[Purple Haize]

People who hold Jesus Christ as the only God have a difficult time voting for a man who believes he will one day be a god and have god babies. -TallyW

Which goes to the point of asking what about those who DON'T have that issue? It's an easy inference. Unless you would like to walk back your statement you are questioning peoples faith based on a political vote. I have not created the straw man. You are the one railing against having a Mormon in the White House, not me.

Nice self dialogue. I didn't know you could speak for Jesus. In my world the prayer would go
Jesus, I want to vote for Romney
Why
Because I think he is better for America then the current President. I feel he will side with people of faith on the issues.
Ok
But he is Mormon
You realize I am God, right?
Yes, it's difficult to forget
Then don't worry about it.

Of corse that is separating the spiritual from the political, a trait you repeatedly show you don't have.
As for comparing Mormonism and Catholicsm I wasn't saying they were the same. I was saying that there are plenty of theologians and pastors who feel that they are also a cult and going to hell. Sure, you may say it is neglecting 90% of the Bible, but then you are neglecting that pesky 10%.

[TallyW]

This is getting largely ridiculous.


Tally / NotaJerry -

What if Liberty is political? Where you have been the past 40 years? Isn't that kind of the point? And what is wrong with it? Are Republican beliefs not more in line with Christianity than those of Democrats? This country is in turmoil, both politically and spiritually. Don't you think we need more Bible believing political conservatives? I sure do! The more people we can lead to Christ - AND political conservatism is a good thing don't you think?


Also...A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for Obama. I made that mistake in 2008 and will not repeat it again. I am a Ron Paul guy...donate to the Campaign for Liberty...but I will not vote for him, not until we have a legitimate Libertarian party in this country and we can win elections from the GROUND up. That DOES NOT start with voting for the president. Libertarians need to win local and statewide elections first before we're ready to elect federal reps and senators...only then will a true Libertarian be electable in the White House.

Until then, take the lesser of two evils!!!

I've been affiliated with LU since 1996. This is the first decision I've ever seen that has caused me to be disappointed in the administration. Believe me, there have been plenty of missteps along the way but I've always been a loyal supporter. This crosses the line of our faith and it does bother me.

This is not simply about preference of a speaker. I don't care. Frankly the last 5 years have been fairly weak if my memory serves me.

This is about the fact that alumni around the world have been taught that Mormonism is a cult but now for politics sake we are ready to line our University's influence behind a Mormon for President. We did not need to do this. The University has been doing extremely well. This was not a necessary blunder.

I'm glad to hear that you have bought into the pressure to vote for Romney because you have to... I won't vote for a person who tells me I'm an apostate and that Jesus Christ is not the Messiah as the scriptures say that he is.

[TallyW]

People who hold Jesus Christ as the only God have a difficult time voting for a man who believes he will one day be a god and have god babies. -TallyW

Which goes to the point of asking what about those who DON'T have that issue? It's an easy inference. Unless you would like to walk back your statement you are questioning peoples faith based on a political vote.

There is nothing to walk back. I cannot see how a person who claims to have the Holy Spirit of God living in them (a born again Christian) can say that they heard from God on who to vote for and what God told them was that they should be so afraid of a professing Christian that they don't like to the point that they vote for a man who has spent his entire life denying Jesus as Lord.

If you can square that circle, go right ahead.

I do not believe that God is supportive of His people voting for a politician who presently and actively works to wipe Christ's name off of the map as we know it. Apparently you honestly believe that (while listening to the Holy Spirit) that the Holy Spirit would tell you... "Vote for that guy... the one who denies me outright and calls you apostate for believing in me."

[Purple Haize]

There is nothing to walk back. I cannot see how a person who claims to have the Holy Spirit of God living in them (a born again Christian) can say that they heard from God on who to vote for and what God told them was that they should be so afraid of a professing Christian that they don't like to the point that they vote for a man who has spent his entire life denying Jesus as Lord.

If you can square that circle, go right ahead.

I do not believe that God is supportive of His people voting for a politician who presently and actively works to wipe Christ's name off of the map as we know it. Apparently you honestly believe that (while listening to the Holy Spirit) that the Holy Spirit would tell you... "Vote for that guy... the one who denies me outright and calls you apostate for believing in me."

