[LUconn]

So anyway let's keep things on subject here:

I agree with some folks here in not being very happy with the way this program has been for the last 8 years or so. It has been a constant flux of coaches and players. We've had too few 4 year players and even fewer good 4 year players. I feel like Layer knows he's running out of time and that's why he got so many jucos for this year. It's not working out so far but then again, all he has to do, is do well in conference and win some tournament games to be considered successful at this point in program history. I don't know if that 1 year of national attention got everybody thinking that we deserve to be upsetting top 25 teams or if you're just trying to have psuedo high standards for the sake of "setting the bar high". But let's not pretend that the aftermath of the magnificent 7 did not devastate the program. And Dale came here to pick up the pieces. Maybe he's had enough time. In fact I'd say he's had enough time to be showing us something and it's just not happening for him. His past teams have been very hard nosed and played hard on defense but just haven't had much offensive skill. This years doesn't seem to have either but it's still early. I just don't know if more program upheaval and starting over again is the answer. But on the other hand, if Dale's not the guy than we're all wasting our time. It's a tough call.

[Chippy]

RMK himself said the team he had said "pass to me, shoot the 3, play no D". Layer's team plays with more aggressiveness but are less talented. Nonetheless this team is playing (right now) without all their horses. We need to see how we're doing when the 3 bigs all come back, probably when conference play starts or around the first of the year.

[PatrickKelly]

Thanks for the good conversation. I look at the big picture and that is are we headed in the right direction and I think it's a resounding no at this point. Basketball teams can be turned around in a short time period. It doesn't take a 4 year rebuilding project.

[thepostman]

College coaches should get 4 years to turn a program around. This is that 4th year. If at year end its the same old thing then we need to head in a different direction.

that has been my position all along, and won't change.

Same goes with any of our coaches. College coaches should get 4 years to prove themselves, especially at our level.

[BJWilliams]

4 or 5 years really...because that is about how long it takes to cycle out the recruits from the previous coach and be working with their own players

[jbock13]

I just look at the lack of four year recruits. Some freshmen can take the reigns but many cant, you've got to coach them. But with four years, if groomed correctly, they will have the skills and maturity to lead come their senior year. It also builds a working relationship between coaches and players. When you sign nothing but JUCO'S you have no chemistry. Everyone cannot adjust to others playing styles as easily. You also have to replace JUCO'S every year or two, instead of recruiting a kid to grow for two years, and take the lead for his junior and senior season.

I'm not a basketball coaching expert by any means but it's just how I see it.

[Purple Haize]

4 or 5 years really...because that is about how long it takes to cycle out the recruits from the previous coach and be working with their own players

Disagree when it comes to basketball. You should be able to show improvement in your second year third at most.
Year One- you take what you are given. You could be loaded or barren. Mike Davis was loaded at IU. Tom Crean, not so much
Year Two - you will lose about 1/3 of the players from the year before or more. You bring in as many of your guys as you can, but still have some issues like Year One
Year Three - you should have 2/3 of your roster or more turned over. You will have your guys but they will still be young. They may show flashes of brilliance and complete idiocy all within a 2 game span.
By the end of year 3 you should have a REALLY good idea what direction your team is headed.

Addendum - unless you are Calipari and buy...errrr recruit NBA talent every year. Thus making a contender but not a program.

[TDDance234]

I think Haize hit the nail on the head.

There just isn't an indication to where this team is headed. The offense is a complete mess, we have few playmakers, and players up and leaving in the middle of the season. We should be showing some signs of improvement - but it's getting worse. That's on Layer, IMO. Like I said in a previous post... he's a great man and probably one of the best assistant coaches in the country. But as a head coach? He's been a colossal failure.

[g-webb1994]

Layer is a class act. I fully understand the frustration level with your ample resources. I know you have to deal with athletes, and students in general for that matter, leaving after finding out Liberty is not their cup of tea per se, but the turnover in your hoops program over the past few years is way too heavy, even worse than ours down here, although I really believe Holtmann has turned a corner and if we can keep the injury bug away we may surprise in conference play this year.

[bballfan84]

I think Haize hit the nail on the head.

There just isn't an indication to where this team is headed. The offense is a complete mess, we have few playmakers, and players up and leaving in the middle of the season. We should be showing some signs of improvement - but it's getting worse. That's on Layer, IMO. Like I said in a previous post... he's a great man and probably one of the best assistant coaches in the country. But as a head coach? He's been a colossal failure.

wow colossal failure..those are pretty strong words and I think you are being a little harsh..lets be a little patient and wait for the big south games to start

[lynchburgwildcats]

College coaches should get 4 years to turn a program around. This is that 4th year. If at year end its the same old thing then we need to head in a different direction.

that has been my position all along, and won't change.

