[L Fan]

Jeff,

Thank-you for your response and the insight of the Chancellor and I do understand your challenge and I do think everyone at Liberty is sincerely saddened. I do think it is a missed opportunity for him to use the resources of the Law School to mount a challenge to a bad law. He would be a hero to many male athletes.

I did listen to the interview and and explanation by the compliance officer. When you state " All three of us inherited this problem and have been dealing with it together for five years" Eliminating the wrestling program is not "dealing with it". It is in essence passing the problem on to 40 wrestlers, who are now under the bus. Respectfully, any first year compliance officer could have chosen that course, only a skilled compliance officer could accomplish a course of action that did not allow for cutting a men's program. Somethings are what they are, this is a failure, and should be recognized as a failure. 70 other schools found a way not to fail.

The end state, is that you lost arguably the last Div 1 "Christian" wrestling program, a unique opportunity to build "Champions for Christ" and provide a testimony. When the program was reinstated, my oldest son wrestled for Univ of Maryland and we watched Coach Castro closely. Coach Castro is an incredible ambassador for Liberty University, and the christian faith, wrestling gave him a unique opportunity. Whether it be kids coming to camp, talking to wrestlers or an interview, he took the opportunity to speak on behalf of Liberty University what it stood for and the christian faith. He should be commended for being a great male role model and inspiration to so many in the wrestling community.

I will say this as a challenge, What will be your legacy? You took the high ground and protected Liberty's reputation. Or, you found a legal way to stop the carnage of men's athletics and possibly led to the changes that are needed in title IX. My prayer is that you will find a way to take a stand against what is wrong, painfully obvious and noted by your Chancellor. It seems many would donate to such an altruistic goal as refining title IX to actually balance the interests of men and women.

Thank-you for making me feel heard,

Sincerely,
Brad

[PAmedic]

WELL SAID

thank you for your support of Liberty Athletics and best wishes to your son

[Purple Haize]

Brad,
Very hearfelt. But again, not very logical.
Define "creative compliance director'? The NCAA landscape is littered with Compliance people becoming 'creative'.
Your only solution to the proble is to throw MORE resources at it by using the Liberty Law center, continuing with the program and at the end of the day likely being stuck with all the legal bills, have LU being labeled as a Masoginistic Entity who want to see the old days of women barefoot, pregnant in the kitchen cooking dinner for their husband. (Remember the 'other side' will fight back too)? Liberty is not the only school to take this course of action. In fact, Liberty followed the same path that other univiersity's have before making the painful choice. They TRIED to add women's sports to balance the numbers. But as is the case a lot more often than not, the numbers didn't compute. The costs became extreme and decisions had to be made.
Instead, of blaming the university, how about THANKING them for taking the chance to begin with? How about being thankful for the experiences the wrestling team was able to have during their brief resurrection? Chances, I might add, that are becoming fewer and furhter between, yet, if even for a moment these athletes were able to experience it. Is it the perfect solution? No. I am sorry that this is happening to the students, but if they were honest with themselves, they would have known this was a possibility from Day 1.
I wish them and those they love and love them the best and thank them for the success they brough to the university in thier short time.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Brad, We feel and pray for you and you son.

[L Fan]

Purple Haize
You misquoted me, please reread my post. I used the word "skilled". 70 other universities have found a way to balance a wrestling team, the wrestlers and coaches put faith in the administration that they had the where with all to do the same. My prayer is that the University sees the value in a wrestling program Why did Jerry Falwell want a wrestling program? Why would he go against the grain, when many University's were dropping their wrestling programs? As a Soldier my belief is that he saw the value in a combative sport that many of the IVY league and, our Service Academies see. Another reason, a University that owns a wrestling team enjoys an avenue to the top tier of every discipline that has made our Country great. http://www.wrestlersinbusiness.org/about/ I've seen a statisic that 58% of Fortune 500 CEO's have wrestled. Bill Gates - Harvard, Warren Buffet Penn.This sport breeds men of Leadership and Vision, I believe those are some of the qualities Dr. Falwell saw as well and desired for Liberty University. It is a sad day to see Liberty fail on this opportunity now that the founder is deceased due to a lack of vision by the AD/ Compliance office.

