[jmdickens]

Have you guys ever been to churches where there is a box by the exit? I was brought up with the plate passing, but I have read that some people have actual church fights over this issue....Can I get some insight from the wiser posters?

I have never read much about this difference, so I wouldn't even know where to start

[SuperJon]

The church I work at doesn't pass the bucket. I've been here 14-months and it's still weird for me. A lot of times I forget to put my tithes check in the box and have to turn it in during the week (we're just now getting online giving...). We have boxes by every door in both of our worship centers and a couple in our lobby area. There are a couple of ways to look at it:

1) This is the most common: unchurched people think churches only care about their money. By putting boxes around the church and not taking up tithes/offering by passing the plate, it creates and atmosphere that says there are more important things going on than your money.

2) Some churches would rather spend that five minutes doing something else whether it be another song, prayer, ministry time, etc. My church, for example, has 5-10 minutes of ministry time at the end of every service. We have purposefully crafted our service in a way that anyone can get prayed for for any reason at the end of our service and that we can worship together at the end of the service.

3) By putting the boxes in the back, giving is less invasive than by passing the bucket. How many times at Liberty did you see people act like they were putting something in a bucket because they wanted people to think they were giving? There's an entire culture of "if I don't give, people will judge me" inside the church. In some ways it's right. By having the boxes around the church, no one knows whether you give or not. It's more of a personal thing.

There are other reasons but those are the big three.

[Cider Jim]

I thought this was going to be about joining the Flames Club with church money.

[Sly Fox]

I thought this was going to be about joining the Flames Club with church money.

I thought the same thing, CJ.

[jmdickens]

thanks SJ....that makes sense to me. Most things dont. lol

[SuperJon]

thanks SJ....that makes sense to me. Most things dont. lol

I work with high school kids. If I can't make things make sense I suck at my job.

[Purple Haize]

I always joked that I left the ministry because I suggested putting an ATM in the lobby and the $3 service fee should go to the Building fund!

Actually it is a good idea. Our church actually let's us set up giving online. I like that idea, least of which is the fee churches pay on bounced checks!

[Sly Fox]

Our church has had quite a few discussions about whether accepting VISA is OK for a church. Dave Ramsey has a long history with our church back before he hit it big. We just began accepting EFTs. Most churches who have stopped passing the plate/bucket are well connected with ways to receive income.

[TDDance234]

Tithing is just as much a part of worship as music, preaching, etc...I don't see the need to put boxes in the back solely to avoid offending new attendees. I understand the want to have additional time for other things but are we teaching a new generation that those "other" things are more important than tithing?

[SuperJon]

Tithing is just as much a part of worship as music, preaching, etc...I don't see the need to put boxes in the back solely to avoid offending new attendees. I understand the want to have additional time for other things but are we teaching a new generation that those "other" things are more important than tithing?

That's the big debate. Having seen both sides of it, I think I prefer passing the plate but that fits my model of church better. In the model that I'm in currently, I don't think passing the plate would be a good fit.

[thepostman]

Either way is fine but at some point the principle of tithing needs to be taught. How you go about collecting it is up to the church and how they believe God is leading them. If its not ever taught then that is where I believe the problem starts

[From the class of 09]

Either way is fine but at some point the principle of tithing needs to be taught. How you go about collecting it is up to the church and how they believe God is leading them. If its not ever taught then that is where I believe the problem starts

Agreed 100% I could care less how a church collects tithes but if the church isn't talking about tithing and money in general they are missing a huge piece of Biblical teachings. Let's be honest nobody really likes to talk about money because it's uncomfortable but ignoring it is a horrible idea. How many marriages end because of problems either caused directly or magnified by money?

[jcmanson]

I grew up in a church where we passed the plate. Until I was about 15, that's where we went. Then we moved to South Fla and they did not. They had the boxes near the back of the sanctuary. At first I thought it was strange. I'm now back in VA at a church that passes the plate. Personally, it's not that big of a deal to me, but I like it better being boxes at the back rather than passing the plate for the reasons SJ stated.

[phoenix]

Is this where we start the fight over tithing vs. stewardship? Whether the concept of tithing is meant for the New Testament church? Or any of that stuff?

[rueful]

Sure.

When I was in college I didn't tithe to my church because they didn't need it. Plus I was part-time there and talked to my pastor about what I wanted to do and he agreed. Instead of tithing to the church I bought food/groceries for my friends with that money who didn't have jobs.

Now my tithe goes half to my church and half to a missionary.

Is this biblical stewardship? Am I in the wrong here?

[phoenix]

I don't preach about tithing.

I preach about stewardship, and about giving of yourself first (as they did in Acts), and only then giving money. I don't tell people they have to give ten percent (the tithe), because I don't see that in the New Testament at all; I see people being good stewards of what God gave them, and giving sacrificially to meet others' needs. I think of a tithe as a minimum, but I really don't know anyone who couldn't give more than that.

