[SuperJon]

Atleast Gill is responsible enough to take the situation serious. Because if not taken serious and he would continue to be forced into playing and would eventually get worse over time and could become career altering. (speaking from experience)...

That's super cryptic.

[rogers3]

Actually, I've talked with someone closely tied to Gillespie and Williams and there is some validity to the issue, though replacement isn't the solution. Strength training focused on Olympic type movements requires more time on improving movement and flexibility than most teams will give.
Of course, injuries like Boyd's are just wrong place-wrong time issues; no one can makes bones more flexible.

Olympic movements are not the issue. Football happens. Injuries happen. Olympic lifting actually increases flexibility.

Watch and critique football player's lifting videos from the weightroom. You will see what I mean; You WONT see anyone in that snatch position, but cleans are an Olympic type movement, and range of motion is an important part of reducing injuries. Watch the squats and see how flexible the guys are. They aren't doing these lifts to improve flexibility and few, if any receive a snatch as low as that guy. I am just pointing out that not enough time is spent on that part of conditioning and it probably isn't for lack of want. Accidents do happen but Boyd's injury and Lunsford's are totally different. Maybe I'm totally off base- maybe we just get those guys that genetically are prone to injury. Maybe we are just unlucky- it has to be one of the three.
Nice crossfit photo- do you do that stuff?

[Purple Haize]

Yeah, cause when I think flexibility, I think power lifters. That may be the issue

Tread carefully here Haize, you may be in uncharted territory. Power lifting and Olympic lifting are completely different.

logic, seriously ? I've forgotten more about the Olympics then you will ever know. Power lifting and Olympic lifting are different, but not completely. And the point remains in either case. When I think flexibility, I still don't think of OLYMPIC lifters. Feel better?

[logic]

Crossfit? Haha...


This is Crossfit -





The pic I offered was a snatch from an actual weightlifting competition that happened to be uploaded on a Crossfit site.


Now let Salimi show us how it's done...470 lbs. Tell me this guy isn't flexible.

[youtube]

[/youtube]

[roadkingjim]

While you can't ignore Coach Gillespie's accomplishments you still wonder about the measure of success with the players when it comes to strength and conditioning. Olympic style movement and lifting takes a lengthy time to master and benefit from. A player can only give 4 - 5 years (depending if they redshirt) and this is juggling practice, a thing called school, study halls and any extracurricular activity that LU supports like church & bible study, etc... Coach Gillespie has been there 6+ years now and we should have (if not - darn close) the strongest, flexible and fastest players on the field... I just don't know if I am seeing that given the programs of the teams we have played thus far (to include previous years).

[rogers3]

Crossfit? Haha...


This is Crossfit -





The pic I offered was a snatch from an actual weightlifting competition that happened to be uploaded on a Crossfit site.


Now let Salimi show us how it's done...470 lbs. Tell me this guy isn't flexible.

[youtube]

[/youtube]

Ha-Ha. Love it! I own a CrossFit site... literally. Maybe we need to chat! I'd love to see some of those lighter weight Russian Olympic lifters out on the field, but some good CrossFit folks might do, as well... maybe a Rich Froning type with eligibilty?

[BJWilliams]

While you can't ignore Coach Gillespie's accomplishments you still wonder about the measure of success with the players when it comes to strength and conditioning. Olympic style movement and lifting takes a lengthy time to master and benefit from. A player can only give 4 - 5 years (depending if they redshirt) and this is juggling practice, a thing called school, study halls and any extracurricular activity that LU supports like church & bible study, etc... Coach Gillespie has been there 6+ years now and we should have (if not - darn close) the strongest, flexible and fastest players on the field... I just don't know if I am seeing that given the programs of the teams we have played thus far (to include previous years).

Really it depends on the nature of a lot of the injuries I would think. an injury like Malcolm's, I dont think any amount of training in Olympic style movement could have prevented that. As for the others, if we knew what the injuries were and how they were sustained, then I think we could see if greater emphasis on that sort of training could help. I also think that more time acclimating to the new sand pit over by the new intramural fields could help things as well.

[Purple Haize]

logic- that guy isn't all that flexible. He may be for his style of competition, but in general, no. The female you put up there and those Crossfit type people are much more flexible.
I know that several of our sports do not engage in a bunch of stretching exercises. Pulled muscles are always a good sign of lack of stretching. So are several other injuries. Broken bones however, are just wrong spot wrong time.

[logic]

logic- that guy isn't all that flexible. He may be for his style of competition, but in general, no. The female you put up there and those Crossfit type people are much more flexible.
I know that several of our sports do not engage in a bunch of stretching exercises. Pulled muscles are always a good sign of lack of stretching. So are several other injuries. Broken bones however, are just wrong spot wrong time.

Not sure how Salimi is not flexible....ask the average college student or adult to get into a deep squat position with their hands directly overhead. 99% couldn't do it. Back in the old days, the sit and reach hamstring flexibility test was king. People said "can you touch your toes?" and that was the only measure of flexibility we had. Flexibility is so much more than simply how much muscle fiber you can tear while you are sitting down. IMHO joint mobility trumps static flexibility.

