[01LUGrad]

[BJWilliams]

Jerry Jr coming in with both barrels blazing again...

[BJWilliams]

I have been talking to some of the professors impacted by this via private message tonight. While they are happy that their families will not be negatively impacted financially, they are not happy about leaving their comfort zones and moving into a new form of teaching. I sympathize with them because they are not the ones who mismanaged certain academic departments and created the inefficiencies that forced us to act. The teachers are not to blame and neither is Ron Godwin. And all this garbage about Ron Godwin not allowing deans to talk in meetings is just that -- garbage. Chances are that the three or four deans who are spreading these rumors about Godwin are the same ones who mismanaged their departments and caused this problem in the first place. Instead of spreading rumors and demonizing their Provost, they should be standing up and asking the professors who are being reassigned to forgive them. That would be the Christian thing to do.

I'm surprised that a few deans did do so much damage to their departments and then subsequently damaged Ron Godwin's reputation. I actually think his reputation predates most of the readers on FlameFans.

Im pretty sure that Ron Godwin met Jerry Sr before most of us younger ones (myself included) were even born

[JLFJR]

LBC78, I didn't accuse any deans of "damaging Godwin's reputation". I simply stated that I bet they are the ones making up the rumors about how his meetings are conducted. Get a grip. I believe that whatever angers us controls us. Don't let your hate for Godwin control you.

[Sly Fox]

Obviously this is an extremely sensitive subject matter where emotions are running high. I think it needs to be noted that all involved love the school and most have invested large portions of their life to the university. Let's try to be respectful to one another with a focus on helping Liberty continuing to become stronger each day.

[JLFJR]

I agree Sly Fox. Ron Godwin is not the issue here yet his credentials have been questioned even though he is a PHD and was the president of two colleges before he came to LU. He has worked hard in recent years to soften his tone and overcome his acknowledged shortcomings. He has nothing to gain by going through a painful restructuring like this in his 70s but he is helping me improve LU because he loves LU and what it stands for.

[Hold My Own]

Had a meeting today with a Dean about something unrelated and the comment of "professor transition" came up. I simply asked for his thoughts and his quote was "I believe the university handled a very tough situation the best they could and to not effect the professors in any way other then teaching avenues is amazing."

I know this Dean fairly well, he's known to be brutally honest and would voice true concerns. This was not a PR statement but his genuine feelings.

I've had the experience of walking into the office and getting called into the office of your VP and told your role/job description is going to completely change. It's not fun, luckily it worked out for me. I can only imagine how tough it would be for someone who's been doing the same thing for 20 years. Luckily nobody has to make the "life adjustments" while worried about how long unemployment checks last and if you will have to relocate your family. I seriously would never try and minimize something like this, but every so often you do need to take a step back and re-evaluate the things that are still happening in your life to be thankful for. Easier said then done I suppose.

Also, I intended this conversation to be through PM but since some chose to post it here I would just like some sort of explanation and examples. I heard the one about "Deans were not allow to talk" and while dismissed from our Chancellor already lets pretend it is true (I believe its quite an embellishment personally). It's a common fact that both sides agree that the Deans are the ones that went through to choose the professors that would be effected. If that's the case, who cares who got to speak in the meeting between the Provost and Deans.....the Deans ultimately made the list correct?

I've heard quite a few times the same argument and same key words (which makes me believe its coming from just a few individuals that are causing a fairly large effect) like "manipulation" "forming the research to paint the picture you want" all this stuff. That's fine, but I have yet to hear an actual case to be made with facts or examples worthy of the anger some are trying to paint that exists. Being upset because a change in climate is FULLY acceptable and I truly agree you have a right to feel that way....but is there any argument that the data provided about research and paying equivalent to an extra 60 professors is inaccurate? Aside from what CJ apparently told JLFjr that some professors were not taking advantage of the current structure and were using it correctly.

[JLFJR]

Sly, sorry if I caused too much of a stir but this is my fourth day at home sick with strep throat.

[LBC78]

LBC78, I didn't accuse any deans of "damaging Godwin's reputation". I simply stated that I bet they are the ones making up the rumors about how his meetings are conducted. Get a grip. I believe that whatever angers us controls us. Don't let your hate for Godwin control you.

I have never met the man personally,and I do not hate him. I am also not unhinged, as you may think! As Mr. Sly Fox said, there are many outside of the school who care greatly and want to see it prosper, academically as well as athletically. Just as I believe that we don't have to sacrifice quality on the athletic field for spiritual quality, I think that we can have academic excellence without utilizing secular corporate style management. While some of the details about Godwin's meetings might be off base, I do think there is also some truth to them. I am also sure that there are more than a few faculty members who are speaking out and adding to the conversation. While we don't want to let the world set the standard for how our school moves into the future, is it not odd that so many average folks hear faculty members speak with discontent about the Provost?

