If you want to talk ASUN smack or ramble ad nauseum about your favorite pro or major college teams, this is the place to let it rip.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

By rogue_nine9
Registration Days
#412240
I can't see Virginia Tech leaving the ACC for the SEC while Frank Beamer and Jim Weaver (AD) are still there. They seem to be very committed to the ACC and as a VT/ACC fan, I think we're pretty committed to the ACC for the foreseeable future. I can't really see any ACC teams other than Florida State and Clemson wanting to leave. The SEC isn't going to take either of them because Florida and South Carolina don't want a second SEC school in their state. The Big 12 is a possibility, especially for Florida State, but I don't think they'd be as quick to jump there as to the SEC.
User avatar
By jbock13
Registration Days Posts
#412308
I really don't understand what's so complicated about this. I played two years of NCAA Basketball 10 as Liberty. Second year, the MAAC invited me. Third year, now I'm in the Big East. So what's taking us so long. Dang that Jeff Barber :lol:

Oh and I beat Ohio State as a 15 seed in the first round. But nobody cares.
By logic
#412317
Let me return some sanity to this thread.

1. Maryland and Rutgers to the Big Ten is a no brainer (Big Ten pays out 25 million per school and more so now that DC/NYC markets are on board)
2. Penn State leaving the Big Ten is absurd and a laughable proposition at best (see above)
3. UCONN to the ACC is a done deal and will be leaked soon (I can't back this up)
4. No idea how this will affect us..Hoping it will (*prayers*)


Carry on.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#412370
Cider Jim wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:West Virginia to the ACC :D
:vomit
I thought the ACC wanted to strengthen its academics, not invite another cow college. :dontgetit
Hey. They have a Med School!
By Humble_Opinion
Registration Days Posts
#412424
Purple Haize wrote:
logic wrote:Let me return some sanity to this thread

Oh my. :rofl work has been stressful. I needed a good laugh.
I was hoping someone laughed at that... No offence to you logic. I like your charisma and overall affinity for LU Athletics as it pertains to a potential move-up. But, you jump on every shift in the FBS as the opening for LU.
User avatar
By Cider Jim
Registration Days Posts
#412455
Purple Haize wrote:Hey. They have a Med School!
Yea, my second cousin went to dental school there, and another cousin's husband taught in their Pharm. School. I could make a joke about WV and teeth/meth labs, but since they're my kin, I'll leave it alone.
:nonono
User avatar
By SumItUp
Registration Days Posts
#412456
Cider Jim wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:Hey. They have a Med School!
Yea, my second cousin went to dental school there, and another cousin's husband taught in their Pharm. School. I could make a joke about WV and teeth/meth labs, but since they're my kin, I'll leave it alone.
:nonono
I thought you were moving toward a WV/cousin joke
By logic
#412822
Sly Fox wrote:Once you get over the shock, you will find the Big Ten to be an entertaining league to follow. Just expect everything to be covered in rust.


Thoughts on the following maps and facts, Sly?


1. Population density..still ruled by the Big Ten -


http://modernsurvivalblog.com/wp-conten ... e-mile.jpg


2. Median income by county. Big Ten well ahead of the Southwest and the Sun Belt.

http://www.maxmasnick.com/media/2011-11 ... _large.png


3. Big Ten Media Markets and their national ranking..four out of the top 8 and 5 of 11 isn't bad -

1. NYC
3. Chicago
4. Philadelphia
8. DC
11. Detroit


4. The rumor that the "rustbelt" is losing people is false. Michigan was the only state to lose people from 2000-2010. The Big Ten region isn't gaining people as fast as the southwest, but it isn't losing people either -

http://unews.utah.edu/wp-content/upload ... Change.jpg


5. But who is moving to the southwest?


http://www.raconline.org/racmaps/mapfiles/hispanic.jpg


6. Where is the money?


http://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2007/oct/ ... 091_05.gif

http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_poverty.gif

http://www.ncsociology.org/sociationtod ... age002.jpg




The Big Ten is as relevant today as it ever was, and the fact that each member school receives a 25 million dollar payout (highest in the country) is a testament to the financial security of Big Ten country. You may call it the Rust Belt, but financially it is still better off than the southwest and the sunbelt. Add NYC and DC markets to the Big Ten Network and not only do you have a lot more eyeballs on the screens, you have an extremely affluent market as well, and I would think that the TV types would look at demographics and median income levels just as closely as they would total TV sets.
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#412826
Logic - We often agree on issues but on this one you are using skewed data to prop up your position.

1. Population Density? Seriously? You want to show population based on a county-by-county map? Yeah, there is more wide open spaces in Texas than New Hampshire.

