[jcmanson]

Manson. I dont follow your logic. Following rules by location is part of our daily lives. Its like motor cycle helmets. Depends on where you are, if you have to wear one.

Don't get so caught up in "following rules." It's not about following rules it's about respect.

I'm not saying it's a total disrespect to LU if you drink at a tailgate at one of LU's away games. That's up to you to decide individually.

I was referring more to your comment about why not at home games. Because it is a rule, that i am caught up in following.

Ok. A little confusion on both our parts. The part about "dont get so caught up in following rules" is about away games. Of course we should follow whatever rules are placed on us. I'm talking about at away games where it's not a written rule since LU can't govern what goes on at other college's campuses.

[jcmanson]

I don’t want anyone to take what I’m saying the wrong way. As Christians, we have to make our own decisions on what we believe based on Scripture and how to apply it to our lives in the culture we live in. I respect someone’s decision to drink alcohol. I don’t look down on them for that decision. I wouldn’t confront someone for doing that at a tailgate at an away game or even a home game.

The 2nd issue here is Liberty and its reputation.

There is no easy clear cut answer to the initial question posed in this thread.

[JK37]

I don’t want anyone to take what I’m saying the wrong way. As Christians, we have to make our own decisions on what we believe based on Scripture and how to apply it to our lives in the culture we live in. I respect someone’s decision to drink alcohol. I don’t look down on them for that decision. I wouldn’t confront someone for doing that at a tailgate at an away game or even a home game.

Well said.

To all: does potentially being a stumblingblock apply to this discussion?

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. -Romans 14:12-14 (KJV)

[R i]

red solo cup.

[jcmanson]

To all: does potentially being a stumblingblock apply to this discussion?

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. -Romans 14:12-14 (KJV)

That's me right there. I was raised that drinking alcohol was a sin. It was ingrained in my head. While I don't necessarily agree with that, I always come back to this scripture. I don't want to be a stumbling block for my wife, my kids, my brothers and sisters, parents, friends, etc. etc.

[BJWilliams]

Do I drink alcohol? No. Is it because the Liberty Way says so? No...I decided I wouldnt do it long before I had ever even known Liberty or Jerry Falwell even existed. If I see someone I know (who is of age and not a current Liberty student) drinking it, I'll frown upon it, but Im not going to take some "holier than thou" approach and say that I am somehow a "better person" than them because of it. They are an adult, and that is their decision to do so (even if it is just one beer or one glass of wine or what have you). But as for current students, I stand by what I said before. I will talk to them privately and let them know of the trouble they could be in and give them an opportunity to own up to the matter themselves and if they dont, then take action as per Matthew 18 as well as the rules outlined.

Now as for the rules of Liberty, I go back to something my parents told me when I was home on a break when I told them about the R-rated movie policy. They simply said that while Im at Liberty, to follow the rules as they are outlined. If there was a movie I wanted to see and I wanted to see it, to use my discretion, but I had their permission to see it and if there was any issue with it once I got back, they could take it up with them (or something along those lines). Does that mean I didnt (or still dont as Im a grad student) respect the rules when I was away from campus? No. Not because of Im some legalistic Pharisee about it, but because of the fact that I know that Im being watched by people, Christian and non-Christian alike and there is a GREATER burden to live my life above reproach because I know that non-Christians see what I do.

[TH Spangler]

I can guarantee one thing, your critics will criticize you either way .... if you don't drink with them you're a holy roller. If you do you're a hypocrite ..... your choice. I think I'll have an O'Doul's and a Liberty victory over NC State please. It's time for some !

[jcmanson]

I can guarantee one thing, your critics will criticize you either way .... if you don't drink with them you're a holy roller. If you do you're a hypocrite ..... your choice.

Very true.

Next topic: What's on everyone's menu for tailgating this season? Other than beer.

[BJWilliams]

If I ever get to tailgate Im gonna have seafood along with the usual fare...

