[JDUB]

I agree with HMO that there is no "gun to the head". If someone doesn't want to work at LU anymore and cannot find a job now, they may have to wait until Fall of 2012 to change employers but they should be happy they aren't at BJU as JLFJR mentioned. Liberty did their best to take care of the people involved while making hard decisions, and did a good job of it.

I understand that people are close to those who are affected, or possibly students who were given a line in class in order to gain the sympathy of the professors, but it is important to step back and look at the situation and realize that this was a move that needed made and that while change may be difficult in the long run it will be good. The people who are stirring up the most trouble about this and are being irrational were probably the ones at fault who created the bloated bureaucracy that is now being deflated.

I think the whole thing is being blown out of proportion, as this is just a reassignment. A few deans/professors who made some mistakes are now having them corrected and are upset, and there were probably some people who didn't do anything wrong who are affected by this as well, but change is a part of life and only those who adapt survive.

[JLFJR]

The movement toward a huge class size

The bottom line is that Liberty was able to reassign a certain number of professors without impacting negatively the size of classes or the faculty/student ratio in the resident program.

How can one happen without the other being effected? I understand your comment about writing, through all of the public information provided I have not seen a future class size for the English department. If it is a "huge class" then that would be disappointing...but then again, I'm not really sure how such a dramatic change could take place without negatively effecting the "size of classes or the faculty/student ratio."

Also, from personal experience at Liberty. CiderJim's wife has had a lasting effect on my life. I had her for English and really wasnt making the adjustment to college life all that well, she noticed something different about my demeanor and asked for me to stay after class. She simply asked what was going on and really helped get me through a tough transition as a 19 year old kid by continuing throughout the semester to follow up with me. That is something that I'm sure would not have happened if it was in a large lecture hall setting.....but again, I have yet to hear this to be the case for future English classes so I'm not willing to jump to that conclusion just yet. You may very well be privy to info that myself and other readers on here just dont know yet....I suppose we'll all find out.

HMO, read my original post. I explained that the reason professors can be reassigned without negatively impacting class sizes or student/faculty ratios is because (1) so many professors are under-utilized, either because of excessive release time or because they are spending their time teaching courses that are offered every semester in spite of the fact that 5 students or less enroll. For these and other reasons, many teachers are simply not in the classroom teaching so reassigning them does not affect class sizes. (2) Student/faculty ratios are not impacted because the ratios are calculated university-wide. Online and residential is treated as one school for purposes of these ratio calculations by the DOE. But, I was actually referring to the resident student/faculty ratio in my post. What I was trying to convey was, even though there may be fewer teachers per student employed in the resident program, the professors who remain in the resident program will be spending more time on average in the classroom. The number of hours that resident professors will be teaching and interacting with students will be the same as it is now even though fewer individual professors will be performing that function. So, the experience doesn't change for the student. The student might have one professor spending the same amount of time teaching that two professors were spending under the old system.

I hope that is not too confusing.

[JLFJR]

VIW, thanks for your post but there is no move toward huge class sizes at LU. Not sure what you meant by that comment. Some of LU's classes will be smaller, some will be larger, depending on the subject matter being taught.

[Purple Haize]

