[Hold My Own]

I'm not sure we should be thinking about how much better would have been or how much having Asa would have helped. The man has a felony charge against him and is suspended....let's focus on the guys we have in uniform doing the things they're supposed to be doing on & off the field and working on getting them better. Then again, our focus really doesnt help the team much

I guess I have Alum82's doorknob mentality when it comes to these types of things (doorknob when it comes to the team, not school...we should do everything we can to help him off the field)

[FlamingChick]

the biggest thing that stood out to me was the penalties, arm tackling and the vanilla play calling. the penalties killed a couple of drives and were just really stupid and reaked of undisciplined football. The play calling in the first half was suspect as well. We have showed our running game is not good at all. mike brown has nearly out rushed the running backs. Im not sure how much of this is due the the O-Line but our backs just do not seem powerful to me and just do not seem to be able to get around the corner. The O-line still shows signs of good play, but will then make a bonehead penalty. If my stats are correct Brown has been sacked seven times this year and those came against state and JMU. So against a good team we are struggling. We have cut the turnovers as well. We cannot seem to get the whole team on the same page in playing a full game. We really need to bounce back against Lehigh so try and gain an ounce of credibility. This game was ripe for the taking and we laid an egg. Props again to the students for making it electric and the baptist side for bringing in the second half as it did effect thorpe. All is not lost everyone, we take care of the conference business and we will be in the playoffs, and i just do not see anyone in the little south who is better. Yeah we took another hit on the credibility meter, but we will rebound....i also forgot to say JMU was more physical and just beat us up. props to the dukes.

Totally agree with every aspect of your post especially, the play calling. We are so unbelievably predictable with play calling--open up the play book and put together a good game plan! And what about right after halftime when we handed off the ball to Aldreakis a couple of times-- He moved the ball well, but then we seemed to abandon the run, yet again. Tyler came in for one play. What was the point of that? Bring in the backup to run the ball, when you have a dual threat QB (who by the way is the team's leading rusher) and running backs who you hardly ever give the ball to--Really? I just don't get it. I know Streeter is still early in his career as an OC, but it's things like this that really make me wonder what if Wachenheim was still calling the plays? Either way, can't change that, but one can only hope that the coaches really start to have some confidence in the run game outside of Mike. If they want to win the Big South outright and make it to the playoffs, there will need to be some adjustments made so that the team isn't so one dimensional.

[LUconn]

If Brennan had ran it in, we would have all been saying "brilliant! They expect Brown to run the ball so when Brennan is there they don't see the run coming!"

It was a good idea, just poorly executed like the rest of our non-Brown running plays. I don't think our offensive line can run block.

[Hold My Own]

I'm thankful they didnt throw to MB because he got hammered the two plays before that. That's the only reason I didnt think they were going to him right there.

[truedrewdawg87]

I agree with those who said earlier that FCS teams like Montana or Appalachian State would have blown Liberty out last night. That may have been true even without the penalties. Even though I'm a Liberty graduate and want to see the program succeed as much as anyone, I just personally believe those programs are an elite FCS class right now that Liberty simply isn't in and the Flames still have a ways to go before getting to that level. It starts with being able to CONSISTENTLY beat teams like JMU so you don't have to look for "positives" and "moral victories" to latch on to in a desperate search for optimism. It's losses like this that always make me laugh when people want to bring up Liberty moving to the FBS level. Liberty can't win its big FCS games, it has NEVER been to the playoffs and from time to time it loses games that aren't even considered "BIG" games, yet some of us seem to think this program is "close" to being ready for the FBS level. Becoming "elite" on the level the program is currently on might be a better goal. Just my opinion.

[Kolzilla41]

the same level...I dont know. It really depends on how Gabe does Id think. If he is anything like MB minus the turnover issues, I think we could be even better. Its going to once again come down to the "hogmollies" up front. I wont give too deep an analysis on this til later in the year but I think that if Gabe Henderson is as good as advertised we could really light things up next year (and that is saying something)

What makes you think that Gabe even starts next year? We've got this kid who is a junior named Tyler Brennan. You may have heard of him.

The guy they always run a quarterback draw with? I want to know why is by the way.

