[El Scorcho]

Released last week by The NY Times. Worth eight and a half minutes. (No nudity in this one. I promise.)

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I believe this is the end result of a knee-jerk reaction to September 11th. We've allowed our intelligence agencies to operate outside of the law (or in shadow law) and at extremes far from where they should be. The Patriot Act paved the way, and warrantless wiretaps and administrative subpoenas have spiraled out of control.

A Republican administration started it and a Democrat administration has continued to expand it. No congressional majority of either party has formally questioned it.

Where does it stop? Where is the accountability? Why are Americans so willing to let this be?

This is why I'm jaded as a voter. This is why I don't feel like it matters which party I vote for. Sure there are differences in some areas, but when it comes to this sort of thing both parties are in full agreement. I don't accept that this is just how America will be. So, political pundits, tell me who I vote for. Tell me how I'm supposed to still believe in the system.

[jbock13]

I share your frustration. But I can at least say this. George Bush did not use the power of government to crack down on political dissenters. But DHS has under Obama. Especially if you're a member of the tea party.

Does it make what Bush did right though? Of course not.

[Purple Haize]

I did like that there was provision for th 'Patriot Act' to not be renewed. I thought it was a good idea at safeguarding. However, I also knew that in Washington, once something passes, it's nearly impossible to get rid off

[El Scorcho]

However, I also knew that in Washington, once something passes, it's nearly impossible to get rid off

Especially when you call it "The Patriot Act".

And before anyone else weighs in with this opinion, I'll let Trent Lott put it out there first:

"What are people worried about? What is the problem?" asked Lott, a former majority leader. "Are you doing something you're not supposed to?" - http://goo.gl/Ey7BR

[Purple Haize]

Yep. Didn't care for that line at all

[jmdickens]

“The PATRIOT Act was written many, many years before 9/11,” Paul said. The attacks simply provided “an opportunity for some people to do what they wanted to do,”

Violation of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The problem is that people bought into the lie after 9/11. We were looking to discover who attacked the WTC and our elected class decided it was time to put aside our rights in the name of "safety". All a bunch of hogwash and the Patriot Act is more dangerous to the US than anything in the past decade. There needs to be a huge backlash against our officials who continue to tout the same nonsense about how this protect us. Sorry for the rant.

[thepostman]

You asked why American's are so willing to sit back and saying/do nothing. That is easy to answer. It is much easier for Americans as a whole to believe that the things that are done are for our best interest. It has been also spun in such a way that if you are against the patriot act then you must have something to hide or are in some way unpatriotic.

The patriot act is one of the many reasons I think its funny that there are people out there that think Bush did a great job and it is Obama who has ruined it all. This kind of thing has been getting worse and worse every year. It doesn't matter who the president is because as long as they can be scared into believing the bull crap that is pushed onto them they will continue to the same track. Obama has proved it, and I know Romney will do exactly the same thing.

I find it humorous people think otherwise.

And no jbock this is not some "Ron Paul is perfect" post. I know that is what you come back with anything like this is posted. I guess it's easier to say, "Romney won't be as bad" then actually admit both candidates are going to be terrible for this country and will continue down the same road we are going. Romney just might not push us down there as fast.

This is my opinion, and not the opinion of anybody else...just fyi

[ALUmnus]

Not to belittle the point, but doesn't the Patriot Act just make something legal that was already being done?

[El Scorcho]

Yes, sort of. And it's not the only law that's been passed (or even modified) to allow this sort of thing, though. Look at how Bush had the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act modified, for example.

The problem is that, in the past, this type of activity was called out in Congress when it was revealed. There's a long history of the CIA having to play CYA when they were exposed to Congress (aka the people) via the press. Now it seems that, post-9/11 Congress and the press are complicit with the executive branch and the DIA. (Not a typo. I meant DIA, not CIA.)

And since we've been through two supposedly very different flavors of executive branch in the last 8 years, I'm wondering what's left for people who don't think this is right. It would seem, to me, that these are the only issues are politicians are united on.

[jbock13]

Postman I agree with you... you're not one of those Ron Paul is deity guys anyway.

[El Scorcho]

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[jbock13]

Haha... Democracy now...

Or as I like to call it, communism now!

[El Scorcho]

Haha... Democracy now...

Or as I like to call it, communism now!

It's a good interview, in spite of the source. Watch it and tell me I'm wrong.

Look at Obama bragging about prosecuting Thomas Drake (who's interviewed there): http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... rsecutions

[LUconn]

I watch FSTV all the time. It's pretty good for lols. Sorry to post something that has nothing to do with the point you're trying to make.

[jbock13]

I will gladly consider the guardian as a much better source.

It just cracks me up, because, isn't a Marxist-Leninist society what Goodman wants? So why would she care about civil liberties... the individual has no liberties in the Leninist state.


It's conservatives who should care about civil liberties. Unfortunately, some choose to let their zealotry and personal convictions get in the way of freedom and liberty within reason.

[Purple Haize]

IMO the Press focused on the wrong things. What good did it do to tell the world we had agreements with foreign banks to track money from and between terrorist organizations? And the Press never really drew a line of distinction between US Citizens and Non US Citizens. Has they done this it would have gone along way in keeping 'us' safe and reporting on what were really egregious violations. (I'm looking at you domestic drone surveillance program)

[jmdickens]

Not to belittle the point, but doesn't the Patriot Act just make something legal that was already being done?

It is, but judges wouldn't allow the evidence in court. Basically, the politicians found a way to justify the means.