In response to your post. I would love to entertain your reasoning but the gaps are too large. I'm not sure how you get from legally defending a men's program from demise to barefoot pregnant women in a kitchen. That may come together for you I'm missing it.

I totally underestimated the "other side" fighting back. Really?

As far as cost, my son was a walk on, who earned a spot on the team and his tuition is paid for by me. Liberty bears no expense for his education. I am thankful to those who made this " Christian" wrestling team a reality and for the team and coaches.

If your implying my son should have seen this coming if he were "honest" with himself. I would have to respectfully reject that reasoning. I can't imagine a coach trying to recruit athletes at the Div 1 level saying to them "Come to Liberty but we may have to cut your program but hey it will be a great experience."

Thanks for the well wishes, I'll pass them on.
Brad

[Hold My Own]

Doc used to wrestle back in the day....although I'm not sure it was ever sanctioned

[Purple Haize]

So because you lose the wrestling program you don't think our compliance department is 'skilled'? Are you then saying that ONLY those compliance departments that 'found a way' to keep wrestling are skilled? Really? I think you will find that it is not JUST a compliance issue. It is a budget issue. So to take your argument to its conclusion ONLY athletic department with wrestling programs have both skilled compliance and budgeting departments.
Yes, you paid tuition for your sons education. Did you also pay the costs for him to wrestle? Fund the coaches salary, fund the maintenance and upkeep of the facilities, pay for transportation costs, off campus lodging and meal, insurance, equipment etc.?
The reason that Rev Falwell re-started the wrestling program was partially due to the promises made by those most fervent in its resurrection and I would wager a faith that things would 'work out'. They didn't and it didn't. This is not about whether or not the University sees "value" in a wrestling program, it is whether or not the University can legally and financially field a wrestling team. They can't. Neither could hundreds of other institutions. To go back to your point of those who KEPT their programs. They are quickly, if not already, the exception, not the rule.
As for the argument of the "Barefoot in the Kitchen" point, you need to watch the news more. Here is a headline that is not too far fetched to imagine. Some of these points I have seen made already in different papers.

"Liberty University, founded by the Moral Majority leader and controversial right wing leader the Rev Jerry Falwell, sues the federal government over the 1964 Civil Rights, which ended segregation in schools, and its 1972 Title IX amendment that provided for equal participation in athletics for women in College and High School athletcis.' Basically' says Mr/MS XYZ, who is a long time proponent of equality and former college athletes, ' Liberty University is apparently opposed to blacks (civil rights amendment) and women (Title IX) let a lone their clear stance against homosexuals, in becoming equal. Add to that the dirth of female coaches on their staff, esp head coaches, and the fact that not only are they grossly out of alignment now, but were way out of alignment and knew it when we re started the wrestling program." "This pattern of behavior" Mr/MS XYS continues " shows that they are making a mokery of the law and hold an obvious disregard for the female athletes on campus and continue with an out dated misogynistic world view in general."

See not that difficult.

Finally, as to the recruitment of your son, I am POSITIVE that is not the approach taken. It is asinine to even think that. But, seeing that wrestling is one of the big sacrifical lambs on the altar of Title IX, it is a bit naive to think that ANY wrestling program, with the possible exception of the Big Dogs (Big 10, Big 12/8 etc), is not an iffy proposition. It is no different then any sport. A coach recruits a kid, if the kid or parents ask if the coach will be around for 4 years they say "Absolutely", then leave 2 years later. They don't recruit a kid saying "yeah, Im hoping to land the State U job next year, but if I dont come play for me". In the words of TO "Child Please".

