[Purple Haize]

Any school with scholarship money can "afford" to recruit foreign athletes. A full scholarship for someone from Sweden costs the same as a full ride for someone form Amherst County.

You really have no clue how budgets work and or are allocated do you?
I would like to see how you think we could be competitive right away in football as a CUSA memeber

[jbock13]

I would like to see how you think we could be competitive right away in football as a CUSA memeber

[youtube]

[/youtube]

[ATrain]

Any school with scholarship money can "afford" to recruit foreign athletes. A full scholarship for someone from Sweden costs the same as a full ride for someone form Amherst County.

It has nothing to do with the value of the scholarship. It has to do with the ability to send coaches to Europe, South America, and Australia to scout these kids or establish relationships with the sports institutes. Do you Radford or Longwood has the same ability to recruit a Swedish golfer as Liberty?

Radford does have a good ability to recruit men's tennis players from Hong Kong, so I would argue that if their golf program was on full scholarships, they would have the same ability.

[RVAparks]

Any school with scholarship money can "afford" to recruit foreign athletes. A full scholarship for someone from Sweden costs the same as a full ride for someone form Amherst County.

It has nothing to do with the value of the scholarship. It has to do with the ability to send coaches to Europe, South America, and Australia to scout these kids or establish relationships with the sports institutes. Do you Radford or Longwood has the same ability to recruit a Swedish golfer as Liberty?

Radford does have a good ability to recruit men's tennis players from Hong Kong, so I would argue that if their golf program was on full scholarships, they would have the same ability.

There are certainly exceptions everywhere (and there seems to be a lot in Tennis). Sometimes it's coaches relationships and various other factors. Which could be the case for Liberty. I was just using golf as an example b/c I competing with them and the team, frankly, wasn't very good and didn't have any foreign players. After I graduated and there seemed to be an influx in foreign players. Sure some came organically like Lidstrom coming via Karlsson, but it seems to be a growing trend nonetheless.

Those kids from Hong Kong were British and competed in the US often.

Anyways the point of the whole discussion was that Liberty has more resources to allocate and directly compete in non-revenue sports compared to most other mid-majors. It has nothing to do with scholarships, rather athletic budgets and resource allocations.

I know football plays a significant role in these numbers but Liberty's athletic expenses are more than Asheville, Longwood, and High Point combined. I also find it odd that Liberty's revenue is disclosed as the exact same amount as their expenses. Which could just be a mess up, or they aren't truly reporting their athletic expenses.

[logic]

Any school with scholarship money can "afford" to recruit foreign athletes. A full scholarship for someone from Sweden costs the same as a full ride for someone form Amherst County.

You really have no clue how budgets work and or are allocated do you?
I would like to see how you think we could be competitive right away in football as a CUSA memeber

I have a general idea of how they work. Please explain to me where I erred in my post? CUSA teams we could beat in football our first year in the league would be Tulane, UTEP, UAB, possibly Marshall. We would not be at the bottom I can tell you that. We are only two years removed from a win over Ball State and played NC State very tough. Have you forgotten that?


Getting away from football for a second and looking at some CUSA athletic departments as a whole... You guys get so excited about Sun Belt and CUSA schools...put them on such a high shelf...look at their budgets, look at their facilities, look at their support staff. Guys, they really aren't very good, I hate to break it to you. They just really aren't as "big-time" as you think they are.

Let us take Marshall as a quick case study, looking at coaches and support staff.

1. Marshall has 3 full-time strength and conditioning coaches, we have SIX
2. Marshall has 1 full-time ticket person, we have FOUR
3. Marshall has 4 full-time athletic trainers, we have SEVEN
4. Marshall has 2 full-time compliance people, we have THREE
5. Marshall has 2 full-time volleyball coaches, we have the NCAA maximum of THREE
6. Marshall has 3 full-time Track/Field coaches, we have the NCAA maximum of SIX
7. Marshall has 2 full-time women's soccer coaches, we have the NCAA maximum of THREE
8. Marshall has 2 full-time men's soccer coaches, we have the NCAA maximum of THREE
9. Marshall has 1 full-time men's golf coach, we have the NCAA maximum of TWO
10.Marshall has 4 full-time academic support staff, we have SEVEN



Now, you're telling me you think Marshall is a big-time place running a big-time athletics department and they're not even bothering to staff their teams with the NCAA maximum of full-time coaches? Any point you try to make about Marshall and CUSA and "big-time" is about worthless after digesting that.