Which professing Christian am I scared of again?
I am actually voting for the POTUS, which is not a theocracy or church. Therefore, as a born again Christian, I see no issue with voting for someone who is qualified for the position of President, and a man of moral character.
Again with you last paragraph you assert what you also deny. Where, in any of Mitt Romneys statement, writings or speeches has he actively sought to wipe Christs name of the map as we know it? That's just crazy talk. Earlier you said Romney WOULDN'T prosthlitze from the White House now you are saying he will bring the downfall of Christianity. Make up your mind.
Finally, there are no perfect candidates. I'm fairly certain God knows that. I'm also a believer in free will, and not just RUSH's version, and think God will want us to make the best with what we have to work with. Right now, IMO, that is Romney, NOT Obama

[Hold My Own]

Tally, this is a honest question but would you have been in favor of Thomas Jefferson speaking if he were alive today?

[jbock13]

It would seem to me that NAJ worships Ron Paul, not God.

You really are an arrogant bottom feeder. One of us spent half a decade living off less than 3k per year to serve a people group in the US that most Christians don't even acknowledge. One of us has been a youth pastor across multiple denominations for a decade. One of us is an ordained deacon in a denomination where that role is solely about reaching out to the poor in our church and the surrounding neighborhoods.

And one of us "knows" everything about Ron Paul voters because he sits in class with a couple of them.

Lol, we all know Ron Paul supporters. I just use the ones in my class as a perfect example. Believe me, I know politics. But hey, at least I don't go around daily looking for things to dump my alma mater over.

As for an arrogant bottom feeder, I'll take that as a compliment

[Purple Haize]

JBock- that's actually a promotion for you!

[Purple Haize]

Tally, this is a honest question but would you have been in favor of Thomas Jefferson speaking if he were alive today?

No. He slept with black people, owned slaves and studied the Koran!

[jbock13]

JBock- that's actually a promotion for you!

At least I'm no longer the scum of the earth in every conceivable way! (note: he didn't say that about me though)

[Hold My Own]

Tally, this is a honest question but would you have been in favor of Thomas Jefferson speaking if he were alive today?

No. He slept with black people, owned slaves and studied the Koran!

Haha, ok pretend that didnt happen. I mean from a theology standpoint yet, still one of the most important people in our history.

[Purple Haize]

JBock- that's actually a promotion for you!

At least I'm no longer the scum of the earth in every conceivable way! (note: he didn't say that about me though)

I think it was about me!

[Purple Haize]

Tally, this is a honest question but would you have been in favor of Thomas Jefferson speaking if he were alive today?

No. He slept with black people, owned slaves and studied the Koran!

Haha, ok pretend that didnt happen. I mean from a theology standpoint yet, still one of the most important people in our history.

If he is intellectual honest he'd have to rule out a bunch of the Founding Fathers. I'd appreciate hearing from Ben Franklin. I'm sure his Secret Service detail would LOVE him

[jbock13]

JBock- that's actually a promotion for you!

At least I'm no longer the scum of the earth in every conceivable way! (note: he didn't say that about me though)

I think it was about me!

No, that was Mitt Romney. But I'm seriously considering adding being called an arrogant bottom feeder to my signature. But is that really better than a SJL quote?

[logic]

I am still not understanding this from the Tally POV....


You're upset that Liberty is supporting Romney based on the fact that you do not believe the same thing he does spiritually? And you think that by allowing him to speak here Liberty is validating the LDS? What if Liberty is simply supporting the political beliefs and not the religion? Ever thought of that? I see no problem with supporting someone's politics while not supporting their religion?!?!

Bottom line is that politically conservative Mormons, Jews, Catholics, Protestants, Evangelicals, etc, all need to quit their b*tching, suck it up, get along, and vote Obama OUT of the White House or we're going to have the United States of Greece by 2016. Either come together politically regardless of spiritual differences or die In early November!

And Tally - FYI, I would have absolutely no problem voting for someone who told me Jesus wasn't the Son of God if I agreed with him/her politically...ESPECIALLY of the alternative is much, much worse!

