[bradyfan]

I'm convinced that, although Luck looks to have all the components of a great NFL quarterback, he's getting a little over-hyped. I mean teams are throwing away their season just to draft this kid. What happens when he shows up to training camp, and the team finds out that he's just an average 21 year old who wasn't born with mystical powers or complete knowledge of football? I mean the kid is really good, don't get me wrong. However, how can you expect just a kid to live up to the expectations of being the next John Elway or Tom Brady? Not to mention, he's just a junior and could very well chill in Stanford for another year. So, my question is to all Miami, Denver, Indy and such fans, are you really okay with sucking for this kid?

On another note, I saw the stats and some highlights of Case Keenum. I really think he's the spoiler in the draft. He threw for 9 touchdowns last night, 9! Some really good quarterbacks barely hit 20 in a season. He almost did half of that in one game. Not to mention, Houston doesn't play like Mizzou does. He only had like 34 pass attempts. That means almost a third of his attempts were touchdowns. In the highlights I saw, he really looks every bit as good as Andrew Luck. I get it that the C-USA is different than the Pac-12 but 139 touchdowns in a career is a ton. I mean this kid needed 5 touchdowns to break the record last night. He did that and then threw for four more. As much as I love Andrew Luck, I have to say that I would prefer to draft the kid that isn't getting all the hype but looking just as good if not maybe better.

[NotAJerry]

Case Keenum passed Colt Brennan and Graham Harrell last night. They're all gimmick offense nobodies that didn't/don't have NFL talent. He's never taken a snap in a legitimate offense. He's had multiple serious injuries and is playing in his 6th college season. Brennan got cut by a UFL team and Harrell is on the Packers practice squad. Keenum will most likely not even be a legit NFL backup. Every time one of these jokers, in a complete farce of a system, puts up ridiculous numbers you see fans clamor for them. Every time they are complete and utter failures.

As far as Luck goes, he's got the Aaron Rodgers skillset and has been coached by one of the top coaches in the sport in Jim Harbaugh. He'll be just fine.

Sucking for Luck is fine because there's also Landry Jones in this draft that is worthy of a top 2 pick. Then there's a legit 1st round guy like Griffen III at Baylor. Matt Barkley will likely go in the 1st round though I think he's the one who will bust in this class. The early round sleeper QBs are guys like Nick Foles at Arizona, Kirk Cousins at Michigan St., Ryan Tannehill at aTm, and Kellen Moore from Boise St.

EDIT: One more thing on Luck, he's calling the plays on offense this year. That should say a ton about his ability/understanding.

[jcmanson]

Luck is a SR, not a Jr

[bradyfan]

Okay, I'll agree with you about the previous guys, Brennan and Harrell. However, my point was that Houston doesn't just pass the ball. Mizzou threw close to 50 passes a game with Gabbert and same thing with Hawaii and Texas Tech. However, Keenum is shattering records in an offense throwing the ball 15 times less than that. It has to go for something. I agree that there look to be several good qb's in this upcoming draft. However, what if Luck stays for another season? I mean the chance is always there, especially if he doesn't win a championship or heisman this year.

[adam42381]

Case Keenum passed Colt Brennan and Graham Harrell last night. They're all gimmick offense nobodies that didn't/don't have NFL talent. He's never taken a snap in a legitimate offense. He's had multiple serious injuries and is playing in his 6th college season. Brennan got cut by a UFL team and Harrell is on the Packers practice squad. Keenum will most likely not even be a legit NFL backup. Every time one of these jokers, in a complete farce of a system, puts up ridiculous numbers you see fans clamor for them. Every time they are complete and utter failures.

Add Timmy Chang and Kliff Kingsbury to the list. Yes, they dominated in their systems. Put an Aaron Rodgers or Andrew Luck in the same system and see what kind of stats they'd put up.

[adam42381]

Luck is a SR, not a Jr

He's a redshirt junior. Academically he's a senior.

(If you've noticed me editing this post over the past couple minutes, it's due to research)

[bradyfan]

Luck is a SR, not a Jr

His ESPN profile last night listed him as a Redshirt Junior. If he's a senior, my bad.



http://espn.go.com/college-football/heisman/

Look at Luck's class. It says junior.

