[Humble_Opinion]

This kid knows a whole lot about taking advantage of the welfare system. This is what's wrong with our country, and this is why Obama was re-elected. There are too many people like this kid in our country now.

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[Purple Haize]

He shows no shame. I deal with this every day. It's a process to educate people like this. Unfortunately there are not enough 'educators' and as we saw even 70k can't solve the problem

[bballfan84]

this is absolutely pathetic..this is who is electing our officials and deciding on the future of America..it looks like democracy will no longer work, people with a brain and a work ethic or now the minority.

[jmdickens]

We can all agree that this guy is pathetic. However, he is not the only one receiving entitlements. Social Security is an entitlement and we have a whole generation of baby boomers who receive or will receive that and whine and moan anytime a politician brings up cutting social security in any way. We have corporate welfare in this country that should not be tolerated in a free society.

With the younger generation having to make the decisions this country faces we have to come to terms and Default and go over the fiscal cliff. We are not going to pay back all the money that we owe to China or any other country. They knows this, China has come out publicly about this concern recently. We have been paying bills by printing money, which is a tax on savers and the poor. They will feel the brute of this much needed recession with inflation. It will be a deep recession when we do this, however the market will finally be able to correct itself.

Sorry for going off on 8million tangents

[Purple Haize]

We can all agree that this guy is pathetic. However, he is not the only one receiving entitlements. Social Security is an entitlement and we have a whole generation of baby boomers who receive or will receive that and whine and moan anytime a politician brings up cutting social security in any way. We have corporate welfare in this country that should not be tolerated in a free society.

With the younger generation having to make the decisions this country faces we have to come to terms and Default and go over the fiscal cliff. We are not going to pay back all the money that we owe to China or any other country. They knows this, China has come out publicly about this concern recently. We have been paying bills by printing money, which is a tax on savers and the poor. They will feel the brute of this much needed recession with inflation. It will be a deep recession when we do this, however the market will finally be able to correct itself.

Sorry for going off on 8million tangents

I have an issue with the word "entitlement". If I paid into something with an expectation of return, I should be entitled to that return. Tax breaks are not entitlements as much as negotiated outcomes, so there goes the 'corporate welfare' myth. You can even justify Federal financial aide knowing that a college educated citizen will pay more taxes then a non college educated citizen, thus a good return.
What is at issue here is a SENSE of Entitlement. Two different things

[jmdickens]

We can all agree that this guy is pathetic. However, he is not the only one receiving entitlements. Social Security is an entitlement and we have a whole generation of baby boomers who receive or will receive that and whine and moan anytime a politician brings up cutting social security in any way. We have corporate welfare in this country that should not be tolerated in a free society.

With the younger generation having to make the decisions this country faces we have to come to terms and Default and go over the fiscal cliff. We are not going to pay back all the money that we owe to China or any other country. They knows this, China has come out publicly about this concern recently. We have been paying bills by printing money, which is a tax on savers and the poor. They will feel the brute of this much needed recession with inflation. It will be a deep recession when we do this, however the market will finally be able to correct itself.

Sorry for going off on 8million tangents

I have an issue with the word "entitlement". If I paid into something with an expectation of return, I should be entitled to that return. Tax breaks are not entitlements as much as negotiated outcomes, so there goes the 'corporate welfare' myth. You can even justify Federal financial aide knowing that a college educated citizen will pay more taxes then a non college educated citizen, thus a good return.
What is at issue here is a SENSE of Entitlement. Two different things

We can find a way to transition to get off social security without affecting those currently receiving Social Security benefits and let the younger generation off the hook for paying for it. That can only come by cutting military spending. But we know one group hates that idea.

Corporate Welfare is not a myth. No one is talking about tax breaks. We subsidize oil, that is corporate welfare. The Cato Institute(http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa592.pdf) says The US Government spent 92 billion in 2006 on Corporate Welfare and expects to be 100 billion by the end of 2012(http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/PA703.pdf. Oh and Cato doesn't use taxes or trade barriers in their analysis.