Here is a question for you -

You have two options -

Vote for an atheist for president who is pro-life
Vote for a self proclaimed "Bible believing Christian" who is pro-choice?

Answer seems pretty simple doesn't it? Don't let the religious dogma spoil conservative policy!!

And as far as Mormons...what did BYU do to their star basketball player? What did we do to our star football player? Their "honor code" makes the Liberty Way look like childs play!! It's been said before...guarantee that Romney is a better "Christian" when it comes to moral victories than a lot of so called "Christian" men out there...but hey, its ok, we can just ask for forgiveness right?

Get over it!

[thepostman]

A vote for (fill in the blank) is a vote for that person and nobody else. The sooner people start really believing that the sooner this country begins to actually see people with different ideas running this thing.

I know that has nothing to do with commencement at Liberty but that doesn't affect me. Moronic thinking like that has and will continue to affect me personally...that is all. Continue with your annual pointless debate about whether Liberty has "lost their way".

[Purple Haize]

I feel absolutely sick to my stomach right now. I took logic of ignore and found that we agree for the most part. I need some alone time in my thoughts. Anyone seen my sack cloth? Spare ashes anyone?

[TallyW]

Tally, this is a honest question but would you have been in favor of Thomas Jefferson speaking if he were alive today?

As a deist he didn't actively work to convert Christians away from Christianity. So no, I don't know that I would have the same concerns.

Part of my point is being made in the framing of your question. You have to go back to 1800 before you can think of another president we've ever had who publicly denied the deity of Jesus Christ. Apparently some of you guys see no problem there. Desperate times call for desperate measures huh?

Whatever it takes to justify a vote for someone who actively pursues the denial of Christ as Lord...

[BJWilliams]

If I was a non-Christian viewing this board to be frank its discussions like this and the way some of you have been acting (especially you NAJ and Tally) that would make me think "if this is what Christians are like to each other, I want no part of it". That would drive more people away from Christianity and toward something like Mormonism than a speech that a very high percentage of people outside of Lynchburg probably wont watch.

[TallyW]

Reasons "logic" should change his name:

I am still not understanding this from the Tally POV....

1. (Wishful Thinking) What if Liberty is simply supporting the political beliefs and not the religion?
2. (Appeal to fear) Bottom line is that politically conservative Mormons, Jews, Catholics, Protestants, Evangelicals, etc, all need to quit their b*tching, suck it up, get along, and vote Obama OUT of the White House or we're going to have the United States of Greece by 2016. Either come together politically regardless of spiritual differences or die In early November!
3. (Appeal to fear) And Tally - FYI, I would have absolutely no problem voting for someone who told me Jesus wasn't the Son of God if I agreed with him/her politically...ESPECIALLY of the alternative is much, much worse!
4. (False dichotomy)
Here is a question for you -
You have two options -

Vote for an atheist for president who is pro-life
Vote for a self proclaimed "Bible believing Christian" who is pro-choice?

----

In other news:

Answer seems pretty simple doesn't it? Don't let the religious dogma spoil conservative policy!!

We wouldn't want that now would we logic. Don't let that pesky little thing called Lordship get in the way of good old biblical republicanism. It's the G.O.P before the G.O.D.... I hear ya.

And as far as Mormons...what did BYU do to their star basketball player? What did we do to our star football player? Their "honor code" makes the Liberty Way look like childs play!! It's been said before...guarantee that Romney is a better "Christian" when it comes to moral victories than a lot of so called "Christian" men out there...but hey, its ok, we can just ask for forgiveness right?

Let me get this straight... You're backing up your support of the administrations current decision by pointing to your disappointment with their previous decision? You are one smart cookie. You really should keep the name logic. Fits like a glove.

Get over it!

Well, now that you said that with such force, I have no more concerns.

Because you name yourself 'logic' does not make you so. Because you use exclamation points doesn't make you more right and because you appeal to people's fears for political desires doesn't mean Christians should get behind your disregard for Christ as Lord. Some things are far more important than a political party. Romney is not your savior... or is he?