[bradyfan]

Case Keenum passed Colt Brennan and Graham Harrell last night. They're all gimmick offense nobodies that didn't/don't have NFL talent. He's never taken a snap in a legitimate offense. He's had multiple serious injuries and is playing in his 6th college season. Brennan got cut by a UFL team and Harrell is on the Packers practice squad. Keenum will most likely not even be a legit NFL backup. Every time one of these jokers, in a complete farce of a system, puts up ridiculous numbers you see fans clamor for them. Every time they are complete and utter failures.

Add Timmy Chang and Kliff Kingsbury to the list. Yes, they dominated in their systems. Put an Aaron Rodgers or Andrew Luck in the same system and see what kind of stats they'd put up.

It's not so much about dominating their systems as it is about numbers. Look at what Case Keenum is doing. Not just dominating his system, not just breaking records in a system that is pass heavy. He is shattering records in a system that is a balanced offense that passes around 55% of the time. He has a really good completion rating and he's doing it with absolutely no one around him.

[jcmanson]

Luck is a SR, not a Jr

He's a redshirt junior. Academically he's a senior.

(If you've noticed me editing this post over the past couple minutes, it's due to research)

Oh ok, thanks for the correction. I knew he was eligible for the draft last year and didn’t go, but didn’t realize he had redshirted.

[BJWilliams]

He redshirted in 2008 then won the QB job the next year.

[flamehunter]

This is one of the best thread titles I've seen in a while.

Oh and I think he's the real deal. Not the best athletic QB of all time, but I think he seems to have the intangibles and is a winner.

[blwall1416]

This is one of the best thread titles I've seen in a while.

Yeah, I can't believe Medic hasn't chimed in yet.

[NotAJerry]

Luck is a SR, not a Jr

Luck redshirted in 2008. He's a senior in college but only a r-Jr. in eligibility.

[NotAJerry]

Case Keenum passed Colt Brennan and Graham Harrell last night. They're all gimmick offense nobodies that didn't/don't have NFL talent. He's never taken a snap in a legitimate offense. He's had multiple serious injuries and is playing in his 6th college season. Brennan got cut by a UFL team and Harrell is on the Packers practice squad. Keenum will most likely not even be a legit NFL backup. Every time one of these jokers, in a complete farce of a system, puts up ridiculous numbers you see fans clamor for them. Every time they are complete and utter failures.

Add Timmy Chang and Kliff Kingsbury to the list. Yes, they dominated in their systems. Put an Aaron Rodgers or Andrew Luck in the same system and see what kind of stats they'd put up.

It's not so much about dominating their systems as it is about numbers. Look at what Case Keenum is doing. Not just dominating his system, not just breaking records in a system that is pass heavy. He is shattering records in a system that is a balanced offense that passes around 55% of the time. He has a really good completion rating and he's doing it with absolutely no one around him.

He has 6 years in the system, with 1 redshirt. They've literally not played a single quality opponent so far. UTEP, 4-3 (1-2 CUSA) is their only opponent so far with a winning record. His last full year, 2009, he averaged 50 passes per game. He's throwing 38 times a game despite not playing most 4th quarters (his backups have 57 pass attempts this year). A 6'1" QB with an average arm, two bad leg injuries already, and no mobility playing in a joke of an offense is going to do nothing.

He's David Klingler, Nick Rolovich, and a host of other smart guys who played in ridiculous systems against garbage opponents and racked up huge numbers. Those guys never pan out.

[NotAJerry]

This is one of the best thread titles I've seen in a while.

Oh and I think he's the real deal. Not the best athletic QB of all time, but I think he seems to have the intangibles and is a winner.

Hold on, what? Not the best athletic QB? He's got 354 and 453 yards rushing, with 5 TDs rushing his 1st two years and has 83 yards and 1 TD rushing this year. Add in the spectacular one handed catch he had, and one of his best attributes is that he is very athletic for a QB...which is why I compare him to an Aaron Rodgers type QB.

