[TDDance234]

If we don't get bigger and more athletic, we will never have a winning record again. Our current offensive/defensive schemes are not working and will never work.

They worked pretty well last year, didn't they?

[LUconn]

guys, ballcoach has previously stated that he literally thinks the reason Maryland wasn't any good this year was because of their ugly uniforms. I'm pretty sure this is just someone yanking our chain.

[bballfan84]

We have at least two very good JUCOs coming in for next year..we will be fine.

[lynchburgwildcats]

Winning does "cure all". But I do not see LU winning anytime soon. Face it folks, we do not have a good team. Almost every team , if not all that come into Vines Center are bigger and more athletic than us. We need to recruit and sign better talent.

Bigger and more athletic does not always translate into success.

And how many good D1 teams aren't big (or at least play big, think like a Charles Barkley playing big) and/or athletic?

[Purple Haize]

Winning does "cure all". But I do not see LU winning anytime soon. Face it folks, we do not have a good team. Almost every team , if not all that come into Vines Center are bigger and more athletic than us. We need to recruit and sign better talent.

Bigger and more athletic does not always translate into success.

And how many good D1 teams aren't big (or at least play big, think like a Charles Barkley playing big) and/or athletic?

Well there is a difference. A 6'4" kid (Charles Barkley) can play big and a 7' can play small. Magic Johnson was 6'9" but didn't play nearly as big as Charles Oakley 6'8".
No one would call Wisconsin overly athletic, yet they consistently win year in, year out. UVA is having a tremendous year and you really couldn't call them big or athletic.
As for the players and the system, as was stated earlier, it worked pretty well last year. What didn't work too well last year was chemistry. Great team chemistry cann make up for a multitude of short comings.

[From the class of 09]

Great team chemistry cann make up for a multitude of short comings.

If we can have that with big and athletic it can be a lot more fun. Although ultimately winning is fun.

[Purple Haize]

Winning does "cure all". But I do not see LU winning anytime soon. Face it folks, we do not have a good team. Almost every team , if not all that come into Vines Center are bigger and more athletic than us. We need to recruit and sign better talent.

ballcoach15 look out for expressing the obvious Purple Haize will call you gutless.

There is a world of difference between ballcoach and The Gutless Wonder. One has an axe to grind one just states banal observations. Ballcoach at least attempts to keep on the topic at hand. I agree with him that this years team is not very good, but disagree with his observation that our scenes are broken. He lays blame wher it should be put, at the foot of the head coach, and I disagree with that as well. Unlike Gutless Wonder he keeps the discussion focused on the present.
On a side note I always chuckle at the 'we need to recruit more talent' argument. As if there are coaches out there saying ' ya know, I like this kid but I just think he is too talented for our roster'

[Purple Haize]

Great team chemistry cann make up for a multitude of short comings.

If we can have that with big and athletic it can be a lot more fun. Although ultimately winning is fun.

It is something all coaches strive for! And I agree 100%

[ballcoach15]

I have seen most LU home games the past 5 years. I know what I am talking about. I could "dig deeper", but do not want to make anyone too mad.

[Purple Haize]

I have seen most LU home games the past 5 years. I know what I am talking about. I could "dig deeper", but do not want to make anyone too mad.

Well as a 'ballcoach' wouldn't you agree that what you see in a game is not necessarily what you see in practice? I think his system can be successful. Is it a system I would/do use? No. But that n no way invalidates what is and is not successful. Bob Knight swore by man to man and had a pretty good career. Jim Boheim swears by zone defense and he has had a pretty solid career. Dean Smith had a nice run with the 4 corners and Rick Pitino has had a good career pushing the ball up the court. And Jim Calipari has had a great run with his 'money' offense

[sporter]

I have seen most LU home games the past 5 years. I know what I am talking about. I could "dig deeper", but do not want to make anyone too mad.

Well as a 'ballcoach' wouldn't you agree that what you see in a game is not necessarily what you see in practice? I think his system can be successful. Is it a system I would/do use? No. But that n no way invalidates what is and is not successful. Bob Knight swore by man to man and had a pretty good career. Jim Boheim swears by zone defense and he has had a pretty solid career. Dean Smith had a nice run with the 4 corners and Rick Pitino has had a good career pushing the ball up the court. And Jim Calipari has had a great run with his 'money' offense

Good post. My issue, albeit after only watching 7-9 entire games over the past two years, is that I can't figure out exactly what our "system" is. What defines Coach Layer's system? Do we push the ball inside? Shoot the three? Motion set up to allow the guards to penetrate and kick? Defensively it seems we would like to play a hard nosed half court man (last year's group was excellent at that at times) so that I get but the offense is always where to me we lack the identity. Not hating and not neccessarily criticizing but curious to get yours and anyone else's take on it.