Why did you make the assumption that I was talking about taxes when I have made numerous posts that I don't support taxation at any federal level, including corporate taxes?

ETA: Oh and I think a lot of people would argue that the Bailout was a good example of corporate welfare.

[Purple Haize]

I get your point...to a point. I just draw a distinction between 'subsidy' and 'entitlement' or welfare. I have always at farm subsidies and I'm from a farm State.
Where we disagree is really semantics. There are very few cash payments to corporations then compared to individuals. You can live your personal life on welfare but difficult to run a business that way. See the recent green energy debacles.

[TH Spangler]

How did he say he was paying her? This gets more expensive?
http://www.livestrong.com/article/20948 ... e-mothers/

[El Scorcho]

"You know I don't like to speak for all Libertarians. Right now I'm speaking for Libertarians, okay? STOP the wars. Stop the wars now. Bring the troops home and stop spending that money. Stop being the world's policemen. Stop killing people in our name. Stop taking a lot of our money and giving it to rich people to bail them out. KEEP all the Medicare, all the Medicaid and all the welfare. Once we get peace and stop redistributing money to rich people, we can then argue ten years from now about welfare, social services and stuff. It doesn't matter. Compared to the wars, it's just not an issue to me. Certainly PBS is not an issue to me." - Penn Jillette

[jbock13]

" stop redistributing money to rich people,

That part of the quote, that is

And this is where the argument gets lost. Do most rich people want corporate bailouts? Yeah. We know they love the Federal Reserve because by printing money they're already protecting from inflation. But what happens is that the average person chooses to hate the rich, instead of improving their own individual lot in life.

And as so called libertarian, how can she say we should keep medicare in any plan? I assume she's not really for it, but to include it as okay in any proposal is just asinine.

This is the problem with libertarians. Because she says she's one, and the only thing I agree with is the wars.

[El Scorcho]

First of all, Penn isn't a she. That's really beside the point, but it's true.

Second of all: It's not B.S. Penn isn't an average person. Penn is very wealthy. He's not hating the rich. He's hating the government redistributing money from middle class citizens to the wealthy, which is what happens in corporate bailouts. He isn't hating that these people have money. He couldn't care less about that. He cares HOW they're getting it. Bailouts are bad.

And finally, you've missed the forest for the trees. Penn's point is that, in the grand scheme of things, the overall cost of welfare is minuscule when compared to the cost this country playing world police. He didn't say he was for it. He said deal with the biggest issue first, which is just pragmatic. He's making a point about priorities, which you have apparently missed entirely.

[adam42381]

That would be one ugly, enormous woman.

[Purple Haize]

Stop being the Worlds Policeman! Let the Muslim Brotherhood do it!

[jbock13]

Stop being the Worlds Policeman! Let the Muslim Brotherhood do it!

If the people wanted the Muslim brotherhood, what can we do about it? Kill all the people?

[bballfan84]

if we stop policing then we should stop feeding and sending foreign aid overseas as well

[jmdickens]

if we stop policing then we should stop feeding and sending foreign aid overseas as well

I am all for this as well. Why give money to countries who don't like us or who eventually use what we give them against us?

[Purple Haize]

Stop being the Worlds Policeman! Let the Muslim Brotherhood do it!

If the people wanted the Muslim brotherhood, what can we do about it? Kill all the people?

When the MB bully and forces its way into power by killing their detractors (see Coptic Christians) you can't really say the people want it. More afraid to stop it

[Purple Haize]

if we stop policing then we should stop feeding and sending foreign aid overseas as well

I say shower our friend, Israel, India, Eastern Europe with everything we can. Everyone else, we have a trust but verify relationship. Treaties must be upheld, but having a strong Poland Ukraine etc will be nice with a resurgent Russia. India will be a nice, nuclear balance to Pakistan. Etc

[jbock13]

if we stop policing then we should stop feeding and sending foreign aid overseas as well

I say shower our friend, Israel, India, Eastern Europe with everything we can. Everyone else, we have a trust but verify relationship. Treaties must be upheld, but having a strong Poland Ukraine etc will be nice with a resurgent Russia. India will be a nice, nuclear balance to Pakistan. Etc

John Bolton? Bill Kristol? What are you doing posting here?