Same goes with any of our coaches. College coaches should get 4 years to prove themselves, especially at our level.

I generally agree with this. But sometimes it's obvious when a mistake has been made, and there is zero reason to allow a mistake to hang around any longer than necessary.

[bballfan84]

regardless he is in his 4th year of a 7 year agreement so if they want to cut him loose it will be pretty costly for Liberty..buckle up we got three more years....

[olldflame]

regardless he is in his 4th year of a 7 year agreement so if they want to cut him loose it will be pretty costly for Liberty..buckle up we got three more years....

We´re getting ready to spend millions to go FBS in football. I really don´t think having to pay off a couple of years of Layer´s salary will keep us from making a change if it is decided that is what is needed. I´m sure we have spent more than that on the new basketball practice facility, which is a waste of money IMHO if we don´t have the right coach.

[jmdickens]

This is the ultimate choke jobs in terms of losses in the NCAA tourney with talent(Calshady) vs. coaching(Huggins)

2010-UK 66 vs. WVU 73
UK

DeAndre Liggins-2nd Rnd pick 2010
Eric Bledsoe-1st Rnd pick 2010
DeMarcus Cousins-1st Rnd pick 2010
Darrius Miller-2nd Rnd pick 2012
Daniel Orton-1st Rnd pick 2010
John Wall-1st Rnd pick 2010
Patrick Patterson-1st Rnd pick 2010
Josh Harrellson-2nd Rnd pick 2011

West Virginia

Da'sean Butler-2nd Rnd pick 2010
Devin Ebanks-2nd Rnd pick 2010
Kevin Jones-NBDL 2012
Wellington Smith-NBDL 2010
Casey Mitchell-NBDL 2011-1min
Darryl Bryant-NBDL 2012-DNP/hurt

[lynchburgwildcats]

This is the ultimate choke jobs in terms of losses in the NCAA tourney with talent(Calshady) vs. coaching(Huggins)

2010-UK 66 vs. WVU 73
UK

DeAndre Liggins-2nd Rnd pick 2010
Eric Bledsoe-1st Rnd pick 2010
DeMarcus Cousins-1st Rnd pick 2010
Darrius Miller-2nd Rnd pick 2012
Daniel Orton-1st Rnd pick 2010
John Wall-1st Rnd pick 2010
Patrick Patterson-1st Rnd pick 2010
Josh Harrellson-2nd Rnd pick 2011

West Virginia

Da'sean Butler-2nd Rnd pick 2010
Devin Ebanks-2nd Rnd pick 2010
Kevin Jones-NBDL 2012
Wellington Smith-NBDL 2010
Casey Mitchell-NBDL 2011-1min
Darryl Bryant-NBDL 2012-DNP/hurt

How many first and second round tournament exits does Huggins have? Fourteen times in 27 seasons. That's pathetic for a so-called "great" coach. That's Rick Barnes type territory. Calipari has done it just four times in 21 seasons.

[jmdickens]

This is the ultimate choke jobs in terms of losses in the NCAA tourney with talent(Calshady) vs. coaching(Huggins)

2010-UK 66 vs. WVU 73
UK

DeAndre Liggins-2nd Rnd pick 2010
Eric Bledsoe-1st Rnd pick 2010
DeMarcus Cousins-1st Rnd pick 2010
Darrius Miller-2nd Rnd pick 2012
Daniel Orton-1st Rnd pick 2010
John Wall-1st Rnd pick 2010
Patrick Patterson-1st Rnd pick 2010
Josh Harrellson-2nd Rnd pick 2011

West Virginia

Da'sean Butler-2nd Rnd pick 2010
Devin Ebanks-2nd Rnd pick 2010
Kevin Jones-NBDL 2012
Wellington Smith-NBDL 2010
Casey Mitchell-NBDL 2011-1min
Darryl Bryant-NBDL 2012-DNP/hurt

How many first and second round tournament exits does Huggins have? Fourteen times in 27 seasons. That's pathetic for a so-called "great" coach. That's Rick Barnes type territory. Calipari has done it just four times in 21 seasons.