Our giving should go to support ministry, whether you are giving money or not. The goal of Biblical stewardship is to point people to the Kingdom, and bring the increase to God.

And to keep from turning this into a threadjack, I think that giving is certainly a part of worship, but I also think that it should be a less public part of worship. I like the idea of the boxes at the back of the church.

[From the class of 09]

I don't preach about tithing.

I preach about stewardship, and about giving of yourself first (as they did in Acts), and only then giving money. I don't tell people they have to give ten percent (the tithe), because I don't see that in the New Testament at all; I see people being good stewards of what God gave them, and giving sacrificially to meet others' needs. I think of a tithe as a minimum, but I really don't know anyone who couldn't give more than that.

Our giving should go to support ministry, whether you are giving money or not. The goal of Biblical stewardship is to point people to the Kingdom, and bring the increase to God.

And to keep from turning this into a threadjack, I think that giving is certainly a part of worship, but I also think that it should be a less public part of worship. I like the idea of the boxes at the back of the church.

If you don't believe the principal of first fruits/tithe in the OT applies to the NT church then I guess you can't be faulted for not talking about it. I'd probably disagree but I'm no where near a Biblical scholar so I can't say that absolutely. However in my experiance the reason most churches don't want to talk about the tithe is that it's uncomfortable not that they see it as being an OT tradition that no longer applies to the NT church.

[phoenix]

If you don't believe the principal of first fruits/tithe in the OT applies to the NT church then I guess you can't be faulted for not talking about it. I'd probably disagree but I'm no where near a Biblical scholar so I can't say that absolutely. However in my experiance the reason most churches don't want to talk about the tithe is that it's uncomfortable not that they see it as being an OT tradition that no longer applies to the NT church.

My issue is that there are people who could (and probably should) give beyond a tenth of what God has blessed them with, but they refuse. "I gave my tithe, so I'm not going to give any more." That violates the spirit of New Testament giving (the whole cheerful giver thing, as well as the idea of sacrificial giving). I don't see the churches in the NT just giving a tenth -- they sometimes gave everything they had. We've been blessed with so much that I honestly feel that only giving a tenth is weak.

If I stopped preaching about things that are uncomfortable, I'd have to stop preaching I usually tell people that a tenth is a good place to start, but not a good place to end and leave it at that.

[4everfsu]

I believe in offerings for the NT church not tithing. Malachi where you were instructed to bring in the first fruits, etc was for 11 tribes of Judah in order for the tribe of Levi to be sustained as their own works was to take care of the Temple of God. The tribe of Levi was not to toil in the field.
It never involved exchange of money.

I was raised in an independent fundamental baptist church that was extreme. If you did not tithe you were considered a God robber according to Mal 3:10 -12. I believe those are the verses.

My 2 cents worth.

http://www.midnightministries.com/tithing.htm

[Purple Haize]

Tithing. I have you all beat. The church I grew up in had 2 offerings EVERY service. The first was to pay the salary of the preahers. The second was for the bills of the church. If the bills hadn't been paid they were 'auctioned' off. I kid not.
Now, I just give money to myself because I know it will be put to good use!

[From the class of 09]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on- ... _blog.html

Ok this lady is a bit nutty but she is hitting on a problem. But a couple thoughts from me...

It is apparent that it is the church's (people) job to care for the poor. But what I'm unclear on is what should happen if the church fails at its job?

My church recently showed that 30% of people regularly attending give $500 or more annually. The other 70% give less or nothing (financially) When I saw this number it was apparent why the church isn't taking care of the poor/elderly because they don't have the resources.

So with that bit of knowledge (and yes I'm generalizing all churches as having that same poor 30%) is it better for the government to try and provide for the poor/elderly when the church is failing?

I would initially say yes, but I'm open to comments/ideas?!?


(I probably could have fit in a few more () and Q&A's between myself but .....good story)

[jbock13]

Perhaps its off the subject, but I still think some of the OT applies. Not about killing witches, but I mean tithing is a biblical subject... just because the OT says it doesn't make it any less true. I'm a little worried about churches who now just seem to want to throw the OT out the the window. I don't think it applies culturally, but as far as spiritual principals, I think it still applies.

Please feel free to disagree with me, as i'd honestly love to hear what some of you think about that. This was brought up during my question on tattoos (which I don't intend on starting here). The Bible in the OT says they are banned. But now most say its acceptable. Have we just ignored the OT? Is it no longer relevant? Should it even be part of the Bible anymore?

Id love to hear what some of you have to say on this. I'm willing to learn.

[RubberMallet]

there is alot we can take away from levitical law. but in the end i look at it from a "these rules give you the best chance at surviving years wandering the wilderness" standpoint. take away the spiritual aspect of it and it makes sense. want to live? dont drink pigs blood. want to live? dont scar up your body. want to live? keep you pee pee out of the farm animals.

[jbock13]

That's a pretty good argument RM.

[PAmedic]

esp the last one. I gotta remember that.