[lynchburgwildcats]

The talent gap between that Dallas team and that Cleveland team was not that great. Tyson didn't do much more then did Big Z. Shawn Marion? Really? I'm not saying Marshall had as good a career but he was having a great year. So was Gibson. What Dallas DID have was a sense of maturity that came from their leaders in Kidd, who is waayyyyy past his prime and Dirk. Don't fall for the stereotypes! And as stated if James is the greatest he should have been able to over come!

Donyell Marshall averaged 3.5 points on 33% shooting in the playoffs. His regular season was just as bad looking if not worse. In what universe is that a great year? Even in Donyell Marshall standards that's not even a good year. In 2011 Shawn Marion averaged 12.5 points and 7 rebounds while shooting 52%. In the playoffs it was 12, 6, and 47%. I'll take 2011 Marion over 2007 Marshall every single second of my life.

Ilgauskas in 2007 averaged 12 and 8 while shooting 48.5%. Last year Tyson Chandler averaged 10 and 9 while shooting 65.4% and earning NBA All-Defense. Big Z has never come close to sniffing All-Defense. I would never consider even for one second taking 2007 Ilgauskas over 2011 Chandler.

Daniel Gibson averaged 8.3 points in the playoffs and was primarily a spot up shooter. While that was a solid run for him, it's hardly anything exceptional. While he and Barea pretty much scored about the same in the playoffs, Barea added assists and was a much more versatile scorer and forced defenses to respect his penetration, not just his spot up shooting like with Gibson. Who would I rather have? Barea without a shadow of a doubt.

[RubberMallet]

Donyell Marshall averaged 3.5 points on 33% shooting in the playoffs.

ftfy

[lynchburgwildcats]

Donyell Marshall averaged 3.5 points on 33% shooting in the playoffs.

ftfy

Whoops. He only averaged 10.7 minutes, got the two columns mixed on basketball reference.

[jcmanson]

Great game last night. Back and forth, Celtics delivered the first punch, Heat answered back, Celtics responded, Heat prevailed. Rondo was amazing - 44, 8, 10 I think it was. The Celtics have to feel bad today after they gave it everything they had, and played very well yet still lost.

I expect Games 3 and 4 back in Boston to be very tightly contested as well.

[bradyfan]

Great game last night. Back and forth, Celtics delivered the first punch, Heat answered back, Celtics responded, Heat prevailed. Rondo was amazing - 44, 8, 10 I think it was. The Celtics have to feel bad today after they gave it everything they had, and played very well yet still lost.

I expect Games 3 and 4 back in Boston to be very tightly contested as well.

Rondo did have a fantastic game last night. Not to take away from how great Boston played last night but if Miami doesn't win, they need to trade Wade. 2 points in the first half is terrible. I don't care who you're playing, if you're a star, it's go-time. It's playoff time, you can't play like that in the first half of a playoff game and be a star.

[jcmanson]

Dwyane Wade is a star regardless of if he has a bad half or 2.

And he ended up with 23 6 4 8/15 shooting

[lynchburgwildcats]

Well Rondo just put up one of the top 10-20 best individual non-finals playoff performances. Only seven times has a player put up 40, 10, and 8 in a playoff game. Rondo's 44 points is the most points scored in such a performance. Oscar Robertson is the only player to do it twice.

[Purple Haize]

How did LeBron do in the final :30's In the 4th with the game on the line? Who did the ball run through most of the overtime?

[bradyfan]

How did LeBron do in the final :30's In the 4th with the game on the line? Who did the ball run through most of the overtime?

Why does that matter? If Lebron hadn't had given his 35 minutes before overtime, there is no overtime. He had a double double and was three assist away from a triple double. Not to mention, he was the only one playing defense for 3/4 of the game. There are many great players, who never hit that jump shot, and there are many terrible players who will hit that shot. Lebron has hit that shot before, did it against the Celtics in last years playoffs, yet people still talk about how he can't close. I guarantee you if he hit that shot, it wouldn't have changed anyone's mind on if he can close or not. People choose what they want to believe, regardless of facts being thrown in their face. DWade plays terrible until the final quarter, and gets credit for basically winning the game. Lebron gives everything the whole game and because he misses one shot, people are saying he's overrated. Please.

[RubberMallet]

*yawn* the dude nearly had a triple double putting up another 30 points. the dude in clutch time is one of the best players on the court. he's hit game winners, he's missed some. jordan did too.

[thepostman]

haha lebron in the same sentence as jordan. Get back to me when he wins championships

[RubberMallet]

jordan from 1984-1990 SUCKED.

[bradyfan]

haha lebron in the same sentence as jordan. Get back to me when he wins championships

actually he put them in the same paragraph, not the same sentence. read carefully.

he's hit game winners, he's missed some. jordan did too.

[adam42381]

jordan from 1984-1990 SUCKED.