This thread is starting to flesh out some of the finer points. Since I dont have a dog in this fight:
1. It is obvious that the Provost's reputation among those he works "with" and those who titularly work 'for' him are 180 degrees different. It has been like that for a long time. I'm glad to see that there is acknowledgement of the need for him to 'soften his tone". It appears that needed a little more work in this case.
2. I "knew" this but this thread really makes it clear and everyone should KNOW it: People, alumni/faculty/etc, have incredible faith, hope, respect, trust and belief in the "New" Chancellor. It has to be heartening to everyone involved.
3. The contract situation is, IMO, where the issue clarifies. LU typically sends their contracts out later then other schools. In the past this hasn't been an issue b/c theer was not a big change in your teaching courses/load etc that wasn't already run through your Dean. Now that things are being shaken up, Prof's who don't like the new changes ARE stuck. It would have been nice to make the announcement either earlier this year or early next year. This would allow Prof's to digest and decide what they wanted to do. Academic calendar's are different then most and there are definitive, early time frames involved.
Which leads to:
4. Students have very few bad things to say about their Prof.s at LU, although a few of mine still may be in rehab! However, we need to stop and think a second. Is a "Take it or leave it" approaches a good way to handle academic professionals? Telling them that they should be happy they have a job and "deal with it". This is NEVER a good way to handle ANY employee b/c they are basically being told "You are not important. The PROCESS is more important then you are. If you don't like it there are 100's of people willing to take your spot." While it may not be "meant" to come across this way, it IS the way it comes across. LBC's comment about the reason we don't have tenure at LU is spot on. While it may not be the ONLY reason, we aren't a research institute, it has been said many times. Further, those in situations like this don't really care about what is happening at BJU. And while the economic component is a motivator, it is not the primary motivator for most people, especially thsoe who teach at Liberty. IMO, LU's greatest capital resource are its Professors. And in situations like this they don't seem to be treated that way. Profs DON'T speak their mind b/c of a fear of retribution/reputation. They don't want to be labeled as "not buying into the vision". Which is a death sentence at Liberty.
5. Peronsally, and in all seriousness, I think what they want to do with FLEX is a good thing. The "wave of the future" so to speak. Having dedicated Prof's who have a vision and passion for it will take Liberty Online to greater heights then can be imagined. I think great things are happening at Liberty. Count me in those that have confidence in the direction the Chancellor wants to take the school. Also, count me in those who realize growing pains are to be expected but if the reasonings are sound and handled professionally, those pains won't be as severe or elongated.

[JDUB]

As long as you are willing to accept and be pleased with a mile wide and inch deep academically, I agree Purple. Specialized fields and expertise don't happen when you spread people this thin. One thing to consider here is that many profs haven't had time to contribute significantly to their field while teaching here above the generally accepted normal load at other universities. This means that their options for leaving have dwindled as well. Another philosophy department doesn't care that you taught 6 survey courses. They care about what you've contributed to the field lately. This applies to the prestige of a given department as well. Having some of the foremost experts on the problem of evil, or the top mind on Kierkegaard in the country administer online classes is a travesty, and frankly, will be looked at as an extreme insult in academic circles. This is going to hurt the reputation if our university, especially in one of the fields that we have actually had success placing people in great positions in the secular world.

So are you saying you wish we were a research university? That's what I got from this post

[Hold My Own]

HMO, read my original post. I explained that the reason professors can be reassigned without negatively impacting class sizes or student/faculty ratios

Yes sir, that's why I quoted what you said and bolded it, because the words of Wilderness almost indicate he either did not see your explanation or is making the mistake of ignoring the explanation straight from the source (yourself). There is only one individual on this thread that is privy to ALL of the behind the scenes details and ALL of the facts. There may be others on here that have been directly effected....but they still are only a part of SOME of the process. You have a firsthand understanding of it all....so to ignore your statement of it not "impacting negatively the size of classes or the faculty/student ratio" would be very foolish.

I believe I did a poor job explaining my point in the post a few up, I quoted both of you to simply show Wilderness either he did not know you said that, or is ignoring the fact you said that. Thats all

[Purple Haize]

As long as you are willing to accept and be pleased with a mile wide and inch deep academically, I agree Purple. Specialized fields and expertise don't happen when you spread people this thin. One thing to consider here is that many profs haven't had time to contribute significantly to their field while teaching here above the generally accepted normal load at other universities. This means that their options for leaving have dwindled as well. Another philosophy department doesn't care that you taught 6 survey courses. They care about what you've contributed to the field lately. This applies to the prestige of a given department as well. Having some of the foremost experts on the problem of evil, or the top mind on Kierkegaard in the country administer online classes is a travesty, and frankly, will be looked at as an extreme insult in academic circles. This is going to hurt the reputation if our university, especially in one of the fields that we have actually had success placing people in great positions in the secular world.

I agree with you to a point. However, to quote Bill Parcells "We are who we are". And right now we are a Teaching institution. At Teaching institutes you may not get a lot or any Nobel Prize winners in economics, science or theory. What you do get is people who have "mastered" (not sure Phd'd is a word) a certain topic and are disceminating it to those who desire that knowledge.
And as a holder of a Philosophy degree, I would disagree with you about online instructing. IMO, you fail to differentiate between the knowledge of the "World Renowned Kiekegaardian" and teaching. It is the faculty members expertise and knowledge that lends to a Universities prestige, not how they disseminate that knowledge. Without bringing recent developments into play, look at the prestige that our former Seminary boss brought to the school b/c of his knowledge base. Some would say having such access to that knowledge online is a noble and great thing. Others would say that by limiting access to that knowledge increases its prestige. You say Tomato I say Tomatoe