[TH Spangler]

Next topic: What's on everyone's menu for tailgating this season? Other than beer.

jcmanson, how bout some hickory smoked pork BBQ, fried chicken, hush puppies, coleslaw, baked beans, mac & cheese, brownies, cookies ... and two season tickets, club level, for the next 6 home games! I might not be able to walk to my seat after all that, but won't be because I had to much to drink ! Thank you Flames Club

[jcmanson]

Next topic: What's on everyone's menu for tailgating this season? Other than beer.

jcmanson, how bout some hickory smoked pork BBQ, fried chicken, hush puppies, coleslaw, baked beans, mac & cheese, brownies, cookies ... and two season tickets, club level, for the next 6 home games! I might not be able to walk to my seat after all that, but won't be because I had to much to drink ! Thank you Flames Club

amen brother!

[SuperJon]

I'm clear about my bias. But let me just ask this. Picture drunken, spiritually lost, NC State fans. They know that Liberty is a Christian school. Then, they see you across the street, in your Liberty gear, pull out a Bud Light. You're not drunk, and you're just going to have one. But it's in your hand. And they see it. What do you think those NC State fans would think about our school? Whether what they think is true or not?

Many of them would think, "Wow, they're not a bunch of uptight Baptists afterall."

[SuperJon]

To all: does potentially being a stumblingblock apply to this discussion?

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. -Romans 14:12-14 (KJV)

If you're tailgating with an alcoholic or people underage, yes.

If you're tailgating with all people who are of age and have no problems with alcohol, no.

[jbock13]

I'm clear about my bias. But let me just ask this. Picture drunken, spiritually lost, NC State fans. They know that Liberty is a Christian school. Then, they see you across the street, in your Liberty gear, pull out a Bud Light. You're not drunk, and you're just going to have one. But it's in your hand. And they see it. What do you think those NC State fans would think about our school? Whether what they think is true or not?

Many of them would think, "Wow, they're not a bunch of uptight Baptists afterall."

Fair point. I would just ask, is it compromising to win their approval?

[From the class of 09]

I'm clear about my bias. But let me just ask this. Picture drunken, spiritually lost, NC State fans. They know that Liberty is a Christian school. Then, they see you across the street, in your Liberty gear, pull out a Bud Light. You're not drunk, and you're just going to have one. But it's in your hand. And they see it. What do you think those NC State fans would think about our school? Whether what they think is true or not?

Many of them would think, "Wow, they're not a bunch of uptight Baptists afterall."

Fair point. I would just ask, is it compromising to win their approval?

no

[SuperJon]

I'm clear about my bias. But let me just ask this. Picture drunken, spiritually lost, NC State fans. They know that Liberty is a Christian school. Then, they see you across the street, in your Liberty gear, pull out a Bud Light. You're not drunk, and you're just going to have one. But it's in your hand. And they see it. What do you think those NC State fans would think about our school? Whether what they think is true or not?

Many of them would think, "Wow, they're not a bunch of uptight Baptists afterall."

Fair point. I would just ask, is it compromising to win their approval?

What are we compromising?

The Bible? Nope.

Things Jesus said or did? Nope.

Things an apostle specifically taught on? Nope.

What, then, are we compromising? I'd argue that we're displaying our freedom in Christ that allows us to do things in moderation and that it shows we're not tied down to any sort of behavioral law.

The only thing it'd be compromising would be the stereotype that 90 percent of our country has on the Christian faith today. And golly jeepers, we'd hate to compromise that stereotype now wouldn't we?

[LUnpretty11]

I'm really surprised at the amount of Christians on here who have no problem with drinking, and are in support of "social" or "casual" drinking.

Tailgating was a blast last year. We did it up pretty big.

First tailgate we had over 100 people at our tailgate for dogs, brats, burgers, chips, cookies, and WATER

Then we had my good buddy cater for our tailgate. 50 people this time enjoyed the most delicious jerk chicken ever created. If I could have 1 last meal before I die.. it would be this jerk chicken (served on rice).

Third tailgate we did Skyline Chili in a bowl or chili-dogs. Delectable. Highly recommended, especially if you're on a tighter budget. About 30 showed up for this tailgate.

Didn't tailgate for the last game due to the lack of money and everyone was gone.

We did our tailgating along University BLVD in the Flames Club tailgating area (yellow passes). It was awesome. The atmosphere has really bumped up a lot and it's been a blast to be apart of what's going on on gameday.

[SuperJon]

For the record, I've never drank but that isn't because I think it's wrong. I also have no problem with Liberty not allowing students to drink. Lastly, I hope we keep tailgates at Liberty home games dry.