2. Median Income? You do realize that $50k in San Antonio is worth more than $150k in NYC. Cost of living index makes this point moot. Just because a portion of the country has over-inflated costs doesn't mean that they are any healthier from a financial perspective.

3. Media Markets - Before NYC & DC came to town this was especially ugly. But if you believe that Rutgers delivers NYC and Maryland delivers DC then you believe that Philly is really a Big Ten town too. Come on, college football in most major markets are a complete afterthought in relation to the NFL. There are a few exceptions but MSP is not a big Golden Gophers football market. I'll give you Chicago (which has a higher proportion of Golden Domer fans than Illini) & Detroit as legit arguments. But the further south you head, the bigger deal college football in their sports landscape. South of the Mason-Dixon line more colleges truly deliver their markets.

4. Rustbelt isn't losing fans? Even Jim Delaney smirks at that assertion. Those are 2000-2010 numbers and if you consider stagnancy and a heavy influx of immigrants to avoid falling into the red a sign of Rust Belt stability then I don't have much to offer. Louisiana, Mississippi & Alabama were battered by Katrina & Rita forcing hundreds of thousands to move because their homes & jobs were washed away. Otherwise, growth across the South & Southwest is undeniable in relation to the Rust Belt.

5. Who is moving to the southwest? The best I can tell from that map is that there is an implication that Southwest growth is based on Hispanic immigration? Here's a news flash. The Southwest was part of Mexico long before annexation. As a result, Southwest states have always had a huge Hispanic population. My wife's family has been in Texas for several hundred years. I'm not sure what that has to do with the price of beans in regard to population growth. The vast majority of Hispanic growth in the Southwest has been from Mexican-Americans whose families have been citizens for more generations than many of Italian 7 French ancestry. The facts are the vast majority of people moving to the Southwest are coming primarily from the Rust Belt & California because of job opportunities (right to work states) and lower cost of living. My hometown is booming and it has nothing to do with immigration. It has to do with economics.

6. Where is the money? Again with the county maps? The vast majority of growth & opportunity is in urban areas. Seeing what is occurring out in the desert or swamp has little impact on anything in regard to conference realignment.

For the record, I actually was complimenting the Big Ten in my most if you look at it properly. Yeah, the Rust Belt is a lousy place from an economic forecasting position. But there is still plenty of opportunity to be had.
User avatar
By jbock13
Registration Days Posts
#412838
Wait, logic uses skewed data? :shock:

I never could have thought...

One way to look at the shape of the country is from census 2010. Look where states gained seats in congress, and which lost. While its true technically the population is growing, it's not nearly as fast as other areas. Although I think the population argument is sort of a red herring anyway.

Also when you talk about median income being higher, what's the cost of living? Exactly. That's why income is high compared to the south.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#412854
As someone who lived in the Chicago area it is a die hard pro sports town. The only college team to get traction is ND but it is behind the Bears,Cubs,Bulls Sox and Blackhawks. And even then it is only upper upper income folks who don't spend money on them
By logic
#412877
1. The top 15 states in total population -


1. CA - 37.6
2. TX - 25.6
3. NY - 19.4
4. FL - 19.0
5. IL - 12.8
6. PA - 12.7
7. OH - 11.5
8. MI - 9.8
9. GA - 9.8
10. NC - 9.6
11. NJ - 8.8
12. VA - 8.0
13. WA - 6.8
14. MA - 6.5
15. IN - 6.5


4 of the top 10 are still Big Ten states. The SEC needed to add Texas to get to three. Michigan with 9.8 million still has twice or even three times the population of Alabama (4.80), Louisiana (4.5), South Carolina (4.6), Kentucky (4.3), Mississippi (2.9), and Arkansas (2.9). Not surprisingly, 3 Big Ten states have major flagship programs with stadiums of over 100k, in fact of the top 4 stadiums in the country in terms of seating capacity, three are Big Ten programs.


2. The 10 largest schools in the country -


1. ASU - 60k
2. UCF - 59.7
3. OSU - 56.3
4. TAM - 53.1
5. UT - 52.1
6. Minny - 51.8
7. UF - 49.5
8. Sparty - 48.9
9. FIU - 47.9
10. PSU - 45.6

The Big Ten puts four on the list, the PAC-12 with one, Big East with one, CUSA with one, SEC with 2, Big 12 with one. Again the SEC had to add TAM to get to 2, while the Big Ten has been BIG for a long time. These are very wealthy, very large schools with hundreds of thousands of living alumni and they will remain big schools, ensuring their importance will continue well into the next generation.