To get into the position below requires incredible flexibility/mobility around 6 different joints. In my opinion this is a much better gauge of flexibility than measuring the range of 1 joint (static hamstring stretch). Similar to how squats > leg extension because with a squat you're involving 3 joints in the lift and not one. Multi-joint > single joint when it comes to lifting, and multi-joint > single joint when it comes to flexibility as well (IMHO). I would also argue this type of flexibility/mobility is more "functional" to use an overplayed strength training term. If I were a PT working with an older population I would want them getting into a deep squat position daily as it would increase their quality of life as they age.

[Purple Haize]

Deep squat with an older population? Oh sweet Lord tell me you are not going into PT. OT would be even worse. Deep squats can do a lot more harm then help.
I'm not one to play this card often, but I have decades of experience with athletes. Stretching and flexibility are often overlooked.

[logic]

Deep squat with an older population? Oh sweet Lord tell me you are not going into PT. OT would be even worse. Deep squats can do a lot more harm then help.
I'm not one to play this card often, but I have decades of experience with athletes. Stretching and flexibility are often overlooked.

Squatting is harmful? That is a myth, always has been and always will be. Tell me about bone mineral density as it relates to strength training, specifically dead lifting and squatting, and then tell me about older populations who lose said bone mineral density along with muscle mass and hip mobility.


For thousands of years this was a safe, natural position for humans -






It wasn't until we turned sedentary and toilets were invented that we lost a lot of our hip, low back, and knee mobility as we aged.

We go from this -




To this -




When we should be trying to do this as we age...

[jcmanson]

And thanks to both of you for ruining another good thread

[Purple Haize]

And thanks to both of you for ruining another good thread

I was not going to respond anymore. It did get sort of hijacked

[SumItUp]

When we should be trying to do this as we age...

Is that you?

[Purple Haize]

Thank you for causing me to spew Milan all over my iPad screen

[jbock13]

Logic, please go back to contemplating intimate conversations and leave the football to the football guys.

I fully admit, most others on here know much more than me regarding the players. I seldom give my opinions and leave it to them.

[logic]

Logic, please go back to contemplating intimate conversations and leave the football to the football guys.

I fully admit, most others on here know much more than me regarding the players. I seldom give my opinions and leave it to them.

The conversation moved to strength training. I see no problem with "weighing in."

[rogers3]

Logic, please go back to contemplating intimate conversations and leave the football to the football guys.

I fully admit, most others on here know much more than me regarding the players. I seldom give my opinions and leave it to them.

The conversation moved to strength training. I see no problem with "weighing in."

logic- the whole lack of mobility thing... just a bit too close to home for some of these guys!

[Purple Haize]

I resemble that remark!

[Steffattack]

Just a note - weight lifting is not the time to work on your flexibility. Heavy squatting is not your main exercise of choice to help your flexibility. Lifting is for strength. Mobility work with light weight if any will be the main diet for flexibility. Don't confuse the two.

The reason you see weak form in the videos is because they always show their max attempts. It is impossible to have perfect form when lifting a true max. If you were to see a video of training that wasnt a max session you would see a different story.

Also note, the football team doesnt do any snatching. Great lift but too dangerous to teach to that many student athletes and expect accidents not to happen. It takes years to learn that lift well. There is a reason many elite strength coaches dont even do any oly lifting in any of their programs - because the form is atrocious and takes too long to teach.

Gillespie knows what he is doing. The coaching staff and entire athletic department know this. Thankfully fans dont have input on hiring and firing. He wont be going anywhere anytime soon.

[Purple Haize]

I believe my comments were all about flexibility and stretching.

[rogers3]

I believe my comments were all about flexibility and stretching.

I think Steff missed that. While we went off on a CrossFit tangent, the issues was about flexibility and the question was whether that had anything to do with the injuries.

[ProudPapa73]

Deep squat with an older population? Oh sweet Lord tell me you are not going into PT. OT would be even worse. Deep squats can do a lot more harm then help.
I'm not one to play this card often, but I have decades of experience with athletes. Stretching and flexibility are often overlooked.

Squatting is harmful? That is a myth, always has been and always will be. Tell me about bone mineral density as it relates to strength training, specifically dead lifting and squatting, and then tell me about older populations who lose said bone mineral density along with muscle mass and hip mobility.


For thousands of years this was a safe, natural position for humans -






It wasn't until we turned sedentary and toilets were invented that we lost a lot of our hip, low back, and knee mobility as we aged.

We go from this -




To this -




When we should be trying to do this as we age...

One of the best laughs I've had in a long long time! Thank you!

[Purple Haize]

What's funnier is that logic is serious. Bless his heart

[logic]

It just drives me nuts when I hear "squatting is bad for you" when humans were made to squat. It is the natural form of elimination. Toilets are in fact, unnatural. Squatting is not the problem as we age, it is the lack if squatting that is the problem. Haize, one of your favorite musicians said the following - "never slow down, never grow old." There is truth to that...use it or lose it!!