[From the class of 09]

It's by the NYT so I'm sure jbock will love it but an interesting article none the less that made me think.

WASHINGTON — Benjamin Franklin did it. Henry Ford did it. And American life is built on the faith that others can do it, too: rise from humble origins to economic heights. “Movin’ on up,” George Jefferson-style, is not only a sitcom song but a civil religion.

But many researchers have reached a conclusion that turns conventional wisdom on its head: Americans enjoy less economic mobility than their peers in Canada and much of Western Europe. The mobility gap has been widely discussed in academic circles, but a sour season of mass unemployment and street protests has moved the discussion toward center stage.

Former Senator Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, a Republican candidate for president, warned this fall that movement “up into the middle income is actually greater, the mobility in Europe, than it is in America.” National Review, a conservative thought leader, wrote that “most Western European and English-speaking nations have higher rates of mobility.” Even Representative Paul D. Ryan, a Wisconsin Republican who argues that overall mobility remains high, recently wrote that “mobility from the very bottom up” is “where the United States lags behind.”

Liberal commentators have long emphasized class, but the attention on the right is largely new.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/us/ha ... wanted=all

[LUconn]

I would blame it less on our economic system and more on the current culture of the average american. Most of us would rather watch 50 different CSI shows than work 80 hour weeks and risk going broke.

[RubberMallet]

I would blame it less on our economic system and more on the current culture of the average american. Most of us would rather watch 50 different CSI shows than work 80 hour weeks and risk going broke.

no dude, its someone elses fault. namely banks and republican governors.

[From the class of 09]

Yeah I'd say that there is definitely a problem with our feeling of entitlement and that has to play a part. But are lower class Americans really more lazy than Europeans and Canadians? This is one of those things where there have to be multiple factors it's not going to be simply one thing which is what the different sides will try to make it out to be.

[Liberty4Life]

It's difficult because there are more penalties as your income grows until your income reaches a certain level (around $330,000, I think -- which is approximately what my company's CEO makes).

Statistically, a mother of three making minimum wage has more disposable income than a family of four earning $60,000... so hard work doesn't make sense.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/entitl ... family-mak

Furthermore, it's harder for young people (I was going to say people like us, but I'm 30) because the cost of living has gone up exponentially over the last few decades. My uncle went to four years of Duke Univ. & Duke Law School for $6500, which he was able to pay for over the course of one summer (and he still had enough money left over to buy a nice car). And you could get a good home in a nice neighborhood for a fraction of the cost of what they cost now.

Now, college costs are extraordinary -- it's not uncommon to see someone in six-figure debt -- and home prices are still high, despite a recent blip downwards. It's kind of hard for a person fresh out of college making $2,000 a month to advance in life when they have approximately $1,800 in home, car, student loan, utility, and other expenses.

[jbock13]

I will rebuke you after I'm done with the 18th hole

[jbock13]

Here's would be my argument. Do you ever notice families who have 40 year old grandmothers? And if so, why would that be? Culture of poverty. The more likely you grow up a messed up family, the more likely you are to be in a messed up family. And honestly, those things, or less of them, don't happen in foreign countries.

I agree with some of what the article says. I just reject its political premise. Americans sometimes choose not to be mobile in terms of wealth (I reject of the notion of class on the basis it is simply a Marxian term). My parents choose not to work extra hard, but they have a good life, and don't spend money they don't have, and provide a stable life for themselves. I, on the other hand, work multiple jobs and after college will be able to buy my first home. Am I rich? No. But I'm building a life for myself to achieve my happiness in life, which isn't really much. So while I may have less material wise, and I may make less on paper, in reality I have all I want.

[LUconn]

Do you ever notice families who have 40 year old grandmothers? And if so, why would that be?

Someone's son or daughter that they had at 20 had a kid at 20? Is that messed up? What on earth are you talking about?

[jbock13]

Out of wedlock basically. But yeah let's lower the age to the 30's. My fault on that.