3. Unemployment rates in September of this year. Most recent data I could find.

http://i.usatoday.net/_common/_notches/ ... t-rate.jpg

Those awful rust belt states of PA, OH, IN, Illinois, chock full of unions and the like, all with unemployment rates lower than North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia. Ohio at 7% is lower or tied with every SEC state except Missouri and Texas, and take away those new comers and Ohio's unemployment rate is lower than all but one of the old SEC states, tying with Louisiana. You know the rust belt mantra is worn out when Michigan has a lower unemployment rate than North Carolina.


4. Endowment of Big Ten schools vs. SEC schools, 2011 data, listing only those over 1 billion endowment -


Michigan - 7.8 Billion
Northwestern - 7.1 Billion
TAM - 7 Billion
Vanderbilt - 3.4 Billion
Minnesota - 2.5 Billion
Ohio State - 2.1 Billion
Purdue - 2 Billion
Wisconsin - 1.8 Billion
PSU - 1.7 Billion
Illinois - 1.6 Billion
Indiana - 1.5 Billion
Michigan State - 1.4 Billion
Florida - 1.2 Billion
Nebraska - 1.2 Billion
Missouri- 1.1 Billion
Iowa - 1 Billion



Not even close here, the Big Ten features 12 schools with endowments of over 1 billion, the SEC with only four.




5. If you want to look at cost of living, taxes, and income, check out this article. It may surprise you. "Best States to Make a Living in 2012"


You might be surprised to find two Big Ten Rust Belt states in the top 10, Illinois and Michigan. Again the SEC had to add Texas to get just one state in the top 10. The Big Ten puts 9 states in the top 25 while the SEC counts 5.



6. This is fascinating article here...doesn't have much to do with the argument other than where the money really is, as you didn't like my other data.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49243659/When_It ... s_Dominate

Top states with ultra-high net worth residents, defined as 30 million plus.

1. CA - 10,955 residents with a net worth of 30 million +
2. NY - 8,595
3. TX - 5,890
4. FL - 3,650
5. IL - 2,780
6. MI - 1,700
7. PA - 1,620
8. CT - 1,345
9. OH - 1,330
10. WI - 1,295
11. NJ - 1,275
12. VA - 1,200
13. WA - 1,195
14. MN - 1,125
15. GA - 1,110
16. MD - 1,060
17. MA - 995
18. NC - 945
19. CO - 925
20. AZ - 910
21. IN - 830
22. TN - 815
23. OK - 800
24. MO - 760
25. AR - 560


SEC with 6 states in the top 25, the Big Ten with 9 states. Half of the top ten are Big Ten states. The SEC with two in the top ten, AFTER adding Texas.

Those 9 Big Ten states have 13,015 residents with a net worth of 30 million+, the SEC states have 12,785. Even by adding Texas, the third wealthiest state, the SEC still falls behind the "rust belt" in terms of ultra high net worth.

*As a side note, while the Forbes list of 400 billionaires is quite a selective bunch, when you look at the incredible number of people worth 30 million in this country, you see just how wealthy we really are. 1,200 Virginians worth 30 million? Impressive. I wonder how many live in Lynchburg?



So we could go on and on with this...The Big Ten has bigger schools, more money, more students, more people, more alumni, etc, and so on. It is a relevant conference and will continue to be relevant for well into the future. Sure, the population centers of this country are changing...but look also at the changing demographics that follows the population. Again, with no disrespect to our friends south of the border, if I am a marketing executive I am looking at income, total wealth, race, and population, and if I'm trying to sell products or determining which market will command a greater advertising price I am still going to look to the Big Ten states as a whole.

Again Michigan with all the unions (I agree, unions are awful in 21st century America and they ruined Detroit) STILL had a lower unemployment rate this past September than North Carolina, a right to work state. Ohio with a lower unemployment rate than every single SEC state besides the newcomers...

The Rust Belt theory should be put to rest once and for all. Big Ten states and schools simply have more money than their SEC counterparts, hardly deserving of the rust belt label.
User avatar
By SumItUp
Registration Days Posts
#412885
Purple Haize wrote:
jbock13 wrote:Which is it NAJ? Does the Big ten stink, or is it good?

I agree with 09's analysis.
Easy. They are awful good! :D
His name is not good and awful is a harsh assessment.
  • 1
  • 138
  • 139
  • 140
  • 141
  • 142
  • 607
New Coach

Looks like Alexis is staying. Good for him. Im gla[…]

Death?

Agreed. Pleasant surprise to be able to get on t[…]

River Ridge Expansion and Renovation

https://www.liberty.edu/news/2026/04/24/spring-202[…]

LU Campus Construction Thread

Not sure where to put this specifically, but didn'[…]