[JLFJR]

PH, I appreciate your perspective and support for LU! Just to clarify, LU does notify faculty members who are not being renewed in December. There were several notified this past December. That is a completely different situation than reassignment. Reassignments occur every year in one form or another at different times thoughout the year. The Provost's Office worked on this complicated matter for many months and was simply not ready to implement the changes until now. Another way to look at it might be we are giving notice early (March instead of December of 2011). I know. That is a bit of a stretch but the point is nobody is losing their jobs and this is not meant as a demotion either. I understand that the deans chose faculty who had a certain level of spiritual and academic maturity for the FLEX contracts. Online is not viewed as a stepchild at LU. Online adult students are very demanding and the quality of our online professors is one of the main reasons that program has done so well. I agree with you that Liberty's greatest resource is its faculty. I hear that often and I remind the faculty of that everytime I speak to them. With all that said, I agree that a sudden reassignment (even though it is not a demotion in any sense) is not a pleasant thing for any faculty member. I can assure you that policies and procedures will be established that will prevent inefficiencies from creeping back into academic programs in the future. And you are right, the absence of tenure does make it possible to implement those types of policies.

On one of your other points, I don't know of too many professors who are afraid to speak their minds at LU. I am in constant contact with faculty and they don't hesitate to tell me what they think. Some of our best ideas for academic reforms are born that way. As a matter of fact, I received a private message from a faculty member on FB a few minutes ago (I am still home sick) letting me know that some faculty felt that my explanation of this whole matter was much clearer on this thread than it was in the faculty meeting last Monday and they were wondering why I took so much time explaining this to you guys instead of them. The faculty member said many faculty were reading this and saying to themselves, "OK, I understand now. That makes sense." I explained that many students had contacted me recently asking for clarification of what they had heard in class about this plan so I published a letter in today's Champion and participated in this thread to help clear up those misunderstandings that students had. I only say all that to give you an example of the type of dialogue I have with faculty regularly. The ones who are afraid to speak up have no reason to be afraid. I don't know of any faculty members who have been ostracized for voicing their opinions at LU. In fact, the few chronic complainers that we have had over the years seemed to stay at LU the longest!

Finally, we are a teaching university, plain and simple. We will never be a research university and part of this initiative will be the establishment of the Center for Teaching Excellence in the new library at LU. BYD's condescending view of online education has no place at LU. It is not an insult to any professor to teach any class. Teaching is a high calling, one of the highest, in fact, and our goal at LU is to place as many of the best teachers in front of as many students as possible every day. Part of this plan is also the College of General Studies so only those who feel called to teaching general courses are actually doing so and the PHDs and experts in their fields are reserved for upper level courses. There are plenty other teaching universities so professors who are primarily teachers do have options when they leave LU. We do intend to promote and encourage publishing and targeted research but we are, first and foremost, a teaching university and we are proud of that status. It may be prestigious to attend a university where the world's foremost expert on some given subject is part of the faculty but how does that benefit students if the students never had any contact with that expert in their four year college career? You would be surprised how many of the top faculty at Ivy League-type schools never set foot in a classroom.

Sorry to ramble on but, PH, you are right again that these growing pains are an unavoidable part of any institution's maturation process. I am convinced that God has great things in store for LU's future.

BYD, I just saw your last post. You are wrong on so many levels. There is nothing bad about being known for teaching excellence. And I still haven't found that amusement park you have been whining about for, what, 3, 4 years now. If you find it, let me know.

[Purple Haize]

HMO, read my original post. I explained that the reason professors can be reassigned without negatively impacting class sizes or student/faculty ratios

Yes sir,

Really? We know who is sucking up get a better Christmas present this year!
You would think this mysterious JLFJR poster is a family member or something! Have you EVER addressed anyone else on this board like that?!?!?!
Pshhhh, Yes sir.......