Sounds like you are still butt-hurt over this loss as well. I say this as a UNC fan, UK/KU/UNC/Duke can win only when they have the most talent on the court and a little luck is thrown their way. I wanted a UK/UNC re-match last year in the title. You seriously have issues to try and deny all the the accusations and shady dealings that have followed Cal since UMASS. You remind of BJ defending LU blindly or the GOP supporting a liberal candidate as long as he plays on their team. Lighten up.

[lynchburgwildcats]

Calipari has exited in the first two rounds of the NCAA Tournament in 19% of his seasons. That's the lowest ratio of any major conference coach with at least 10 tournament appearances since the tournament expanded to 64 teams. And Calipari has done it for all but three years at freaking UMass and Memphis, hasn't had the benefit of being at a top flight school like Duke, UNC, Kansas, Syracuse, etc. for nearly his entire career.

[lynchburgwildcats]

This is the ultimate choke jobs in terms of losses in the NCAA tourney with talent(Calshady) vs. coaching(Huggins)

2010-UK 66 vs. WVU 73
UK

DeAndre Liggins-2nd Rnd pick 2010
Eric Bledsoe-1st Rnd pick 2010
DeMarcus Cousins-1st Rnd pick 2010
Darrius Miller-2nd Rnd pick 2012
Daniel Orton-1st Rnd pick 2010
John Wall-1st Rnd pick 2010
Patrick Patterson-1st Rnd pick 2010
Josh Harrellson-2nd Rnd pick 2011

West Virginia

Da'sean Butler-2nd Rnd pick 2010
Devin Ebanks-2nd Rnd pick 2010
Kevin Jones-NBDL 2012
Wellington Smith-NBDL 2010
Casey Mitchell-NBDL 2011-1min
Darryl Bryant-NBDL 2012-DNP/hurt

How many first and second round tournament exits does Huggins have? Fourteen times in 27 seasons. That's pathetic for a so-called "great" coach. That's Rick Barnes type territory. Calipari has done it just four times in 21 seasons.

Sounds like you are still butt-hurt over this loss as well. I say this as a UNC fan, UK/KU/UNC/Duke can win only when they have the most talent on the court and a little luck is thrown their way. I wanted a UK/UNC re-match last year in the title. You seriously have issues to try and deny all the the accusations and shady dealings that have followed Cal since UMASS. You remind of BJ defending LU blindly or the GOP supporting a liberal candidate as long as he plays on their team. Lighten up.

Show me proof he did anything. If you can show me proof then I will admit it. Accusations mean nothing without proof. That's all I ask. Until someone does it, I will assume what the NCAA said in both the Camby and Rose situations - Calipari had nothing to do it.

[jmdickens]

Show me proof he did anything. If you can show me proof then I will admit it. Accusations mean nothing without proof. That's all I ask. Until someone does it, I will assume what the NCAA said in both the Camby and Rose situations - Calipari had nothing to do it.

With your reply, I ask one question to clarify your conclusion. Did Butch Davis do anything wrong at UNC regarding the football program and NCAA violations? This is only an attempt to see your logic or your blindness, so think before posting.

[thepostman]

College coaches should get 4 years to turn a program around. This is that 4th year. If at year end its the same old thing then we need to head in a different direction.

that has been my position all along, and won't change.

Same goes with any of our coaches. College coaches should get 4 years to prove themselves, especially at our level.

I generally agree with this. But sometimes it's obvious when a mistake has been made, and there is zero reason to allow a mistake to hang around any longer than necessary.

Of course. There is always exceptions to the rule.

[Purple Haize]

Calipari has exited in the first two rounds of the NCAA Tournament in 19% of his seasons. That's the lowest ratio of any major conference coach with at least 10 tournament appearances since the tournament expanded to 64 teams. And Calipari has done it for all but three years at freaking UMass and Memphis, hasn't had the benefit of being at a top flight school like Duke, UNC, Kansas, Syracuse, etc. for nearly his entire career.

Does that include his vacated wins? Or do you just not count those as appearances? Also with the talent Calipari invests in he should always make at least the Sweet 16

[LUconn]

stop with the Calipari talk before I have to move this jenker to the non-LU forum. Is Calipari/UK the new RD?

[jmdickens]

stop with the Calipari talk before I have to move this jenker to the non-LU forum. Is Calipari/UK the new RD?

Both bring out the worst in basketball, so why should it move?

[LUconn]

because shuck is just trying to ruin every discussion by arguing something completely unrelated. And nobody can resist arguing with him.

[jmdickens]

because shuck is just trying to ruin every discussion by arguing something completely unrelated. And nobody can resist arguing with him.

"Don't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."-Mark Twain.

TRUTH!