[L Fan]

Purple Haize,

My posts are being screened so you may see my post sometime in the future, kinda sketchy but I guess I understand.

The answer to your first 3 questions is simple...Yes Yes and Yes. So I think our differences are framed.

I did sponsor the 14 years of wrestling prior to college that he made an opportunity can I get credit for that. But that is short -sighted to think that wrestling doesn't benefit Liberty.It is a different, sport one that you would have to intimately understand. A reason the service academies and Ivy league invest in them. It is what investing in wrestling brings to those schools. Many in the Special Operations community wrestled, many in business wrestled. It is parallel values with LU that are being forsaken. This is a difficult point to grasp for people outside the wrestling community. It is truly a privilege to have a wrestling team. Jerry wanted a wrestling team because he understood the value, and wrestling paralleled his values.

I understand your desire for me to watch more News, but wouldn't you prefer to make the News? Only the pinheads are watching the carnage of Men's college wrestling, What are the Patriots doing?

[tmilgp]

I would just like to point out that I am someone that frequents the board, reads a lot of threads, but doesn't post. I don't think I'm the only one out there like that, that likes keeping up with news of the athletic department at LU and such.

There are some great things that are written on this board, and it is a great place for both information and entertainment. However, there is also that which I don't care for, and that is mainly when people speak when they have no reason to, bring senseless negativity and argumentative thoughts to other people's threads, and other manners of inappropriate posts.
Purple Haize, I don't know who you are. I don't know why you feel the need to post your crap in this particular thread. This was a legitimate heartfelt expression of regret that Liberty eliminated a successful men's D1 team, from someone who is very close to one of the athletes, and you decide to TRY (and not succeed, I might add, but that is far from my point) to pick apart his "argument". I will not even comment on what you said, because that would only escalate the unnecessary argument you created, but I just have to ask, why the heck would you decide to post that? Do you think it's always your job to correct people when they say something illogical?

I'm sorry for all the wrestlers that are affected by this. Title IX is the result of a culture confused and struggling between the concepts of equal opportunity and equal results. I don't know if Liberty could have done anything differently, but I'm sorry for the result. Best of luck whether you stay at LU or pursue your athletic career elsewhere.

- Friend of a wrestler

Now back to the shadows.

[Purple Haize]

Purple Haize, I don't know who you are. I don't know why you feel the need to post your crap in this particular thread. This was a legitimate heartfelt expression of regret that Liberty eliminated a successful men's D1 team, from someone who is very close to one of the athletes, and you decide to TRY (and not succeed, I might add, but that is far from my point) to pick apart his "argument". I will not even comment on what you said, because that would only escalate the unnecessary argument you created, but I just have to ask, why the heck would you decide to post that? Do you think it's always your job to correct people when they say something illogical?

.

Since this is the part that is directed towards me....
What "Crap" is it exactly that I am posting? Rather a vague accusation when I have provided nothing but specifics.
"Try" to pick apart the argument? I didnt know there was an argument, I was just showing that those who don't like the decision, need to focus their anger and accountability in a more appropriate direction. Again, I will spell it out, hopefully my succinctly.
1) The Athletic Department was forced to resurrect the wrestling program b/c of financial promises made to the school administration from those who wanted to see it.
2) Those promises were not even close to being fulfilled or kept.
3) Despite that, the Athletic Department and administration kept the program alive as long as possible.
4) The reason that it is no longer possible to keep the program stems from both Title IX compliance and from financial means.
These are not attacks on the wrestlers or those who are closely involved. These are just the cold hard and quite frankly sucky facts.
If you want to debate those awesome, that is what this place is here for. If not, enjoy your feeling of superiortiy in the shadow. I believe Teddy Roosevelt had something to say about that.