[jcmanson]

I love this thread. Thank you JLFJR for your insight

[Purple Haize]

JLFJR - Home sick. Great excuse!! You are just sitting at home (like someone else I know) watching "Championship Week" on ESPN. That's ok, your secret is safe with me!! (How about that shot to win it for Arkansas Little Rock huh!)
I will agree that the "Constant Complainers" never seem to leave. However, if I may be so bold you touch on two things that sort of empahsive my point.
1. Apparently your explainations here, and soon to be Champion, are probably what should have been deciminated to begin with. This MAY add to the feeling of "Second Class" citizenship that some faculty feel. Sort of a "Words" and "Actions" thing. I know that hearing how "great" we were from you and your father was always a big boost.
2. You mention 1 faculty member speaking for many. Obviously those 'many' are afraid to discuss things. While you prob. don't remember you and I had a couple of meetings about the future of the Dept. I worked for. I will agree that in those meetings I felt I could be upfront, candid and honest. I will also say that is not the case for meetings with others in positions of power. To put this delicately, it is not a YOU problem, but it is a problem with others in leadership positions at Liberty.

I can see how some Faculty would see Liberty Online as a "Demotion", but I agree with you that it is not. Again, IMO it seems the process has moved forward with little regard to the people, but such is life and hopefully something that can change in future changes. After all, other then my ESPN University World, no institute of higher learning is perfect!!

Thanks for the feedback. Who you got in the UCONN / G'town game?

[4everfsu]

All I have to say after reading these threads is this, THERE is NO CRYING in ACADEMIA!

JLFJR, thanks for bringing us up to speed on this topic. I have one question to ask you. You said LU would never be a research U. If LU starts a medical school will we then be considered a research U?

[JLFJR]

BYD, I understand where you are coming from now. Thanks for clarifying. But, please let those who are afraid to speak up know that they are welcome to talk directly to me anytime without any fear of retribution. They are doing all of us a disservice by hiding in the shadows.

And, Purple Haize, you questioned what I was really doing on my sick day. Well, actually, I have been trying to do some scholarly research on the term "academic creep". Problem is I can't find anything so you apparently saved us some embarrassment. Thanks!

[JLFJR]

4everfsu, there is some research involved in a DO school but it would only add to some of the research we are doing now -- not enough to cause us to be characterized as a research university, I don't believe.

[BJWilliams]

Well I can understand how theyd be rather leery BYD but Jerry Jr is not the average bear so if the chancellor of the school says that they can come to him and express concerns and face no repercussions...I think that you can just about take it to the bank.

[Hold My Own]

PH, I learned years ago to "know your role" And "Yes Sir" is mine



JLFjr, the perception of online reminds me of the perception many years ago of the education of a "Bible College." Over time many realized it's well rounded education that does not tell you what to believe or does it have professors that are any less qualified. Once the general public saw the products of this education first hand, they quickly became believers.

Anyways, IMO online is in a battle as well...it's being compared to VERY different education models but happen to be delivered through the means of "online." I'm not sure everyone realizes the hoops Liberty has to go through for regional accreditation through SACS....this is the same accreditation as our residential program! The same residential program that is now deemed worthy of the "outsiders" respect!

[BJWilliams]

As I said, if Jerry Jr says that they will not face any retribution, you can pretty much bank on it...I havent seen Jerry Jr give his word on something and it not happening as of yet. (and I know what youre thinking...but what about the deans...If Jerry Jr said they wont face retribution...Im sure he can "lean on" them and make sure that nothing happens to anyone who speaks up to him)

[JLFJR]

BYD, don't tell anyone who works for me but, the other day, a student sent me a message about a particular professor they loved and wanted to keep fulltime in the resident program. I told the student that, if he could get enough of his friends to sign something saying that this particular professor should remain resident and here are the reasons why, the dean might take a second look at his or her decision. I told him there were no promises or guarantees but that he should let the dean know how he feels. He wrote back and said not many of his friends agreed with him so he dropped it.

There is wisdom in a host of counsel. I don't know why anyone would not want input from their subordinates and from students.

On the other hand, if a popular professor uses classtime to complain about how he or she disagrees with their dean's decision and plays on the sympathies of the students by playing the victim or the martyr, that would be viewed in a very dim light.

BYD, I hope there will be some meetings between reassigned professors and their deans to appeal or, at least, discuss decisions about who is being reassigned. I can't imagine why any faculty would be afraid to make their opinions known.

This reminds me of a meeting I had with the former Provost and several professors a few years back. One of the professors in the meeting asked if he could be frank. I told him he could and I promised him nobody would retaliate against him for it. He spoke his mind and we solved whatever the problem was. Then, the next year, the Provost brought me the recommendations from the deans of which faculty should not be renewed. I get that list of usually 3 - 5 faculty members ever Fall. This particular professor was on the list. I asked why and the reasons they gave me were unrelated to the incident in my office but I vetoed the non-renewal anyhow because of the promise we had made to the professor.

