[thepostman]

Yeah its totally fine to admit when you were wrong in something. I don't think anybody would think badly of it. I realize its a tough thing to do, but I think in this circumstance it really is warranted.

[Schfourteenteen]

And, by the way, nothing unexpected by Liberty or Mr. Chapman has occurred in any of the legal proceedings to date.

Surprise!


I hope

[JLFJR]

I just got back from New England and saw the news finally broke. Then, I read this thread and wondered if there was some other news story out there that I hadn't seen.

Here are the facts, including the ones that I did not feel comfortable releasing until today:

(1) I learned on September 16 (before the JMU game) from Asa Chapman's attorney that all charges against him would be dropped and that he would be placed on probation for one year under Virginia's first offender law.

(2) I communicated this information to our deans and the AD, who relayed it to Coach Rocco.

(3) Our deans had already reviewed Asa Chapman's record and found that he also qualified for Liberty's first offender program. As difficult as it seems to be for some of you to understand, it would have been wrong for Liberty's deans to not allow Asa Chapman to go into Liberty's Restorative Justice Program because VP Hine and Dean Anderson enacted a new policy over a year ago that provided a second chance for all first time alcohol and drug offenders to enter this program on probation. Since all other similarly situated students were given that second chance, it would have been wrong to treat Asa more harshly because he was a prominent football player. In fact, it would have possibly created a legal liability for Liberty. Under the law, private schools are expected to make their own rules but they are required to apply those rules equally among students. Failure to do so creates the potential of legal action being taken against the school by the student who is treated less favorably than all the rest. (One reason VP Hine and Dean Anderson created this second-chance Restorative Justice Program was because, for 15 or 20 years prior to its enactment, many first offenders were given a second chance but not all were. That was a problem that needed to be corrected.)

And Purple, as I said before, whether Asa had self-reported or not, the end result would have been the same in this case. He technically did meet the definition of self-reporting to the deans but, even if he had not, it would not have mattered.

(4) I learned after the JMU game that Coach Rocco had decided to reinstate Asa to the team. As I have said repeatedly in this thread, the coach had the responsibility to decide when or if to reinstate him to team play. I learned from the AD that the coach had consulted a sports consulting firm to see what was the customary practice among NCAA coaches in similar situations. The coach made his decision after much prayer, research, due diligence and counseling with Asa Chapman, I was also told. I decided not to overrule the coach for the reasons I have repeated in this thread over and over and, if I had it to do over again, I would do nothing any differently. This does not mean I agreed with the decision or disagreed with it. I didn't have firsthand knowledge of the situation like the coach did and was not in a position to make that call. To overrule the coach would have been a clear statement to the team that the administration had no faith in his judgment and would have undermined his authority and credibility with the team. As I said before, I would fire a coach before I would micro-manage his coaching decisions and reverse him.

I don't know what went through the coach's mind in his decision process. Maybe, he concluded that, since the State of Virginia has passed laws that give first offenders like Asa Chapman a second chance and, since Liberty University's Conduct Code gives first offenders like Asa Chapman a second chance and, since a good number of NCAA coaches give first offenders like Asa Chapman a second chance when there is no criminal conviction, then maybe a Christian football coach should give him a second chance and be at least as forgiving as many secular coaches.

I am not saying I agree 100% with his decision but I simply was not willing to fire him over this decision either.

And, Purple, you, TTL, TDDance and adam are definitely still on the Christmas card list but I have to admit I hope I never see any of you guys in the jury box if I am ever being tried for a crime!

[alabama24]

Thanks for clarifying things for us chancellor. Although I believe the suspension should have been longer, I am now more than satisfied that your administration handled the situation well (other than not hiring SLY for PR, of course).

[JLFJR]

Thanks Alabama. I am with you on both points! (the length of the suspension and SLY, I mean)

[SuperJon]

I get it. I don't like it or agree with it (the reinstatement, not Jr's decision not to reverse it - I agree with that) but I get it. The unfortunate thing is we'll never hear Rocco's side of the story now and he looks even worse because of it. I always wanted to hear what he'd say.

[Purple Haize]

JLFR the points you make do not suprise me. Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I have absolutely no problem with LU allowing Asa to stay in school and go through restorative justice or whatever it is called.
My issue has always been allowing him to remain on the football team. This is where we differ in the definition of micro management. Just looking at your first point, it would have been easy to say, 'let's let things play out before he is reinstated'. This is not micro management. Micromanagement is telling a coach what offense or defense to run. Or what players to recruit. Telling a coach that a player who has pending felony drug charges to keep him out until things clear up is protecting the University, team player and all involved.