[jenkins]

manson, you sound exactly the way i was brought up. The only issue i have is that it seems like the world is so consumed by alcohol. I just can't find any valid reason for ME to do it. Whether it's the cost, the taste, it's connation in the church or what have you. I just bothers me that it seems to run the world, there is this thought that you cant have fun without it. When i was younger (26 now) I would have been more dogmatic. However, my travels and time have brought me across the paths of many solid christians who have no problem with alcohol in moderation. So, i guess have morphed somewhere in the middle on my stance. It's just such a polarizing topic and controversial issue today and it seems to have such a firm grip on our culture. The other thing i would add is that a great deal of people who claim to be social drinkers are not what i would describe social drinkers. The bottom line is you can pull verses for both arguments for and against alcohol but each of us as a believer have to make that decision for ourselves, props to starting this convo it's intersting to read others viewpoints.

[flamehunter]

This has been a real eye opener for me. This generation (most of you guys I guess are in 20's or maybe 30's) view things in a different light than I do. Things have definitely changed among Christians, good or bad is a matter of opinion obviously. I was brought up to despise alcohol, for good reason, by my mom. We never would even eat at a restaurant that served it. Doesn't mean I didn't try it (tasted, never drunk). I had others around me to show me how foolish it was to let it control you. I thank God that I didn't like it.

Bottom line is, we are each responsible for our decisions and actions and will give an account for them one day before our Creator. We are responsible here to follow Christ's example and God's word the best we know how. We all know what the two greatest commandments are and if we follow those like we should everything else will pretty much fall in line. I have come to realize that man-made rules are as blinding as blatant sinful living. I also realize that I need to focus less on what others think of me and more about am I pleasing my Savior. I pray that we allow Christ to be the focus of our lives and allow him to work through us to reach the world with the good news.

[thepostman]

there are those that do drink while tailgating prior to LU games and enjoy bragging about it. Those people always annoyed me.

That is the only thing I have left to add to this

[jbock13]

I'm just glad that we've all been able to argue in a respective manner. If you got 50 Christians in a room to argue about this any place else, there'd be an all out war.

[phoenix]

This -- http://www.gty.org/Blog/B110809

And

[youtube]

[/youtube]

I don't have a problem with drinking. I don't drink, and won't, but that's me. I don't think the Bible, especially the New Testament, is clear enough on moderate drinking to make a huge case out of it. I DO think the Bible is pretty clear on drunkenness, and drinking to excess -- which is why I don't drink with the people I know; they're usually out to get as drunk as possible.

[JK37]

This -- http://www.gty.org/Blog/B110809

I thought the best line from this article was this:

...we surely ought to be able to say that controlled substances and other symbols of secular society's seamy side are not what the church of Jesus Christ ought to wish to be known for.

Thank you for sharing.

In all my listening and learning of both sides of this debate, I've yet to hear someone make a compelling argument for why alcohol consumption is a good thing. The side always represents a position akin to, "Its not a bad thing." The two positions are different. I repeat a previous poster's query: what argument can be made for alcohol consumption?

Why do so many defend their right to do something so vehemently, when they've yet to successfully inform me of any benefit(s) of alcohol consumption?

[SuperJon]

In all my listening and learning of both sides of this debate, I've yet to hear someone make a compelling argument for why alcohol consumption is a good thing. The side always represents a position akin to, "Its not a bad thing." The two positions are different. I repeat a previous poster's query: what argument can be made for alcohol consumption?

Why do so many defend their right to do something so vehemently, when they've yet to successfully inform me of any benefit(s) of alcohol consumption?

You're from the south, as am I. In our culture, drinking as a Christian is bad. In the north, especially the northeast (with many Christians being former Catholics), and many, many foreign countries, the culture is different. To an Italian family in the northeast, if you don't have a glass of wine with dinner at their house then it is offensive.

True story: A guy goes oversees to Italy to be a missionary. While there, trying to reach people and tell them about Jesus, he was invited to dinner by a non-church going family that was interested in hearing about what he was doing. It was a chance to share the Gospel with them. At dinner the family served wine. In that culture, refusing part of the meal is like a slap in the face. Should he have drank the glass of wine with dinner or should he have refused it?

Many of you would say that this is a loaded question or that this was a one-time occurrence. However, outside of the Bible Belt, variations of this situation happen all of the time.