The following year, I got reports from Dr. Rist that this professor had corrected the deficiencies that had caused his dean to recommend non-renewal and everyone was very pleased with him as a faculty member. I don't know if that will help these faculty members who are scared to speak up but that is a true story.

[4everfsu]

BYD, don't tell anyone who works for me but, the other day, a student sent me a message about a particular professor they loved and wanted to keep fulltime in the resident program. I told the student that, if he could get enough of his friends to sign something saying that this particular professor should remain resident and here are the reasons why, the dean might take a second look at his or her decision. I told him there were no promises or guarantees but that he should let the dean know how he feels. He wrote back and said not many of his friends agreed with him so he dropped it.

There is wisdom in a host of counsel. I don't know why anyone would not want input from their subordinates and from students.

On the other hand, if a popular professor uses classtime to complain about how he or she disagrees with their dean's decision and plays on the sympathies of the students by playing the victim or the martyr, that would be viewed in a very dim light.

BYD, I hope there will be some meetings between reassigned professors and their deans to appeal or, at least, discuss decisions about who is being reassigned. I can't imagine why any faculty would be afraid to make their opinions known.

This reminds me of a meeting I had with the former Provost and several professors a few years back. One of the professors in the meeting asked if he could be frank. I told him he could and I promised him nobody would retaliate against him for it. He spoke his mind and we solved whatever the problem was. Then, the next year, the Provost brought me the recommendations from the deans of which faculty should not be renewed. I get that list of usually 3 - 5 faculty members ever Fall. This particular professor was on the list. I asked why and the reasons they gave me were unrelated to the incident in my office but I vetoed the non-renewal anyhow because of the promise we had made to the professor.

The following year, I got reports from Dr. Rist that this professor had corrected the deficiencies that had caused his dean to recommend non-renewal and everyone was very pleased with him as a faculty member. I don't know if that will help these faculty members who are scared to speak up but that is a true story.

Your word Sir, is worth more then gold. Something that is lacking in today's world among many leaders. BTW I believe your father would have done the same and I also believe your father was an excellent teacher. It shows.

[VoiceInWilderness]

And, Voice in the Wilderness, there is no gun to anyone's head. Faculty can accept the contracts and, if they dislike their new assignments, they can start circulating their resumes for Fall 2012. This is just a reassignment. All faculty contracts allow that at any point during any school year, I believe. You make it sound like a termination, VIW.

True, a termination in March would be much worse than having the option to accept an unfavorable contract. The point was that the option given is either accepting a very difficult assignment or not having a job at all come Fall. By March there are few positions left that aren't spoken for, so those are the options left. It would have been far kinder to notify the faculty last October of the coming changes. I don't blame you personally for the timing, I should hasten to say.

[Purple Haize]

JLFJR - Ok, after the controversial end to the Rutgers/St Johns game I think you can agree that it SHOULD have been Rutgers basketball at midcourt with at least 1.7 left! As for "Academic Creep" I am glad I could help save any embarrassment!! Following my own thorough academic research of "Academic Creep" (i.e. Google) this is the only article I could find making a reference to it in a similar situation.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_h ... n28855622/

I'll be more than happy to do more research during the intermissions between games and the occasional half time!

HMO - Two words - Suck. Up!!!

BYD - Not to reopen old wounds but I believe in the Mid 80's we went the "Amusement Park" route. I mean who can forget the Great Reverand going down the water slide in his suit!?!!? BUT if we feel we need to go that route again, may I submit the following to use as a model?

http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/park/r ... /index.cfm

FSU - Your comment about the Chancellor and his word now has me flashing back to old Seinfeld "Its Gold Jerry GOLD". Thanks for that!

[Philonous]

Finally, we are a teaching university, plain and simple. We will never be a research university and part of this initiative will be the establishment of the Center for Teaching Excellence in the new library at LU. BYD's condescending view of online education has no place at LU. It is not an insult to any professor to teach any class. Teaching is a high calling, one of the highest, in fact, and our goal at LU is to place as many of the best teachers in front of as many students as possible every day. Part of this plan is also the College of General Studies so only those who feel called to teaching general courses are actually doing so and the PHDs and experts in their fields are reserved for upper level courses. There are plenty other teaching universities so professors who are primarily teachers do have options when they leave LU. We do intend to promote and encourage publishing and targeted research but we are, first and foremost, a teaching university and we are proud of that status. It may be prestigious to attend a university where the world's foremost expert on some given subject is part of the faculty but how does that benefit students if the students never had any contact with that expert in their four year college career? You would be surprised how many of the top faculty at Ivy League-type schools never set foot in a classroom.