[RubberMallet]

andrew luck is pretty much the protypical pro qb. he's probably the next peyton manning. the guy everyone knew was going to be a star. hes the size of big ben with more talent in college than big ben had.

the cornerstone of any team is going to be your qb in todays nfl. teams that have marginal qb talent have every reason in the world to try and get this guy.

case keenum is doing what he's doing against some of the worst defenses in the FBS. its kind of impressive but kind of not either.

[LUconn]

I have not heard 1 person that is not buying Luck as anything but a can't miss. Normally you'll get a few nay sayers. I don't think anybody's tanking to get him. A coach is going to try his hardest to win or else he's fired. And in a case (like miami) where he knows he's fired anyway, he's still not going to give up.

But he's obviously going to be a good starting QB in the NFL. Who knows if he'll be Peyton Manning. But he's got a huge arm, he's accurate, he's smart, he's big. All he needs is a decent offensive line and he's your franchise QB.

[BJWilliams]

Do you think if the Colts get the #1 pick they will take him? They do have Peyton Manning and as an established player that he is youd think he would have at least a little say even though the final decision is with the front office

[thepostman]

the dolphins suck worse so the Colts won't have to worry about it....or so that is what I am hoping, haha

[adam42381]

Do you think if the Colts get the #1 pick they will take him? They do have Peyton Manning and as an established player that he is youd think he would have at least a little say even though the final decision is with the front office

Absolutely. There is no guarantee that Peyton ever returns to his normal level of play even after he recovers from his neck injury.

[SuperJon]

Do you think if the Colts get the #1 pick they will take him? They do have Peyton Manning and as an established player that he is youd think he would have at least a little say even though the final decision is with the front office

Absolutely. There is no guarantee that Peyton ever returns to his normal level of play even after he recovers from his neck injury.

And even if he does come back, you put him in the situation that Aaron Rodgers was in. Peyton's only got 2-3 years left. If you can put the future Peyton Manning learning behind the current Peyton Manning then you do it.

[NotAJerry]

Do you think if the Colts get the #1 pick they will take him? They do have Peyton Manning and as an established player that he is youd think he would have at least a little say even though the final decision is with the front office

When you start getting into fusion surgery around the neck, you are no longer a player to be relied upon. The Colts absolutely must draft a QB this year. Both Luck and Jones are worth it.

[bradyfan]

Hold on and back up a second. First off, let me set one thing straight, I do think Andrew Luck will be a good qb. My question is simply, is he worth throwing a whole season away? The reason I ask this is not because of just the "throwing a season away" factor. It's more about the hype that is involved with that. Think about it, Luck knows what teams are sacrificing to try and get him. Winless and dropping a 13 point lead in the last few minutes to Tebow? C'mon, Luck knows what's going on. The question is, will that hype be too much for the kid? Or to put it in better words, because of the hype, will he live up to it? I mean you're putting a ton of pressure on kid by throwing your season away just for him. You're basically saying that you're expecting him to come in and turn your franchise completely around. Alex Smith and Matt Leihnart were given similar expectations. Maybe they were on a smaller scale and no, neither of those qb's are near to what Luck is. However, my question is more about will the hype limit Luck's future? I brought up Case Keenum because whether he's been in that system forever or not, he's putting up not just good numbers but ridiculous numbers. You can't compare him Colt Brennan or those other guys, because those other guys didn't do anything close to what he's doing. I'm in no way advocating that I don't think Luck will be good or that Keenum is better than Luck. However, my point is that I think the Redskins or Chiefs could be in a better position by getting Keenum than the Dolphins are in to get Luck.

Keenum = Insane college numbers, A- arm strength, A- accuracy, no hype, little mobility

Luck = Enough talent to be the next Elway or Young, A+ arm strength, A+ accuracy, familiar with pro-system, a ton of hype and expectations.

Just comparing them makes me think that Keenum could end up being a better choice. For the record, I would still draft Luck. I'm only bringing this up because Keenum looks like he could be a solid qb and Luck could suffer from the hype.

[ToTheLeft]

I've been burned too many times before with system QB's...