How about UTEP? First of all, any school that is part of a state system that still has the alpha school in their name is no big-time place. Big-time schools stand alone. There is only one University of Texas. Throw out University of Texas - El Paso, it is a glorified branch campus, a fake, a fraud. Same goes for Wisconsin-Milwaukee, University of Texas at San Antonio, Arlington, Permian Basin, etc. Look at the UC system, Berkeley is the only school that matters. Who wants to go to the branch campus school? A true school stands alone. UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS is alpha. We don't even need to include "at Austin" because we all know what TEXAS is. UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS - pan american is beta....their name comes AFTER the Alpha school that is University of Texas.

UTEP -

1. UTEP has one full-time golf coach, we have two.
2. UTEP has four full-time track coaches, we have six.
3. UTEP has two full-time soccer coaches, we have three.
4. UTEP has one full-time tennis coach, we have two.

The rest of their staff directory is jumbled so I won't bother going through. My guess is we are better staffed.


How about Tulane? Surely the Green Wave and their private school must be funded well, right?

1. Tulane has four full-time academic counselors, we have seven.
2. Tulane has four full-time athletics communication types, we have five.
3. Tulane has five full-time athletic trainers, we have we seven.
4. Tulane has one full-time golf coach, we have two
5. Tulane has four full-time track coaches, we have six
6. Tulane has one full-time men's tennis coach, we have two
7. Tulane has one full-time bowling coach, the NCAA maximum is two
8. Tulane has six full-time strength and conditioning coaches. Ok...fair enough, we have six as well.


Now again...Tulane is a CUSA school. They do not have the NCAA maximum number of coaches in some of their sports, and you're telling me Tulane is a big-time place? You're telling me our programs couldn't compete with theirs right away?


I could go on and on. Any school that does not even employ the full number of NCAA allowable coaches should hardly consider themselves big-time. It's a fraud, a joke, a fake. Any school claiming to want to be good will staff at the NCAA's highest levels, period.

For the above mentioned reasons I do believe many of our programs would do well in CUSA right away. I would welcome any opposition to that statement, backed up with numbers of course. Just saying "because they're CUSA schools" isn't good enough. I showed you some facts - we're better staffed than 3 CUSA schools as we speak and they were the only three I checked.

CUSA schools including Liberty placed the following in the final Director's Cup Standings

55. Central Florida
56. Tulsa
95. Liberty
100. SMU
120. Memphis
121. Houston
122. UBA
124. Southern Miss
130. East Carolina
143. UTEP
164. Rice
228. Marshall
231. Tulane


So tell me again why we wouldn't be competitive in Olympic sports right away in CUSA? Getting back to football, we would certainly NOT be a bottom dweller, not even in our first year.

Any school with scholarship money can "afford" to recruit foreign athletes. A full scholarship for someone from Sweden costs the same as a full ride for someone form Amherst County.

It has nothing to do with the value of the scholarship. It has to do with the ability to send coaches to Europe, South America, and Australia to scout these kids or establish relationships with the sports institutes. Do you Radford or Longwood has the same ability to recruit a Swedish golfer as Liberty?

In a sport like tennis, a coach does not personally need to go overseas to bring in talented athletes. Not enough money in the budget is what mediocre coaches use for an excuse instead of a little old fashioned elbow grease. Any coach with a computer and full scholarships can recruit international tennis players. Email develops the relationship with them and their coach, youtube allows you to see them play, and the scholarship via airmail or fax allows them to sign.