To your second point, the AD, who theoretically is the supervisor of the football coach could have done the same thing.
Third point, same goes for the Deans. Would an RA be allowed to remain in that position under the same circumstances?
Your fourth point, at least to me is the easiest to understand. I'm the coach. I have a key player who s not playing. Since no one told me I CAN''T play him, let's suit him up. It's not a decision as a coach I would make but I know many who would.
You are right, after that point things would get dicey trying to keep him off the team. My point is, and backed up by your post, there were AMPLE opportunities for some one to step in and say 'Stop now. What's that sound. Everybody look what's goin round...'. The fact that this was not done is what I find disheartening.
Having said all that, its over. Hopefully if it happens again it will be handled differently. But with this new staff I have confident that we won't have to worry about it
Of course everyone wants to know if you were in New England campaigning for Newt, Mitt, Rick or Ron!

[flamesfan30]

so, the charges were supposed to be dropped when the decision was made to reinstate him. why were they never dropped? because he was guilty. but this article http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2012/j ... r-1602133/ says he was actually remorseful, repentant, and cooperative.

bottom line, rocco should have waited for the charges to actually be dropped before reinstating him.

[truthorconsequences]

so, the charges were supposed to be dropped when the decision was made to reinstate him. why were they never dropped? because he was guilty. but this article http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2012/j ... r-1602133/ says he was actually remorseful, repentant, and cooperative.

bottom line, rocco should have waited for the charges to actually be dropped before reinstating him.

Ding...Ding...Ding Danny Rocco and Jeff Barber both should have never put the Chancellor and University in this position..period. Both should be fired. It is an easy one...you don't get reinstated until the charges are dropped...not we have to make our policies look like a circus publicly to justify that trying to win football games superceded the laws of our society. Sad chapter of for LU athletics. The Chancellor would make a huge statement by cleaning house.

[Purple Haize]

ToC. I agree that he should not have been reinstated to the football team until all the legal issues cleared up. However, firing the AD at this point is akin to closing the barn doors after the cows got out. There was ample opportunity for everyone to make that choice prior to reinstatement, but no one chose to do so.
And for those paying attention, we just hired anew football coach, I don't think we should fire him for what they old football coach did

[flamehunter]

ToC. I sorta agree with the sentiment but that would be like closing the barn doors after the horses have escaped. From the football coach on up, there was the opportunity to make that choice.
And for those paying attention, we just hired anew football coach, I don't think we should fire him for what the old football coach did

Haize I think we all know what TorC's ulterior motive is. Any collateral damage would be ok, even if it entailed firing our brand new coach, the entire staff, janitors and ticket lady.

[adam42381]

so, the charges were supposed to be dropped when the decision was made to reinstate him. why were they never dropped? because he was guilty. but this article http://www2.newsadvance.com/news/2012/j ... r-1602133/ says he was actually remorseful, repentant, and cooperative.

bottom line, rocco should have waited for the charges to actually be dropped before reinstating him.

Ding...Ding...Ding Danny Rocco and Jeff Barber both should have never put the Chancellor and University in this position..period. Both should be fired. It is an easy one...you don't get reinstated until the charges are dropped...not we have to make our policies look like a circus publicly to justify that trying to win football games superceded the laws of our society. Sad chapter of for LU athletics. The Chancellor would make a huge statement by cleaning house.

Well, you can't fire Rocco, but I think this is one that ultimately falls on Barber. He's the AD and allowed Asa to play. LU looks no different - if not worse - than Miami or any other secular school with that kind of reputation. I have a hard time blaming Rocco since nobody told him he couldn't play Asa. His job is to win football games so he let his best player play. Barber and/or administration should have stepped in, plain and simple. It would go a long way in restoring faith in the athletics department if Barber got canned because of this. It won't happen, but it probably should.

Like it was said earlier, would an RA be allowed to continue in his/her position if felony drug charges were pending? We all know the answer to that one.

[TallyW]

You guys are comparing an RA directly responsible for the lives of 50-70 students with a lineman on a football team?

I'm understanding of the explanation and fully supportive of the administration. I'm not sure if those of you with proverbial pitchforks are responsible for a multi-layered organization. Many times you simply must trust people. Unfortunately bad calls are made from time to time. You can't give responsibility without authority. You also can't undercut authority and expect them to be effective.

Some of you guys jump the shark with comparisons to Miami. This isn't a habitual problem. This is one player. If this becomes a pattern I'd be concerned. As for now, I see this as an anomaly.

Rocco is gone, lessons were learned. Each coach has to be accountable for their own organization and Coach Gill now has the opportunity to turn this conversation into a distant memory..

[flamehunter]

Sorry but I don't see the correlation between a d-lineman and an RA. Yes the d-lineman is a representative of the university as a part of a very public face. But he is not directly leading other students in a personal spiritual walk. An RA is. The RA should be allowed to stay in school provided they follow the guidelines and get "in the program", but this would, at least in the interim, disqualify them from a position of leadership. I don't see how that is hard to understand.