[TallyW]

If I was a non-Christian viewing this board to be frank its discussions like this and the way some of you have been acting (especially you NAJ and Tally) that would make me think "if this is what Christians are like to each other, I want no part of it". That would drive more people away from Christianity and toward something like Mormonism than a speech that a very high percentage of people outside of Lynchburg probably wont watch.

I love it when Christians pretend to be non-Christians for a few minutes and assume what would or wouldn't drive them to and from Christ. I also love it when they presume that the people who would drive them away are the ones who hold opposing views to their own... rather convenient how it all works out like that.

[alabama24]

I certainly don't like the tone that much of this conversation has taken. I do agree with much of what Tally has written, but I am not opposed to Romney speaking. I would hope that the administration has respectfully asked Romney to avoid religious themes (other than perhaps religious freedom, but that isn't a prime issue in this campaign).

There were some posts that I would like to briefly comment on:

Isn't Ben Stein a Jew? He's spoken at graduation, what's the difference between him and having Mitt Romney speak?

My concern is not that we are having someone speak who disagrees with our theological positions. My concern is the Romney masquerades as a "christian."

....and I might add that calling yourself a Christian, as President Obama does, does not mean you ARE a Christian

Right. And Romney claims he is a "Christian." [The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints... like Ragu, its in there!]

Tally, this is a honest question but would you have been in favor of Thomas Jefferson speaking if he were alive today?

I would. I am not opposed to anyone who is respectful of our views, wether they agree with them or not. I certainly don't want them pandering to me though.

You seem to view Romney as some sort of mormon sleeper cell.

Well, he IS mormon!

Some of you are so excited to get rid of Obama that you're not giving long-term consideration to what you are openly promoting... the continued decline of evangelical Christianity and the continued climb of Mormonism as a normal Christian denomination.

[LUconn]

Beej, There's nothing wrong with the way Tally is acting. He disagrees. And if you're of his opinion, that's certainly worth arguing about.

[TallyW]

Beej, There's nothing wrong with the way Tally is acting. He disagrees. And if you're of his opinion, that's certainly worth arguing about.

Thanks LUconn. I appreciate your understanding of the value of this to me. If people don't hold my view, fine... but if you see this issue as I do... it is a vital issue to raise. It's no small matter.

As I mentioned earlier, I've been part of the TRBC/LU family since 1996... (I know, not as long as many of you here)... and to this day I'm very much connected. I love Liberty and I love TRBC.

Dr. Falwell was a national figure who understood clearly the signals he was sending through his endorsements and invitations of guests. I honestly believe this decision was agreed to before thinking things through. I really do. Once you announce a presidential candidate there is little that can be done to walk that back. Even if Jerry Jr. felt he made a mistake, it's too late. For him to pull his public support would be catastrophe for the Romney campaign as it would highlight this evangelical problem and make it nearly impossible that Romney could ever win the evangelical vote.

I believe I see what the Romney campaign sees... a religious hurdle... not a policy hurdle. I do not like the fact that an evangelical institution is helping Romney (and by proxy the LDS) make a national effort to further lull evangelicals to sleep on our differences which happen to be extraordinarily significant.

Whether people understand it or not... we are helping the LDS church accomplish what they could not do on their own which is to make evangelicals more comfortable with Mormons as "one of us". The layperson in the pew doesn't understand how the LDS church uses our language but means DRASTICALLY different things. All Liberty is doing is clouding this already murky water. This is unnecessary and unhelpful to the cause of Christ.

[Purple Haize]

Tally this is the part of your argument that really makes no sense. How exactly are we endorsing Mormonism? It would seem to me that this is a great opportunity for Evangelicals to draw a distinction with the LDS. Yes we had the GOP nominee as our speaker. Yes he is a Mormon. No, we do not believe the same things and here is where we differ.... Easy peesy.
And again, where is your proof of conspiracy between LU and the LDS to form this unholy evil alliance bent on wiping Christianity as we know it off the map? It seems you have a problem with Mormons as people and they are intelligible to hold public office.

[Purple Haize]

'Bama. I can't stand Ragu. I prefer Prego and think it is a far superior product.
I also think my statement could fit both Presidential candidates.