And no, Longwood and Radford probably do not offer a lot of scholarship money so of course they won't be able to recruit those athletes and compete at the Division I level. This is another reason why Liberty would be competitive right away in a better conference as every sport here is fully funded, something not always seen even in the CUSA / Big East ranks. No offense to Longwood, but they have two strength coaches on staff...we have six. You call that buying a championship, while really everyone knows it is just what you need to do in order to win.

[Purple Haize]

I specifically asked about football and you gave a lot of words but didn't address the topic. It reminds me of one of my favorite quotes 'it is sound and fury, signifying nothing.". 'alpha' names and your precious Directors Cup standings?
What does being 2 years removed from beating Ball State have to do with anything? It would/could have been a nice stepping stone.
You do list teams we COULD beat in our first year in football but give nothing to back it up. Then your crazy pills kick in. I mean with the exception of Cider Jim and a girl I knew in college, I HATE all things Marshall and you say we could possibly beat them our first year?! They gave West Virginia all they wanted the last few years, and we know how well we did against them. Could we beat Marshall n other sports? Probably, but again this was a discussion about football. I even put it in the post!
Now, knowing that your sense of time is fluid, but I'm operating under the premise that we would be in CUSA this year or next. If you are talking 5-10 years down the road then it is a moot point.

[JK37]

Logic,

I may not agree with all of it, but finally you've lived up to your name by presenting a logical defense of your position. With regard to football, I agree that we would be competitive with each of the comparison schools you mentioned. Would we defeat every one of them in Year One? I say, no. The depth gap on the OL/DL is too vast to be where it needs to be tomorrow. But I like your optimism, and I believe in the infrastructure argument you've made.

Think about this: if we announced a move to CUSA, say, two years in advance...we would have time to prepare such depth. NOBODY here isn't saying that given that type of scenario, Liberty wouldn't enter it's hypothetical FBS conference and be immediately competitive. I believe the argument arises to your statement that we would be better than the teams you listed TOMORROW. Competitive, maybe. Beat them all? No. But give Liberty two years prep, and there's no argument.

[Cider Jim]

CUSA teams we could beat in football our first year in the league would be...possibly Marshall.

[Purple Haize]

CUSA teams we could beat in football our first year in the league would be...possibly Marshall.

Now you know how the Mountaineers feel when the Thundering Turd starts talking their pablum.

[jbock13]

Even though it's been pretty close, Marshall has never beat WVU in football, and never will.

[Cider Jim]

If Randy Moss wouldn't have left early for the NFL and played his last 2 years for Marshall...

[Purple Haize]

If Randy Moss wouldn't have left early for the NFL and played his last 2 years for Marshall...

You sound like logic. 'Marshall was two years away from beating WVU".

[ATrain]

I specifically asked about football and you gave a lot of words but didn't address the topic. It reminds me of one of my favorite quotes 'it is sound and fury, signifying nothing.". 'alpha' names and your precious Directors Cup standings?
What does being 2 years removed from beating Ball State have to do with anything? It would/could have been a nice stepping stone.
You do list teams we COULD beat in our first year in football but give nothing to back it up. Then your crazy pills kick in. I mean with the exception of Cider Jim and a girl I knew in college, I HATE all things Marshall and you say we could possibly beat them our first year?! They gave West Virginia all they wanted the last few years, and we know how well we did against them. Could we beat Marshall n other sports? Probably, but again this was a discussion about football. I even put it in the post!
Now, knowing that your sense of time is fluid, but I'm operating under the premise that we would be in CUSA this year or next. If you are talking 5-10 years down the road then it is a moot point.

Actually the quote from Macbeth, Act V Scene V is "it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Carry on

[Cider Jim]

William Faulkner also used that quote as the title of his most famous novel, The Sound and the Fury.

[Purple Haize]

William Faulkner also used that quote as the title of his most famous novel, The Sound and the Fury.

Ding ding.

[RVAparks]

CUSA teams we could beat in football our first year in the league would be Tulane, UTEP, UAB, possibly Marshall. We would not be at the bottom I can tell you that. We are only two years removed from a win over Ball State and played NC State very tough. Have you forgotten that?