Disclaimer: I don't think AC should have been allowed to continue to play. I just don't like this RA analogy.

Tally, you beat me to it.

[BJWilliams]

Actually adam, we dont know the answer to that one because this program that the Chancellor described has only been in place for a little over a year and this is the first major case (that we know of) involving someone in a high profile place in the university as a student goes. Prior to this program's enacting, I could see your point. Also remember, he is a "first time offender". Previously, then yeah you could see an RA or SLD getting a pretty harsh treatment as opposed to an athlete (especially someone from one of the more well known sports around campus like football) for a first time drug or alcohol situation. Now they have this new system in place and the first time we have seen a serious situation coming out of it, the person involved happened to be a very high profile student athlete.

Do I agree with Asa being allowed to play...I dont. But to assume that because things were that way when you were there that they have not changed is not fair to those who are now trying to make changes as JLFJR put very clearly.

[R i]

Asa did not help us win.

I agree with the second chance, just not as a starter on the football team. I am not sure who Rocco consulted about how these situations are handled at other Universities (we are not OTHER universities), but it wasnt the right person.

As far as Barber and "Win at any Cost", I dont buy it. I think He and JFLJR both are well above that. Naive is not the right word, but its the best I can come up with. Things will be handled differently in similar circumstances in the future. They have Flamefans.com to answer to, and LUAlumni, and God.

TorC- Arent you glad everyone doest clean house on an uneducated command? I have heard your rights to this board called for several times.


- I am thinking about spending my life savings on a trip to VEGAS, and I figured I would consult a few people. How would others handle this situation?

[From the class of 09]

Well, you can't fire Rocco, but I think this is one that ultimately falls on Barber. He's the AD and allowed Asa to play. LU looks no different - if not worse - than Miami or any other secular school with that kind of reputation.

You're going a little overboard with this one. How in the world do you think we are equal to or worse than Miami? I agree that this wasn't a positive in the PR department but this is definitely a bigger deal to many on this board then it is to the general public. I'm sure just about every school has had something similar over the years happen. At Neb I think of Lawrence Phillips in '95 Miami on the other hand has these situations every other year or so.

I'm not saying I agree 100% with how this was handled either, but lets not make this out to be bigger than it actually is.

[R i]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... g-policies

Most of the school listed hand out NO suspension for the first failed drug test.
I know this is different than felony possesion, but its still interesting.

[adam42381]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... g-policies

Most of the school listed hand out NO suspension for the first failed drug test.
I know this is different than felony possesion, but its still interesting.

I'm okay with allowing a little leniency with a first failed drug test. Pending felony drug charges on a kid who was previously charged with a felony for malicious wounding should warrant a suspension until everything pans out. I know those charges were dropped, but the kid has a history of suspect behavior. He's received his fair share of leniency.

[flameshaw]

I just got back from New England and saw the news finally broke. Then, I read this thread and wondered if there was some other news story out there that I hadn't seen.

Here are the facts, including the ones that I did not feel comfortable releasing until today:

(1) I learned on September 16 (before the JMU game) from Asa Chapman's attorney that all charges against him would be dropped and that he would be placed on probation for one year under Virginia's first offender law.

(2) I communicated this information to our deans and the AD, who relayed it to Coach Rocco.

(3) Our deans had already reviewed Asa Chapman's record and found that he also qualified for Liberty's first offender program. As difficult as it seems to be for some of you to understand, it would have been wrong for Liberty's deans to not allow Asa Chapman to go into Liberty's Restorative Justice Program because VP Hine and Dean Anderson enacted a new policy over a year ago that provided a second chance for all first time alcohol and drug offenders to enter this program on probation. Since all other similarly situated students were given that second chance, it would have been wrong to treat Asa more harshly because he was a prominent football player. In fact, it would have possibly created a legal liability for Liberty. Under the law, private schools are expected to make their own rules but they are required to apply those rules equally among students. Failure to do so creates the potential of legal action being taken against the school by the student who is treated less favorably than all the rest. (One reason VP Hine and Dean Anderson created this second-chance Restorative Justice Program was because, for 15 or 20 years prior to its enactment, many first offenders were given a second chance but not all were. That was a problem that needed to be corrected.)

And Purple, as I said before, whether Asa had self-reported or not, the end result would have been the same in this case. He technically did meet the definition of self-reporting to the deans but, even if he had not, it would not have mattered.