[PAmedic]

HAIZE, I love ya (and your taste in music) but THIS is so out of left field:

I am sorry that this is happening to the students, but if they were honest with themselves, they would have known this was a possibility from Day 1.

no friggin' WAY any 17 or 18 yr old kid coming in here, after being heavily recruited, on a full or partial scholly, even CONSIDERS that the program will be DUMPED outta the blue.

not a CHANCE.

you didn't think that way at that age, nor did I, nor does ANY 17 or 18 yr old kid. That's not how our brains are wired- everybody is invincible, everything is forever- which is why college students binge drink and orgy whenever possible. (Not saying that's a good lifestyle, but you get my point)

to infer our student athletes should have KNOWN this was coming is making the VICTIM the one at fault for the crime. [***EUPHAMISM ALERT: "you dress like that, of course you're gonna get raped"***]

***DISCLAIMER: NOT equating Title IX compliance with RAPE...

[Purple Haize]

MEDIC - Who DOESN"T like my taste in music!!
I didn't actually finish my thought, which is my bad. I wanted to add PARENTS to the mix. As in the students AND the Parents should have known this was a possibility.
There is a huge difference between playing college basketball and participating in college wrestling. For starters, there is slim to no chance ANY Men's basketball program will be cut. This is not the case with wrestling programs and hasn't been the case for years. I believe it IS nieve for someone who wants to pursue a college wrestling career to think it will never go away. Especially at LU where they already eliminated it once. It is easier to do a thing when that thing is something you have already done. It's like losing a job. What job, especially now is TRULY safe? If memory serves, you have gone through it, as have I. I can look at my industry and see that I am on a tenuous precipice.
I believe the people involved in collegiate wrestling are smart enough to understand this.
It is not about 'being a victim'. It is about making choices.
I am of course assuming you are not saying that you think my statement expressing sorrow for those who are going through this is out in left field!

[PAmedic]

good point about hoops and agreed on the job front.

also agreed on the empathy.

I would also allow you to buy me a drink and debate the topic further!

[Hold My Own]

Purple, to add to your news story you did a few posts ago, do not forget that many tried to paint Liberty University as being raciest in the 80's. Something Dr. Falwell attacked head on at a Duke University debate which seemed to defuse the erroneous assumptions many made. Heck, if you do a google search right now the first result is a prospective student asking "is Liberty University really raciest, I want to attend there next fall" that was just written on Feb 12, 2011. The response was someone who is a minority with a great story of their sibling attending Liberty. These claims on Liberty are silly, but they can be damaging if they grow.

I'm never a fan of trying to please everybody because I truly believe in trying you end up only pleasing nobody. Although your news story was not to far fetched and could even be a little worse then you painted it.

[L Fan]

As far as being naive... guilty! I guess. Who would have thought Liberty would reinstate a program only to cut it five years later. Kudos to those who saw that coming, I just didn't see their posts until after it happened. Why now are they pretending to be a prophet? That information would have help all of us naive parents who placed faith in Liberty's AD. Shame on us Purple.

[Purple Haize]

As far as being naive... guilty! I guess. Who would have thought Liberty would reinstate a program only to cut it five years later. Kudos to those who saw that coming, I just didn't see their posts until after it happened. Why now are they pretending to be a prophet? That information would have help all of us naive parents who placed faith in Liberty's AD. Shame on us Purple.

\
I agree 100%. Except for the shame on me part

[Purple Haize]

good point about hoops and agreed on the job front.

also agreed on the empathy.

I would also allow you to buy me a drink and debate the topic further!

Only under th follwoing conditions:
1) It is not in a dark alley
2) You are not armed
3) Said "drink" falls under the Liberty Way. <wink wink nod nod>
4) It is NOT the Blue Oyester Bar!

[PAmedic]

I am always armed.

otherwise, agreed.

[Purple Haize]

I am always armed.

otherwise, agreed.

Just remember that My Gun is bigger then Your gun.

[Dan P]

L Fan / Brad --

Please check your PM in-box. I am coming to L-burg this week for an important meeting and would like to talk with you prior to the meeting.

Thanks - DP