[BJWilliams]

I have seen most LU home games the past 5 years. I know what I am talking about. I could "dig deeper", but do not want to make anyone too mad.

Well as a 'ballcoach' wouldn't you agree that what you see in a game is not necessarily what you see in practice? I think his system can be successful. Is it a system I would/do use? No. But that n no way invalidates what is and is not successful. Bob Knight swore by man to man and had a pretty good career. Jim Boheim swears by zone defense and he has had a pretty solid career. Dean Smith had a nice run with the 4 corners and Rick Pitino has had a good career pushing the ball up the court. And Jim Calipari has had a great run with his 'money' offense

Good post. My issue, albeit after only watching 7-9 entire games over the past two years, is that I can't figure out exactly what our "system" is. What defines Coach Layer's system? Do we push the ball inside? Shoot the three? Motion set up to allow the guards to penetrate and kick? Defensively it seems we would like to play a hard nosed half court man (last year's group was excellent at that at times) so that I get but the offense is always where to me we lack the identity. Not hating and not neccessarily criticizing but curious to get yours and anyone else's take on it.

I actually would have to agree with you on the point about us not having a "system" sporter. I think thats the reason why we really arent consistent. When Larry Blair was here (and to some degree Seth Curry and maybe even Anthony Smith) it was "give the ball to (insert name here) and let him do everything and occasionally move around". I think if we had the guys to do it, I wouldnt mind us trying something like they run at Grinnell or VMI or even Loyola Marymount in the Hank Gathers (RIP) Bo Kimble years. Heck, why not try the triangle offense or something...

[lynchburgwildcats]

Bigger and more athletic does not always translate into success.

And how many good D1 teams aren't big (or at least play big, think like a Charles Barkley playing big) and/or athletic?

Well there is a difference. A 6'4" kid (Charles Barkley) can play big and a 7' can play small. Magic Johnson was 6'9" but didn't play nearly as big as Charles Oakley 6'8".
No one would call Wisconsin overly athletic, yet they consistently win year in, year out. UVA is having a tremendous year and you really couldn't call them big or athletic.
As for the players and the system, as was stated earlier, it worked pretty well last year. What didn't work too well last year was chemistry. Great team chemistry cann make up for a multitude of short comings.

So Devin Harris, Michael Finley, and Alando Tucker aren't athletic? Interesting. Jordan Taylor and Ryan Evans are most certainly athletic. But you know what else Wisconsin is? Big, and their guys play big.

Mike Scott, MIchael Brogdon, and Jontel Evans aren't athletic now? UVa is also big, Sene is 7-0 and Scott 6-8...

Find another example. If a team isn't big, they have to be athletic to win (think Missouri). If they don't have some athletic players, well then they likely aren't going to be all that good unless they have something else that is supremely good. You aren't going to find a good D1 team that is lacking both. Heck, you won't find a good D2, D3, or NAIA team that is lacking both. Chemistry is what a team needs to get beyond good, chemistry isn't going to make a team good if it doesn't have the talent to be good...

[From the class of 09]

Butler circa 2010

[jinxy]

I still follow UVA a good bit and this UVA team is def. not an athletic team. Mike Scott never was/is overly athletic. He never has thrown down highlight reel jams, dribbled off defenders, or hopped 5 feet in the air for rebounds. He's a silky smooth 6'8 shooter that plays within himself and passes the ball very well for a big man. He's not projected to get drafted because of his lack of athleticism. Jontel is very athletic, I would agree with that, but he can't shoot a lick so nobody every defends him. Brogdon is athletic in that he's one of the backup point guards but if you put him at his natural position he doesn't look over athletic. As far as being big, Sene will essentailly miss the entire ACC slate leaving you with Scott, Atkins, and a 6'7 Akil Mitchell who is very athletic. Bennett has said himself this is not a super athletic team but they have bought into his defense and they hustle like crazy.