BYD, I just saw your last post. You are wrong on so many levels. There is nothing bad about being known for teaching excellence. And I still haven't found that amusement park you have been whining about for, what, 3, 4 years now. If you find it, let me know.

Oh, this is rich. Let's count the fallacies shall we? I can count at least two (but maybe there's three; let's just say 2.5, how's that?).

First, you discuss BYD's 'condescending view of online education.' From there you pretend (God help you if you actually believe this) that a PhD teaching (only) online courses isn't an insult to that PhD. 'Teaching', you say, 'is a high calling, one of the highest, in fact....' Nicely done! This is so bad I can't tell if this is a red-herring or a straw man. First you obviously seem to think that online 'teaching' is teaching at all. But, of course it isn't; if that's right (it is), then you're equivocating on 'teach'. (Maybe that's the mysterious third fallacy I was looking for.) 'Teaching' online, you have to realize, is glorified (I guess?) proctoring. Online 'teachers' simply post information, a prescribed syllabus they didn't write, and other tools so that the person on the other end of the computer can teach herself. The teaching is done by the student; it's not done by the professor. Teaching done residentially (in fact, this is just what teaching is and how it's done) revolves around mentorship and the exchange of ideas through intimate interpersonal conversation largely done outside the classroom setting. Thousands of years of academia are built on this. But of course the whole reason you said this bit in the first place is to distract the argument in the first place. That's a red-herring; BYD's post has nothing to do with whether or not PhD's should be happy 'teaching' in any context. You act as if they should. Please!

What's more, you act as if PhD's have spent their entire lives on educating themselves in a specialized areas just so they can teach. That's not right, of course. They spend their lives on education because they wish to be professors. Professors, I hope you realize, are not merely teachers. They do teach, obviously; but they are academics; they are researchers (hence the PhD being a research degree). Acting as if PhD's should be happy to 'teach' online because 'teaching is a high calling' is a slap in the face to any academic. I should know: I'm working on my PhD now. So, thanks for that!

That's at least two fallacies. Here's the third: you basically call BYD a 'whiner'. Nice ad hominem! Your fellow Hoos would not be proud, I can assure you. (Oops! I just committed one of my own.) Let's keep the discussion to the issues.

Do you really believe (or, maybe you just don't care) that the academy doesn't look down on online 'education'? Believe me, it does. You're turning this university into a community college tied to an online school. What a shame that this is all happening on your watch and all at a time when the University should be improving academically by leaps and bounds. If you allow these changes to take place, LU will be more of a laughing stock than it already is.

So, LU will never be a research university? Why not? Do you, or do you not, want LU to flourish and become an elite academic university? My guess is, especially based on these latest moves, that you do not. Oh, right, these moves are to allow the university to be a better steward of the students' money, money that the evil profs have been wasting.

On reading your earlier comments, JLFJR, I have to say I'm fairly appalled. You're going to students (at any rate, whoever frequents this place) to tell them you're doing all this for their benefit, and winning them over in the process--as if they'd have any understanding of the need for course releases. You tell them basically that such releases are rip-offs to students, and they'll be inclined to believe you. What do they know about the investment of time it takes to run a department or program, much less needing time to do research for a book? You're characterizing faculty as selfish, exploitative idiots and wrapping the cloak of fiduciary responsibility around what appears to me pure avarice, lame rationalizations for lining the pockets of the university. This is obnoxious and unscrupulous to the core.

And here's the upshot of all this, Chancellor. It's just plainly obvious that you do not understand the academy. What's that? You don't care about understanding the academy? Oh. Well, here's why it matters: you're running an academic institution. If you think that profs are 'inefficient' because they have a 'reduced' load at 3/3 (instead of the oppressive 4/4) while heading up a degree program, or chairing a department, or if you think that LU should be proud of its being a 'teaching university' with no hope of ever moving beyond, then you truly have missed the point. You're battling thousands of years of academic history. Professional academia has history behind it. What have you got? Nothing. Nothing worthwhile at any rate. You aren't going to be ushering in a new era of higher learning. All you'll be doing is ushering in a new era of folks who are ill-educated, but highly degreed. What a bastardization of higher learning.