[LUconn]

I agree with those who said earlier that FCS teams like Montana or Appalachian State would have blown Liberty out last night. That may have been true even without the penalties. Even though I'm a Liberty graduate and want to see the program succeed as much as anyone, I just personally believe those programs are an elite FCS class right now that Liberty simply isn't in and the Flames still have a ways to go before getting to that level. It starts with being able to CONSISTENTLY beat teams like JMU so you don't have to look for "positives" and "moral victories" to latch on to in a desperate search for optimism. It's losses like this that always make me laugh when people want to bring up Liberty moving to the FBS level. Liberty can't win its big FCS games, it has NEVER been to the playoffs and from time to time it loses games that aren't even considered "BIG" games, yet some of us seem to think this program is "close" to being ready for the FBS level. Becoming "elite" on the level the program is currently on might be a better goal. Just my opinion.

you're right about where we are but that has no bearing on being at the FBS level.

[truedrewdawg87]

I would say it does. If Liberty is still a ways off from even being close to being "elite" at the FCS level what would posses people to think Liberty could consistently compete at the next level? One win over Ball State doesn't mean a program can compete on that level week in and week out. I would rather have a shot at the playoffs every season and know you at least on paper have a chance to play for a national championship rather than know your ceiling every season is the Liberty Bowl or some crap like that.

[Hold My Own]

LUconn's point is even a power house like Appy St and others would get it handed to them at their current talent level week in and week out. FCS to FBS has 90% to do with $ a program has and 10% with current talent level. Talent will come once you build the facilities and pump funds into the budget and you're a FBS program.

[Sly Fox]

Then why not drop down to DII? We could dominate there.

Those who bag on lower tier bowls have generally never been to lower tier bowls. I would absolutely LOVE to have an excuse to go a city and hang with fellow alumni & FlameFans with enough notice to be able to pull it off financially. The playoffs don't lend themselves to that type of opportunity for fans. I've covered & attended scores of bowls and even the ones that most of America ignores are terrific experiences for fans of the schools involved.

PS - The Liberty Bowl is an awesome event. You get to hang in Memphis on Beale Street while downing terrific barbecue and possibly end your season with a win heading into the offseason. Count me in!

[ToTheLeft]

Then why not drop down to DII? We could dominate there.

Those who bag on lower tier bowls have generally never been to lower tier bowls. I would absolutely LOVE to have an excuse to go a city and hang with fellow alumni & FlameFans with enough notice to be able to pull it off financially. The playoffs don't lend themselves to that type of opportunity for fans. I've covered & attended scores of bowls and even the ones that most of America ignores are terrific experiences for fans of the schools involved.

PS - The Liberty Bowl is an awesome event. You get to hang in Memphis on Beale Street while downing terrific barbecue and possibly end your season with a win heading into the offseason. Count me in!

I completely agree. I'd love to go FBS just so we could go to a bowl. End a season with a POSTSEASON win over a fellow bowl-eligible team? Awesome. Almost a good as a playoff, but a lot more money and exposure involved.

[truedrewdawg87]

I'm sure the Liberty Bowl is a terrific experience ONCE. I was always under the impression that competition is about winning the ultimate prize that your league has to offer. I would rather win national championships than settle for some sub-tier bowl game played on a tuesday night.

[bigsmooth]

Then why not drop down to DII? We could dominate there.

Those who bag on lower tier bowls have generally never been to lower tier bowls. I would absolutely LOVE to have an excuse to go a city and hang with fellow alumni & FlameFans with enough notice to be able to pull it off financially. The playoffs don't lend themselves to that type of opportunity for fans. I've covered & attended scores of bowls and even the ones that most of America ignores are terrific experiences for fans of the schools involved.

PS - The Liberty Bowl is an awesome event. You get to hang in Memphis on Beale Street while downing terrific barbecue and possibly end your season with a win heading into the offseason. Count me in!

+1

[Purple Haize]

HMO. That is sort of the chicken and egg argument. Boise St spends less money on their program then anyone in the Top 25. TCU is there with them. You have to have talent to win. You have to have wins to generate revenue. You have to have revenue to build better facilities etc. You have to have better facilities to land talented players. And it goes on and on and on. Street lights people....oops wrong thread!
SLY I have been to several lower level bowls. While I enjoyed the USC Band in Vegas these bowls are more a revenue drain then boom. Of course, then it goes back to the above paragraph. Also, for the most part, our fans wouldn't have the same type of fun in Memphisand New Orleans if you know what I mean!
Final thought: would the stadium have been as packed and electric if we were playing Bowling Green instead of JMU?

[ProudPapa73]

For whatever reason, last night did not look like Rocco ball. The mental errors and physical fatigue caught me completely off guard. Something tells me there will be a little less time in team meetings this week and a little more time on the line...
I have to think that the Lehigh game will teach us about what kind of team we have and what to expect here on out.