Check the stats and get back to us on that one.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... bile=false

[thepostman]

jordan from 1984-1990 SUCKED.

haha sucked huh? Slightly exagerrated, but he did suck in washington, what's your point exactly?

[Purple Haize]

How did LeBron do in the final :30's In the 4th with the game on the line? Who did the ball run through most of the overtime?

Why does that matter? If Lebron hadn't had given his 35 minutes before overtime, there is no overtime. He had a double double and was three assist away from a triple double. Not to mention, he was the only one playing defense for 3/4 of the game. There are many great players, who never hit that jump shot, and there are many terrible players who will hit that shot. Lebron has hit that shot before, did it against the Celtics in last years playoffs, yet people still talk about how he can't close. I guarantee you if he hit that shot, it wouldn't have changed anyone's mind on if he can close or not. People choose what they want to believe, regardless of facts being thrown in their face. DWade plays terrible until the final quarter, and gets credit for basically winning the game. Lebron gives everything the whole game and because he misses one shot, people are saying he's overrated. Please.

You have more excuses for LeBron then Juan Epstein's mother! He put up very good numbers. I'm not denying it. So did Scottie Pippen. But you don't want either taking the shot when the pressure is on. He missed 2 shots that could have put the game away in regulation. Instead he missed a LAY UP then a horrible fade away jumper. He doesn't have the killer instinct that Wade has. Noting wrong with that but you can't be the greatest of all time without it

[RubberMallet]

jordan from 1984-1990 SUCKED.

haha sucked huh? Slightly exagerrated, but he did suck in washington, what's your point exactly?

apparently rings are all the matters. that always is a hilarious argument when talking about team sports. the point is, jordan was one of the greatest already without any rings. lebron will not be one of the greatest but he will be great like malone, he will be one of the top 25 players ever without one. he'll move up plenty with just 1.

your hatred as you have already admitted is blinding you and thats fine. I HATE with a passion patrick ewing and think he is totally overrated but thats probably because i'm a bulls fan.

haize i think is either trolling or drunk....his hilariously awful comparison to pippen makes me wonder if he even watches basketball anymore. yet i get railed on for putting lebron and jordan anywhere near each other in a group of words?

[RubberMallet]

jordan from 1984-1990 SUCKED.

Check the stats and get back to us on that one.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... bile=false

welcome to the world of sarcasm. please enjoy your stay.

[adam42381]

jordan from 1984-1990 SUCKED.

Check the stats and get back to us on that one.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... bile=false

welcome to the world of sarcasm. please enjoy your stay.

Duly noted. I missed it.

[LUconn]

I blame ESPN for these tired arguments of greatness being defined by rings and clutchness.

[jcmanson]

I blame ESPN for these tired arguments of greatness being defined by rings and clutchness.

THIS and mainly one @RealSkipBayless

[RubberMallet]

it infuriates me when people talk about wins being a statistic to judge pitchers off of. somewhat offtopic.

[thepostman]

jordan from 1984-1990 SUCKED.

haha sucked huh? Slightly exagerrated, but he did suck in washington, what's your point exactly?

apparently rings are all the matters. that always is a hilarious argument when talking about team sports. the point is, jordan was one of the greatest already without any rings. lebron will not be one of the greatest but he will be great like malone, he will be one of the top 25 players ever without one. he'll move up plenty with just 1.

your hatred as you have already admitted is blinding you and thats fine. I HATE with a passion patrick ewing and think he is totally overrated but thats probably because i'm a bulls fan.

haize i think is either trolling or drunk....his hilariously awful comparison to pippen makes me wonder if he even watches basketball anymore. yet i get railed on for putting lebron and jordan anywhere near each other in a group of words?

have you not read how many times I have said he is one of the most talented players to EVER play in the NBA?? He isn't great, to me great players win (thank you BJ for pointing out my lack of caring about proofreading) championships. Calling people great is something I think that people in the espn age have kind of watered down.

Anyways we aren't going to change eachothers minds but I just wanted to say once again I think Lebron is arguably the most talented player in the league today, I just don't think he is great.

[Schfourteenteen]

I blame ESPN for these tired arguments of greatness being defined by rings and clutchness.

Thank you. Each player has 2 chances(negotiated contracts) to put themselves in a position to win a championship. Every player is at the mercy of their GM. It's time to stop valuing the number of rings over the thousand plus games these guys log in.

What do Wilt, Larry, Michael, Oscar, Shaq, LeBron, and Robert Horry have in common? They could never win a championship with the Charlotte Bobcats roster around them.

[lynchburgwildcats]

The notion that you can only be a clutch player if you hit game winners consistently is one of the most ignorant ideas in basketball. It's a 40 minute game. Is LeBron not clutch when he dominates end to end in a blowout close out game? Winning close out games is what "clutch" players do since it puts the team one round closer to winning the championship.

Oh what the he'll am I talking about, you can only be clutch if you are awesome on one possession.