You need to hear this whether you like it or not.

[VoiceInWilderness]

VIW, thanks for your post but there is no move toward huge class sizes at LU. Not sure what you meant by that comment. Some of LU's classes will be smaller, some will be larger, depending on the subject matter being taught.

I fear we may differ over what could be considered huge. =\ Classes that have gone from 50 to 150 within two semesters would seem huge to me (I realize even Ivy League schools have some classes with 1000 in them), but let me give an example. I was talking to a man at church who teaches at the local community college and he was asking about Liberty--particularly what my opinion was concerning Liberty's future. I'm always extremely circumspect in what I say to anyone, particularly those I don't know well (even though some posts might not seem so ), so I gave a guarded answer that I felt it had tremendous potential and I hoped the Lord gave it the grace to achieve it. He asked if I saw pitfalls, and I suggested keeping academic rigor was always difficult and doing so with a growing school with larger classes might make it more so. He said that his son was a Math major at Liberty and called him over to ask how rigorous Liberty was academically. The son responded it was very rigorous his freshman year, but as the classes got larger, it got less so because it was difficult for the professors to keep up [that was unbidden testimony, honest]. The man said that matched what he observed when he visited his daughter's math class when she was struggling. He felt the Liberty professor did an excellent job of presenting the material (he teaches math at the community college), but there were so many students it was not possible for there to be question and answer for the whole class and it allowed students who were struggling to fall through the cracks.

It's true there are tutors available for certain subjects (though not all), but the relationship between student and prof is an important one. Not all profs do well in big settings--it requires a particular kind of personality that's a little larger than life. In the big-class workshops I kept hearing tips that concerned being funny, outgoing, entertaining and other things to engage students that not all faculty are cut out to be just because those are personality traits, not scholarship traits. Another student was speaking of a professor and said, "He was terrific in a smaller class of 40, but when they shifted him into the really big classes he didn't do as well." The professors who do well in large classes have large personalities. It's sad that personality has become a bigger factor than scholarliness. That means what is being transmitted to the students has less to do with what they're learning and more to do with being entertained.

Reading comprehension and writing suffer worst in big settings, as I mentioned in my previous post. Ah, and don't let me start on the Provost telling us in a meeting, "If you want to do research and write, you should find another institution!" If we don't write the texts, who will--and will they have a sound Biblical worldview when they approach the material?

Sorry this has become a diatribe--these are things I'm passionate about.

[Sly Fox]

You're going to students (at any rate, whoever frequents this place) to tell them you're doing all this for their benefit, and winning them over in the process--as if they'd have any understanding of the need for course releases.

For the record, this site's primary members tend to be alumni, staff and believe it or not a number of faculty with students present as well. And to be honest, as someone who runs this site I take some offense at the inferences made toward the site's ability to "have any understanding of the need for course releases". I get your passion and frankly I applaud your willingness to speak your mind. But let's not be disrespectful to the rest of us in order to make your points.

[JLFJR]

Philonous, I see this is your first post. I can't believe you lowered yourself out of your ivory tower to talk to all of us commoners on such a lowly message board AND an ONLINE one at that! Your colleagues would be appalled! Sir, it is your way of thinking that has destroyed higher education in this country. At many older, established universities, the careers and professional accomplishment of faculty members are the first priority. Teaching students is viewed as being beneath the dignity of PHDs -- something only Grad Assistants should be forced to endure. For that reason, most universities have unsustainable business models and can only survive with state subsidies or by spending down their endowments every year. The problem is the states are running out of money. The schools that survive will be the ones that have adapted themselves to meet the needs of their students, including adults who cannot uproot their families and spend four years in a dorm. Liberty is a leader in this new era and should be proud of that. Read our mission statement. If your first priority is not to serve and mentor our students, resident and online, then you should not be a professor at Liberty. Frankly, I hope you are not.

Why would we want to repeat the mistakes of traditional education in this country? Our online and resident students have student loan default ratios that are half the national average. The fact that our students are paying back their student loans means our graduates are finding jobs. Liberty's focus in the future will be on establishing new programs that lead to jobs that are in high demand in the marketplace.

Jesus washed the feet of others. If he was willing to lower himself to serve, then you should be happy to teach online or anywhere else that benefits students.