[Purple Haize]

Ahead of its time for LU, absolutely. On this campus, was probably the only building built somewhat close to "right" the first time.

Well those are a whole lot of qualifiers.

For LU.....
On this campus...
Somewhat close to right......

Makes it a much different statement then your first one

[logic]

I suppose I was hoping you wouldn't think that I was uneducated to such a large degree in the realm of college athletic facilities that I would assume the Vines is/was on par with other structures of its kind at various institutions across the country.

Having said that, for Liberty the Vines was ahead of its time as in....20+ years later when you walk on campus it still looks "big-time" and has a big time college feel to it. 9,000 seats is still first in the Big South by what....5,000 seats? Way ahead of its time.

[logic]

And Haize, be honest, you're a sad jack anyhow so of course you would rail on the Vines just like everything else about LU. I often wonder.....when dealing strictly with athletics, is there anything about LU you enjoy?

[SumItUp]

And Haize, be honest, you're a sad jack anyhow so of course you would rail on the Vines just like everything else about LU. I often wonder.....when dealing strictly with athletics, is there anything about LU you enjoy?

I have to defend Haize here. If you are strictly talking seating capacity for the Big South, yes, the Vines Center is ahead of it's time. In 1992/93, my Facilities class used the Vines Center as an example of how NOT to build a basketball arena. It was only 2-3 years old at the time. The facility was poorly designed.

[flamesfan30]

any chance we just gut the whole place and start over? i wouldnt mind.

[BJWilliams]

And Haize, be honest, you're a sad jack anyhow so of course you would rail on the Vines just like everything else about LU. I often wonder.....when dealing strictly with athletics, is there anything about LU you enjoy?

definitely jumped the shark...

[Purple Haize]

I suppose I was hoping you wouldn't think that I was uneducated to such a large degree in the realm of college athletic facilities that I would assume the Vines is/was on par with other structures of its kind at various institutions across the country.

Having said that, for Liberty the Vines was ahead of its time as in....20+ years later when you walk on campus it still looks "big-time" and has a big time college feel to it. 9,000 seats is still first in the Big South by what....5,000 seats? Way ahead of its time.

Well I was just reading what you posted. Perhaps if you were as educated as you feel you would learn to say what you mean and not think people can read your mind. Obviously by your following post, you are unable to read my mind and come across as even more delusional then before.

[Purple Haize]

And Haize, be honest, you're a sad jack anyhow so of course you would rail on the Vines just like everything else about LU. I often wonder.....when dealing strictly with athletics, is there anything about LU you enjoy?

I have to defend Haize here. If you are strictly talking seating capacity for the Big South, yes, the Vines Center is ahead of it's time. In 1992/93, my Facilities class used the Vines Center as an example of how NOT to build a basketball arena. It was only 2-3 years old at the time. The facility was poorly designed.

Let the record show that I had nothing to do with that class at the time and my passport will clearly show I wasn't even on the continent at that time.
So I guess I'm not the only one logic considers ignorant

[bigsmooth]

haize makes great points and yes a very poor design, however that leak was fixed a long long time ago and with the new practice facility most of his concerns will be taken care of. if the handicap accessibility was out of code it would have to be fixed by the law so it does meet the requirements ... just barely The Vines is the hoops home and should not move to a proposed civic center. use it for convo only. we cant get 3k in the stands so i would think the students would not make the trek to the civic center.

[Purple Haize]

haize makes great points and yes a very poor design, however that leak was fixed a long long time ago and with the new practice facility most of his concerns will be taken care of. if the handicap accessibility was out of code it would have to be fixed by the law so it does meet the requirements ... just barely The Vines is the hoops home and should not move to a proposed civic center. use it for convo only. we cant get 3k in the stands so i would think the students would not make the trek to the civic center.

The new practice facility will be nice. All the cool schools have them now! Not sure I'd have a clear plexiglas walkway above it. Otherwise will have people like SMOOTH staring up all the time.

You are right that it is barely ADA compliant and had to do some maneuvering to make it such. I don't like the idea of an off campus civic center at all. I would prefer to gut the Vines and start over as much as possible. Seating will still be an issue but that can be fixed for the right price!

[bigsmooth]

there is no need to gut it with the new practice facility. sure the design is poor that you cant have suites, but its still a top big south facility or even the CAA or SoCon.

[Purple Haize]

It would be nice to have a better seating configuration. There are some things you could do to make it better
Also having a floating floor would make life easier on the playing surfaces. (originally it was designed to hold an ice surface). With the new practice facilities you wouldn't have to keep picking it up and putting it down for convo. It would also help with injuries, because the floor we have now.....I think the injuries speak for themselves.
I also know tha you could count on Cider and I donating for a cheese warming machine for nachos!

[logic]

"All I'm saying is...."


When you walk on campus you see the beginnings of a big-time university. When you see the Vines center packed, you see that big-time university. Without a doubt it is the best athletics facility on campus when considering "big-time" status, by far.


