but simply cannot and will not lower our admissions standards just to let more men in. It is hard to find a few good men these days.

I blame it on the lack of a strong male role model in the majority of homes. When you filter out the emotionally absent fathers, workaholic fathers, the divorced fathers, the addicted fathers, the beta males, the girly men, and those that simply won't step up, it is a wonder young men grow up with even somewhat of an idea of true masculinity at all.

Gone are the days of Teddy Roosevelt, where men were proud to wear two hats. One, the rough rider, rugged frontiersman who was handy with the ax, steady with the rifle, and was "stronger than a Bull Moose.." the other a statesman, a true warrior poet versed in the classics and with a personal library needing two rooms in the estate to hold all the books.

In the old days men kept journals, read books, and engaged in what has been called the hardest work there is - consecutive, sustained thought, all the while working their bodies into fine physical specimens. Today we have 17% of kids who are clinically obese, an obsessive video game culture, and an entire generation of men who have prolonged adolescence well into their late twenties.


Proverbs 17:6. But for how many is that true?

[Purple Haize]

The fact you just referenced a Paula Cole song goes a long way to answering your own question.

Also, why does admission have to be 50/50?

Paula Cole was just for you, Haize, I knew you would get it.

If you don't want male sports like wrestling to get cut or individuals from other male sports to be cut you better hope we can get back to 50/50 or even a higher % of males.

I blame it on the lack of a strong male role model in the majority of homes. When you filter out the emotionally absent fathers, workaholic fathers, the divorced fathers, the addicted fathers, the beta males, the girly men, and those that simply won't step up, it is a wonder young men grow up with even somewhat of an idea of true masculinity at all.

Gone are the days of Teddy Roosevelt, where men were proud to wear two hats. One, the rough rider, rugged frontiersman who was handy with the ax, steady with the rifle, and was "stronger than a Bull Moose.." the other a statesman, a true warrior poet versed in the classics and with a personal library needing two rooms in the estate to hold all the books.

The only good statement you had was 'lack of a strong male role model in the majority of homes'. The rest is a little distorted. Not all men are the same. I have friends with double PhD's who couldn't lift 50 lbs. I have a brother in law who isn't the smartest knife but is strong as an ox. But according to you, neither of these can be good, male role models. Also, working 80 hours a week or being divorced does not make you a poor father. The only 'bad' father type on your list are the last ones 'those that simply won't step up.'
Cutting Men's programs has more todo with 'sins of the past' ( yes, we are looking at you Football) than the present.
Your stat on childhood obesity may actually be low as well
Finally, with eReaders and computers you probably won't see too many people collecting huge hard bound book libraries any more.

As for your Scripture, I would look at the whole 'judge not' and 'speck vs plank' thing before you wax poetic about parenthood and masculinity again .