(4) I learned after the JMU game that Coach Rocco had decided to reinstate Asa to the team. As I have said repeatedly in this thread, the coach had the responsibility to decide when or if to reinstate him to team play. I learned from the AD that the coach had consulted a sports consulting firm to see what was the customary practice among NCAA coaches in similar situations. The coach made his decision after much prayer, research, due diligence and counseling with Asa Chapman, I was also told. I decided not to overrule the coach for the reasons I have repeated in this thread over and over and, if I had it to do over again, I would do nothing any differently. This does not mean I agreed with the decision or disagreed with it. I didn't have firsthand knowledge of the situation like the coach did and was not in a position to make that call. To overrule the coach would have been a clear statement to the team that the administration had no faith in his judgment and would have undermined his authority and credibility with the team. As I said before, I would fire a coach before I would micro-manage his coaching decisions and reverse him.

I don't know what went through the coach's mind in his decision process. Maybe, he concluded that, since the State of Virginia has passed laws that give first offenders like Asa Chapman a second chance and, since Liberty University's Conduct Code gives first offenders like Asa Chapman a second chance and, since a good number of NCAA coaches give first offenders like Asa Chapman a second chance when there is no criminal conviction, then maybe a Christian football coach should give him a second chance and be at least as forgiving as many secular coaches.

I am not saying I agree 100% with his decision but I simply was not willing to fire him over this decision either.

And, Purple, you, TTL, TDDance and adam are definitely still on the Christmas card list but I have to admit I hope I never see any of you guys in the jury box if I am ever being tried for a crime!

Chancellor, thanks for coming here and once again explaining the situation from your perspective, with the additional information from Asa's attorney. You didn't really have to do it. I appreciate the leadership you provide to the University. Now, after we have all of the information, I am not sure I would have done anything different than you did. Running a University the size of LU is not easy and you cannot know the details of everything that goes on, that is why you hire people to help with decisions that must be made.
The last thing I want is for LU to become a 'Christian University" in name only. However, treating all students the same is imperative in the discipline process. Thanks again for all you do, especially providing all of the $$$$ and strong support for the athletic programs that we all love so much.

[Rooster Cogburn]

As I've said all along, I trusted the fact that JFLJR the AD and Coach had info we didn't have, and it turns out that they did. I think the student conduct policies were followed, the legal process was followed (even if I do not agree with the sentence or lack thereof), and they acted based on info that is always key info in these personnel or student decisions. That settles this part of the issue, which is the most important part.

[truthorconsequences]

This will have negative ramifications in recruiting and leaving JB in place will be the play. LU has lost its balance and let's felons convicted of concaine possession continue.

Some think it is a personal thing with JB...no I just think this again exposed his image over substance leadership that has hurt our programs. My wife is a great interior decorator if JLFjr gave her the $$$ he has JB she could build facilities and definitely make better hires.

Community members in my circles mock us on how no other instate program would let that happen. He tarnished the department over trying to beat SBU and should be gone.

[Kolzilla41]

This will have negative ramifications in recruiting and leaving JB in place will be the play. LU has lost its balance and let's felon convicted of concaine possession continue.

Some think it is a personal thing with JB...no I just think this again exposed his image over substance leadership that has hurt our programs. My wife is a great interior decorator if JLFjr gave her the $$$ he has JB she could build facilities and definitely make better hires.

Community members in my circles mock us on how no other instate program would let that happen. He tarnished the department over trying to beat SBU and should be gone.

Fixed it for you. And by the way TOC, are you so ignorant to the fact of the unpublished things that happened under your friend, RD? And I don't mean this to be a slap to RD but when you have kids at a school who do not necessarily line up with the views of the school, they're are going to be instances like this. It happens. It is not a problem that plagues the university.

[TallyW]

One instance does not a reputation make.

While we're talking about other schools in our state, lets talk about the hundreds of young men who grew in their faith, responsibility, character and genuine manhood under our coaches, AD and Chancellor in the last 5 years.

One guy was given more grace than some would have preferred, fine. It doesn't mean that LU has lost it's moral or theological compass. We all have an opportunity to bend toward grace or legalism... freedom or restriction... responding or reacting.

When you do lead, you decide what your bent will be and you move forward. With grace as your bent there will be times when you will get egg on your face. In those times everyone is disappointed but it doesn't change whether or not you should lean toward grace or not.

Now, with that being said, cheap grace is one where we simply use the term to allow bad behavior to run rampant. I firmly do not believe that is where we are. I do believe that rules will be applied fairly across the board. Liberty has never tried to keep people out or write off their lives based on their past. Some of you guys are acting like we put a methadone clinic on campus. A coach made a decision to let a student play. I don't believe I would have made that call but it is what it is. You chalk it up and you move on. Some people on this board have a hard time doing just that.

[LUconn]

I've been going over this and been kinda back and forth but the bottom line is

Q: Does a pending felony charge warrant dismissal from the team?
A: Coach's Decision

I guess you just really have to trust the coach.