To the LU discussion. We don't have the sheer athletes we need to win consistenly, i would agree with that. How to get them here and keep them here seems to be the issue. I dont know what to do, basketball just seems to be stuck.

[lynchburgwildcats]

Butler circa 2010

Apparently you have forgotten about Gordon Hayward, Ronald Nored, Shelvin Mack, and Avery Jukes. Hayward dunks on people in the NBA. Matt Howard also played bigger than his 6'8" listed height.

[thepostman]

What? I post actual data supporting the fact that ToC is completely delusional and he doesn't respond??? SHOCKING!!!!!

[truthorconsequences]

What? I post actual data supporting the fact that ToC is completely delusional and he doesn't respond??? SHOCKING!!!!!

you obviously buy into the performance level of our major sports. continue to applaud the process and we will see when the next championship arrives in Lynchburg.

[BJWilliams]

and as if on cue by some Pavlovian reflex...

[NotAJerry]

UVa is also big, Sene is 7-0 and Scott 6-8...

If one 7 footer and one 6-8 is enough to be big, then we are 1 inch short since JVP is 6-10 and Tomasz 6-9.

[Purple Haize]

So Devin Harris, Michael Finley, and Alando Tucker aren't athletic? Interesting. Jordan Taylor and Ryan Evans are most certainly athletic. But you know what else Wisconsin is? Big, and their guys play big.

Mike Scott, MIchael Brogdon, and Jontel Evans aren't athletic now? UVa is also big, Sene is 7-0 and Scott 6-8...

Find another example. If a team isn't big, they have to be athletic to win (think Missouri). If they don't have some athletic players, well then they likely aren't going to be all that good unless they have something else that is supremely good. You aren't going to find a good D1 team that is lacking both. Heck, you won't find a good D2, D3, or NAIA team that is lacking both. Chemistry is what a team needs to get beyond good, chemistry isn't going to make a team good if it doesn't have the talent to be good...

That's my point. Wisconsin is not and have never been loaded with athletes. Were Harris Finley and Tucker on the court together? They have big guys who play big. I played against Michael Findley and while was more athletic then me, he was also a beast. ( and lets be honest Gomer Pyle was probably more athletic then me!) Thus a long career in the NBA. Wisconsin from 1-5 is not overly athletic, thus proving my point. They have one or 2 STRONG athletic players and that's it. They have some corn and milk fed beef under the boards and maybe a shooter. They score over 60 points it's like scoring 100 for other teams!
Butler was another good example. Heywood was about as athletic as Kyle Singler. Mack was their athlete but the rest of their players were not.
Missouri throws out a crap load of athletes, ala Arkansas, and gets after it. That would be a style opposed to Wisconsin. Neither is superior to the other, they just are.

[thepostman]

What? I post actual data supporting the fact that ToC is completely delusional and he doesn't respond??? SHOCKING!!!!!

you obviously buy into the performance level of our major sports. continue to applaud the process and we will see when the next championship arrives in Lynchburg.

I obviously don't. I have been VERY critical of this team and have questioned Coach Layer's philosophy at times. You pointed out the poor attendance during a bad season so I went back and found the attendance during one of RD's bad seasons for a Saturday game and the attendance was virtually identical!

My point is attendance has more to do with performance. We aren't performing well, much like we weren't performing well at this time in 2006.

Of course you don't directly respond to that, you simply lump me into a group I don't belong to because that's easy for you. Its hard for you to admit that things were not that great even when RD was here. It would require you to be objective and that is something you clearly have never been interested in doing.

[Purple Haize]

POSTY Welcome to the Mislabeled Kool Aid Klub. Would you like Wild Cherry or Fruit Punch?

[From the class of 09]

Butler circa 2010

Apparently you have forgotten about Gordon Hayward, Ronald Nored, Shelvin Mack, and Avery Jukes. Hayward dunks on people in the NBA. Matt Howard also played bigger than his 6'8" listed height.

Sure most of these guys are athletic when compared to this board but when compared to other DI players...Mack and Hayward kinda. If Hayward isn't 6-8 he is an average athlete imo. I'm not saying having athletes isn't helpful or beneficial to win games but it is possible to win games with a more average cast.

[ballcoach15]

We need scorer who can get 15-20 points every night, need a better "5", and need a stronger bench. I know this is asking for a lot, but until we get it.....................................