[truedrewdawg87]

Couldn't agree more Puprle. Plus, a home playoff game, which at this point is waaaaay more realistic than Liberty being in a lower-tier bowl game, is 10 times more likely to get our fan base excited than some game being played in some other part of the country that has no bearing on Liberty's chances to play the next week or more importantly, to win a national championship. I would MUCH rather see a national championship banner hanging in my alma mater's stadium than a Liberty Bowl banner. As the son of an Appalachian graduate, I would rather see Liberty's program progress to the point of being UNQUESTIONABLY ELITE at the FCS level than mediocre at the FBS level.

[Kolzilla41]

For whatever reason, last night did not look like Rocco ball. The mental errors and physical fatigue caught me completely off guard. Something tells me there will be a little less time in team meetings this week and a little more time on the line...
I have to think that the Lehigh game will teach us about what kind of team we have and what to expect here on out.

I agree with you. I think we will truly know what type of team we have when they face the reigning FCS player of the week in Chris Lum. I think this is an even bigger test for the Flames.

[Hold My Own]

HMO. That is sort of the chicken and egg argument. Boise St spends less money on their program then anyone in the Top 25. TCU is there with them. You have to have talent to win. You have to have wins to generate revenue. You have to have revenue to build better facilities etc.

Boise St is the perfect example Purple thank you!

They won their conference 1 time in a 14 year period! ('81-'95) Not even a shared championship....the nerve!!! Once they moved up to FBS ('96) they won the conference championship 10 times in the next 14 years!!! ('96 - 2010)

So are we trying to say the talent level they were facing at the FCS level was that much better than the FBS talent?

What happened is simple and it's the same thing we're doing....they built a tower (much like ours) put more money into the program and went then went to FBS just a couple of years later...facilities were in place and recruiting just got easier being FBS....this is by no means the rule but its a far more common story of going to FBS than being a powerhouse and then moving up.

[jbock13]

But look at the conference Boise State went into. They were playing mostly against teams in their conference that just made the jump to FBS as well. So the statistics are a bit misleading. Sure, they beat those teams in growing their program. But they weren't exactly going on the road and beating powerhouses until recently.

[Purple Haize]

But this is what I mean by Chicken/egg argument. A couple of factors. Was the talent on their roster better when they moved up? Was the talent they were playing better or worse?
I do agree that they are the exception to the rule. I was using them to say that $$$ doesn't always = success.

[Hold My Own]

But look at the conference Boise State went into. They were playing mostly against teams in their conference that just made the jump to FBS as well. So the statistics are a bit misleading. Sure, they beat those teams in growing their program. But they weren't exactly going on the road and beating powerhouses until recently.

Point still remains about the lack of success at the FCS level and then moving up...I think everyone on this board would be happy with the same amount of success we're having right now in a lower tier FBS conference full of teams making the transition as well.

All of this to say for those saying "we're not an elite team in FCS so we shouldnt even think about FBS" is just nonsense....one does not effect the other. It's all about your situation when making the move up....funding, conference, facilities, coaching....then talent.

[Purple Haize]

Point still remains about the lack of success at the FCS level and then moving up...I think everyone on this board would be happy with the same amount of success we're having right now in a lower tier FBS conference full of teams making the transition as well.

All of this to say for those saying "we're not an elite team in FCS so we shouldnt even think about FBS" is just nonsense....one does not effect the other. It's all about your situation when making the move up....funding, conference, facilities, coaching....then talent.

Winner winner chicken dinner. I would only add "regional teams" to that statement.

[logic]

Small time thinking. The goal here is to win a BCS national championship. I will live long enough to see it. The sooner we move up the better. Liberty has national appeal. Christianity knows no "regional boundaries." Bowling Green? Have you forgotten the goal to win in South Bend? Beat the gators in the swamp? When we're playing Saturday night games on ESPN with millions watching at home the announcers will talk about our Christian mission and at that point football has done it's job. Bowling Green is a but a small stepping stone along the way. I am sure people wanted to remain Division II as well. That possibility is laughable looking back. This school was meant for so much more.

We're going to move up as soon as we can. Jump on board while you can, the train is ready to leave the station!!

[Hold My Own]

This is way to long to be my signature but I'd make it mine if I could. Great post.

[Purple Haize]

Really? We are going to rehash this? LOL
It's long on hyperbole and short on specifics.
But it does tie in the music thread. logic must be talking about the "Crazy Train". RIP Randy Rhodes