And Haize....my seats are great, perhaps if you upped your Flames Club donation you'd get better seats

[jmdickens]

I believe youre talking about Williams Stadium when it comes to the best athletics "big time" feel on our campus. Vines isn't close to that level because we dont ever fill the stadium like we do for football.

[Purple Haize]

+1 on The Bill. I'm sure logic will change their statement to say they meant back when it was first built. You know the exact day after it was built not a few weeks later or when it was used as how NOT to build an arena. But those few seconds right then.
And if you are under 6' and 200 lbs I'm sure some of the seats are fine! How logic could ever get their over inflated sense of ego and self absorption in them shows just how malleable those traits are.

[BJWilliams]

I believe youre talking about Williams Stadium when it comes to the best athletics "big time" feel on our campus. Vines isn't close to that level because we dont ever fill the stadium like we do for football.

+1 dickens...I think I can recall two times the Vines Center was packed for basketball in 7 years:

2004 Big South Championship Game vs High Point (on ESPN)
2009 vs. Clemson (also on ESPN)

[logic]

8,000+ seats in the Vines makes it MUCH more "big-time" than the 19,200 seat Williams Stadium. In the realm of big time college athletics 19,000 seats for football is peanuts. Be careful not to confuse new and shiny with "big-time."

Williams is the size of some on campus high school stadiums....very few if any high schools have 8,000 seat basketball arenas. The Vines is a big-time place, way ahead of it's time on this campus.

[Purple Haize]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Castle_Fieldhouse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anderson_H ... ool_Wigwam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest_hi ... ted_States
(7000 still isn't a bad number)

As for football,does it get any bigger than Texas?
http://www.texasbob.com/stadium/tbt_stadium_fcts.html

Patiently waiting yet again another walk back....
I wonder if 'some' means more or less then 'few'

[TDDance234]

8,000+ seats in the Vines makes it MUCH more "big-time" than the 19,200 seat Williams Stadium. In the realm of big time college athletics 19,000 seats for football is peanuts. Be careful not to confuse new and shiny with "big-time."

Williams is the size of some on campus high school stadiums....very few if any high schools have 8,000 seat basketball arenas. The Vines is a big-time place, way ahead of it's time on this campus.

I agree. Go back and watch the Clemson that was on ESPN. Yes, we got hammered but when the Vines is full, it's easily the best in the Big South, IMO.

[jcmanson]

I agree with logic that the Vines is closer to "big-time" than the Bill. I reserve the right to change this if/when we get the Bill to 30k.

[jbock13]

I would argue however the reason vines was built for 8500 was not for basketball, but for convo and concerts.

[logic]

So out of thousands of high school gyms, only 5 are bigger than the Vines. I am sure there are more than 5 football stadiums larger. Haize, tell me where Williams and the Vines rank on a list of
College facilities. Which is larger by comparison?

The recent addition to Williams was amazing, don't get me wrong, but the Vines is more impressive by comparison to the best facilities in the country. The recent Williams addition was what, 18 million? Understand that "big-time" is 215 million at Michigan or 321 million at Cal. Take the average male sports nut at any BCS conference and I bet they'll tell you the Vines is closer to their basketball arena than Williams is to their football stadium.

A packed Vines at 8,000 is closer to 18,000 seat "XYZ BCS school" basketball arena than 19,200 Williams is to that same school's 70k+ football stadium, not only in capacity by comparison but atmosphere as well.

8,000 for basketball > 19,200 for football.

Now if we had 70,000 seats I would agree with you. The Vines is more big-time by comparison.

[Hold My Own]

Just to prove your point try brining in a NFL exhibition for the launch of the new stadium!

[Purple Haize]

Just to prove your point try brining in a NFL exhibition for the launch of the new stadium!

Why would you want to have an NFL exhibition game at the Vines? Now AFL!

logic, you are all over the place. Are you comparing football sell outs to basketball sell outs? If you are, based on the current size of the facilities, I would agree. 8k in a closed environment makes for a loud event.
You want us to believe that you are knowledgeable about athletic facilities then make the claim that the Vines center is comparable to the best sports venues in the country. My question is, compared to whom? The Big South? Schools with similar enrollment? Schools with similar budgets? You mentioned High Schools, so I gave you a quick number for them. I would hope we have better facilities then the majority of HS in the country.
As far as a facility, it is nowhere near the best in the country and not even in the conversation. JPJ runs circles around it as does the Dean Dome. Thomas and Mac, New Pauley, United Spirit Center Thompson Boling....and that's just off the top of my head.
So find some objective measure that you want to measure the Vines center by, and 'big time' is not objective.

[Cider Jim]

So find some objective measure that you want to measure the Vines center by.

When the Vines Center opened, the numbers we heard constantly were:
1. that it seated 10,000
2. that it seated MORE than UVa's University Hall and Tech's Cassell Coliseum.