I was sold that Colt Brennan was going to be a star. I was convinced Kliff Kingsbury was going to be great. I'm done putting faith in those kids. The QB position is such a fickle one, and these system QB's won't be able to recreate the system they used and knew like the back of their hand in the NFL.

Instead of bubble screens and short passing, they're going to need to be able to throw a post and a deep out/in and a variety of other deep throws. Otherwise, you run into the situation the Rams have this season... there's no offense because there's no big play passing game. You need a QB who can make all the throws, or provide some kind of dynamic boost to an offense.

I'd love to see Keenum succeed. And if it were up to me, he'd be a front runner for Heisman alongside RG3. But we all know the facts of the situation...

Luck will be top 2 for Heisman, and Luck will be the number 1 overall pick.

However, cjs, I must take issue with one thing you said...

You can't compare him Colt Brennan or those other guys, because those other guys didn't do anything close to what he's doing.

Colt Brennan, in THREE seasons, put up 131 touchdowns. Had he been able to play 4 (plus the extra partial season Case has that he got the Med RS for), as Case has, you could say he had a reasonable shot at 165+. Case is probably on pace to get close to that, but Colt is right on par if not slightly better. (Both have some rushing TD production in their careers, and the numbers are comparable there, with a slight edge going to Case for rushing in 9 TD's his first year as a starter)

Colt Brennan, again, in 3 seasons, put up 14193 yards. Keenum currently is sitting in the 16,000 range. In 4+ seasons.

Colt's completion percentages were on the same exact level as Case's. High 60's to low 70's.

Interception numbers were very similar. Low to mid teens per season.

Case throws MORE PASSES than Colt did. In 3 seasons, Colt threw in the low to mid 500's every season in terms of attempts. In 2009, Case threw 700 passes. Seven hundred. and in '08 he was close to 600.

So I'd be curious to see what makes Case so much better. If it's having an extra season plus some extra on Colt, then that's fine. But other than that, the numbers are pretty much identical, if not slightly in Colt's favor depending on how Case finishes out this season.

[adam42381]

I've been burned too many times before with system QB's...

I was sold that Colt Brennan was going to be a star. I was convinced Kliff Kingsbury was going to be great. I'm done putting faith in those kids. The QB position is such a fickle one, and these system QB's won't be able to recreate the system they used and knew like the back of their hand in the NFL.

Instead of bubble screens and short passing, they're going to need to be able to throw a post and a deep out/in and a variety of other deep throws. Otherwise, you run into the situation the Rams have this season... there's no offense because there's no big play passing game. You need a QB who can make all the throws, or provide some kind of dynamic boost to an offense.

I'd love to see Keenum succeed. And if it were up to me, he'd be a front runner for Heisman alongside RG3. But we all know the facts of the situation...

Luck will be top 2 for Heisman, and Luck will be the number 1 overall pick.

However, cjs, I must take issue with one thing you said...

You can't compare him Colt Brennan or those other guys, because those other guys didn't do anything close to what he's doing.

Colt Brennan, in THREE seasons, put up 131 touchdowns. Had he been able to play 4 (plus the extra partial season Case has that he got the Med RS for), as Case has, you could say he had a reasonable shot at 165+. Case is probably on pace to get close to that, but Colt is right on par if not slightly better. (Both have some rushing TD production in their careers, and the numbers are comparable there, with a slight edge going to Case for rushing in 9 TD's his first year as a starter)

Colt Brennan, again, in 3 seasons, put up 14193 yards. Keenum currently is sitting in the 16,000 range. In 4+ seasons.

Colt's completion percentages were on the same exact level as Case's. High 60's to low 70's.

Interception numbers were very similar. Low to mid teens per season.

Case throws MORE PASSES than Colt did. In 3 seasons, Colt threw in the low to mid 500's every season in terms of attempts. In 2009, Case threw 700 passes. Seven hundred. and in '08 he was close to 600.

So I'd be curious to see what makes Case so much better. If it's having an extra season plus some extra on Colt, then that's fine. But other than that, the numbers are pretty much identical, if not slightly in Colt's favor depending on how Case finishes out this season.

What he said.