[Purple Haize]

I know you'd much prefer Michael Bolton and Billy Kristol!

[RubberMallet]

the overall cost of welfare is minuscule when compared to the cost this country playing world police.

agreed. i hate the blood suckers too but man our defense spending is out of control. how can you expect the people of a nation to care about proper financial habits when their country doesn't care about proper financial habits?

when i bought my truck from a buddy, his neighbor was over helping him do something in the garage. this guy has a job at john deere making 80-90k a year. he has been living with his "wife" for over 10 years unmarried legally. they have 3 kids. she is on gvt support because she doesn't work. he's very intelligent and knows exactly what he's doing. his response to any question about it (i didn't question it, my buddy and he have talked about it for a long time) is that, the gvt is irresponsible with its money. if i don't take it, it will got to big companies in bailouts, to enormous gvt contractors, or to build another air craft carrier we don't need. screw that. i'm taking it.

[jbock13]

Unfunded liabilities in programs like medicare and social security are a much bigger issue than defense spending. One figure comes in at around 1 trillion, the other, somewhere between 80-200 trillion.

And yes, medicare and social security are welfare programs. We're just all forced to participate.

Although defense spending needs to be cut as well.

[Purple Haize]

Defense spending is a small part of the Federal Government. Especially when compared to Social Programs. Since we can't just snap a finger and have new Capital ships appear you sorta need to plan ahead for these things. Of course we are still looking for a viable replacement for the B-52 and smooth move to whoever decided to scrap all the molding and tooling to build new ones! I agree 100% that the Govt is the biggest waster of money. However, I would love to see more resources put into the VA to modernize their medical treatments and more thought put into the soldier on the ground. But that is another topic

[Humble_Opinion]

And finally, you've missed the forest for the trees. Penn's point is that, in the grand scheme of things, the overall cost of welfare is minuscule when compared to the cost this country playing world police. He didn't say he was for it. He said deal with the biggest issue first, which is just pragmatic. He's making a point about priorities, which you have apparently missed entirely.

I don't know how you define 'welfare', but if you go and look at the Total Budget Outlays for FY 2013, you'll realize that you and Penn are grossly mistaken. Total expenditures for the three Mandatory Welfare programs (SSI, Medicare and Medicaid) totaled $1.7 Trillion, or about 47% of Total expenditures. In comparison, National Defense spending, including the "Overseas Contingency Operations" aka "War on Terror" was about $700 billion or just under 20% of total expenditures in FY 2013.

By the way, this excludes the costs of other welfare programs such as the school breakfast/lunch programs and various food stamp programs, such as SNAP. According to Heritage, the total cost of SNAP in 2000 was $19.8 billion. In 2011 that number jumped to $84.6 billion, and SNAP is just one of twelve programs that provide food stamp assistance to those in need. There are some other scary figures in that Heritage article that I suggest you read.

Now, I agree we spend too much on National Defense, and I think we should consider withdrawing most of our forces from Iraq and Afghanistan, but that isn't going to put much of a dent in our year to year deficits. Especially since Obama got back into office.

http://www.heritage.org/research/report ... mp-program

[ALUmnus]

I understand the sentiment, but I think the whole "world police" is a little bit misguided. It seems our military/intelligence does very little that's not in our own interest. Otherwise we'd be in a lot more situations than we are, because there's need everywhere. And we get blasted for not being involved in Africa.

Some things are just a necessary evil. Take the UN. I hate it, wish we didn't have to participate. But just because of the fact that it's there and has the authority that it does, we don't have much of a choice but to participate. If we leave, they make decisions that would have damaging effects on us, and we have no say. We can cut ties, but that doesn't make the UN go away. We're still in for our own good.

In the current world we live in, any void left by the US will be filled with someone/something else. Maybe you could say that's good, but I personally have trust issues.

I think military spending should be lowered with better procurement policy/oversight/expertise than with cutting the military itself.