You COULD also lose to them, and you're also not going to play those schools every year. Tulane and UTEP are both West division teams, so the chances of playing both in the same year are slim (ECU actually does this year). So best case scenario you're saying Liberty could go 2-7 in conference play in CUSA?

Lets just hypothetically say that CUSA calls Liberty today and they get to play CUSA football in 2013. Here is an example of what their schedule could look like.

@ ACC opponent
vs. FCS school
@ Sun Belt/MAC school
@ ECU
vs. ODU
vs FIU
@ Southern Miss
vs. UAB
@ Marshall
vs. La Tech
@ Rice

What's the best case scenario for that season? What's the worse? When will you be contending for a division title? I think at best maybe 4-7 and that's a big maybe.

[jcmanson]

Whatever it is it certainly beats 0-0

[JK37]

Whatever it is it certainly beats 0-0

Well played!

[Purple Haize]

CUSA teams we could beat in football our first year in the league would be Tulane, UTEP, UAB, possibly Marshall. We would not be at the bottom I can tell you that. We are only two years removed from a win over Ball State and played NC State very tough. Have you forgotten that?

You COULD also lose to them, and you're also not going to play those schools every year. Tulane and UTEP are both West division teams, so the chances of playing both in the same year are slim (ECU actually does this year). So best case scenario you're saying Liberty could go 2-7 in conference play in CUSA?

Lets just hypothetically say that CUSA calls Liberty today and they get to play CUSA football in 2013. Here is an example of what their schedule could look like.

@ ACC opponent
vs. FCS school
@ Sun Belt/MAC school
@ ECU
vs. ODU
vs FIU
@ Southern Miss
vs. UAB
@ Marshall
vs. La Tech
@ Rice

What's the best case scenario for that season? What's the worse? When will you be contending for a division title? I think at best maybe 4-7 and that's a big maybe.

This is what I was looking for one way or the other. I didn't know how the schedule would have played out but it's a good break down. I would suspect and hope that record would improve over time but it seems realistic for the first few years
I understand the thought behind 2-7 being better then 0-0. I'd prefer to make the jump when we can be closer to .500 but that's just me.

[RVAparks]

I understand the thought behind 2-7 being better then 0-0. I'd prefer to make the jump when we can be closer to .500 but that's just me.

That was just a senseless jab at Longwood that has come to be expected by certain posters. I appreciate the people here that actually enjoy respectfully debating and discussing sports through the summer doldrums.

[jcmanson]

How do we know when that is though? It's comparing apples and oranges. Everyone said in ODU's first year in CAA play they would go 4-7 or something similar. Yet they go 10-3 and won a game in the playoffs.

[jcmanson]

respectfully debating and discussing sports

Respect is shown to those who give it

[Sly Fox]

Lets just hypothetically say that CUSA calls Liberty today and they get to play CUSA football in 2013. Here is an example of what their schedule could look like.

@ ACC opponent
vs. FCS school
@ Sun Belt/MAC school
@ ECU
vs. ODU
vs FIU
@ Southern Miss
vs. UAB
@ Marshall
vs. La Tech
@ Rice

Dude, quit reminding of me of this type of schedule. I can't even fathom driving a Flames football game across town. There would be three road games within potential driving distance for me. That would be epic!

As for my recent silence, it has more to do with the fact that I haven't heard anything worth mentioning. Barring some of the already discussed moves, we are in a waiting game.

[RVAparks]

Sorry to get you salivating Sly haha

[Humble_Opinion]

I know football plays a significant role in these numbers but Liberty's athletic expenses are more than Asheville, Longwood, and High Point combined. I also find it odd that Liberty's revenue is disclosed as the exact same amount as their expenses. Which could just be a mess up, or they aren't truly reporting their athletic expenses.

If you conduct some research of Athletics departments around the U.S. you will find that most schools report to the NCAA that their Revenue and Expenses are the same. There is a reason for this, but it's not worth going into at the moment.