[Sly Fox]

I think we all agree that this transition is going to be challenging on a number of fronts. From the perspective of the profs who suddenly feel like they are going to have to be re-trained in their new positions which are taking away their direct contact with students, the angst is genuine and valid. I think everyone agrees that the residential & online teaching positions contrast in stark fashion. For some this may turn out to be a revitalizing experience. For others, the vastly increased schedule load of online classes is going to be a challenge. Frankly until the changes occur nobody really knows how the impact will be felt.

Hopefully everyone gives this an opportunity to succeed before they begin bailing on the process. Teaching online classes likely wasn't what most professors had in mind when they began their academic careers since such a concept is relatively new. But the fact of the matter is that the online experience is continuing to grow not only at LU, but worldwide, at an exponential rate. The future is arriving at broadband speed and the ability to adapt to the transition will be in everyone's best interests.

[Sly Fox]

Sly, sorry if I caused too much of a stir but this is my fourth day at home sick with strep throat.

I finally left my house for the 1st time in six days yesterday from a vicious flu strain I picked up last week working with a client in Minnesota. I completely understand the cabin fever. Based on my horrendous experience, I'm praying you feel better pronto.

[LBC78]

.... new positions which are taking away their direct contact with students...

This is the point that probably is the most bothersome. I really enjoyed the time I could spend with professors on a one to one basis. This is very important- the mentoring that the on-campus experience offers- and should be considered (even though it might cost more). Again, no axe to grind with RG- I don't work at LU and if I did, I'd be more than willing to speak my mind and take the medicine!
But I do care about the school and am a contributor in more ways than one.

[Hold My Own]

LBC78, I didn't accuse any deans of "damaging Godwin's reputation". I simply stated that I bet they are the ones making up the rumors about how his meetings are conducted. Get a grip. I believe that whatever angers us controls us. Don't let your hate for Godwin control you.

I have never met the man personally,and I do not hate him. I am also not unhinged, as you may think! As Mr. Sly Fox said, there are many outside of the school who care greatly and want to see it prosper, academically as well as athletically. Just as I believe that we don't have to sacrifice quality on the athletic field for spiritual quality, I think that we can have academic excellence without utilizing secular corporate style management. While some of the details about Godwin's meetings might be off base, I do think there is also some truth to them. I am also sure that there are more than a few faculty members who are speaking out and adding to the conversation. While we don't want to let the world set the standard for how our school moves into the future, is it not odd that so many average folks hear faculty members speak with discontent about the Provost?

I'm sure, when I've been in meetings with Dr. Godwin it's quite apparent that there is a person in charge of the meeting which I respect and admire honestly, after all he did call the meeting right? I've also seen him personally speak to individuals that do NOT speak up because they are not contributing to the meeting which is really something that he does not care for (which is why I find that example of people not being allowed to speak ironic). When he speaks, you listen...as you should for anyone who is a superior. If I was just told some news that I did not care for....I may leave that meeting with the idea of "I was not allowed to speak" when really its simply there is no talking over one another in this environment and he spoke more then I did. I wasn't in any of these though and really have no clue so take this for what its worth...not much!!! I'm not even sure it makes much sense, I'm not running on a ton of sleep.... apologies...


P.S. I simply want to add one thing about your comment about the discontent. We really really really need to be careful of basing our opinions on this current situation based off of previous emotions. Its nearly impossible to get an objective view if you have preconceived ideas about an individual.

By the way, I love your concern for the University and judging by your name you've been an alumnus for a few years now....you obviously still have a deep commitment and that's great to see. Its quite apparent that God's hand of protection is still on our University therefore take great comfort as hopefully our professors are doing as well that these decisions go WELL beyond any of the parties involved. I also hope that decisions of this magnitude are prayed upon for guidance which I believe to be the case.

[SuperJon]

Sly, sorry if I caused too much of a stir but this is my fourth day at home sick with strep throat.

You didn't cause a stir. You gave this board life. Otherwise we would have nothing to talk about until August.

[Hold My Own]

Sly, sorry if I caused too much of a stir but this is my fourth day at home sick with strep throat.

You didn't cause a stir. You gave this board life. Otherwise we would have nothing to talk about until August.

You've given up on baseball already???? They are going to bounce back! I think...

[SuperJon]

I wasn't high on them coming into the season. It didn't take long to be proven right. Just not a fan of the coach. Want him to be successful but just don't see it.

[LBC78]

When he speaks, you listen...as you should for anyone who is a superior. If I was just told some news that I did not care for....I may leave that meeting with the idea of "I was not allowed to speak" when really its simply there is no talking over one another in this environment and he spoke more then I did. I wasn't in any of these though and really have no clue so take this for what its worth...not much!!!

I believe I would respond that a more typical posture of a Provost-Faculty relationship would be one of a listening Provost versus a Provost who can only be listened to. The faculty know the students and their desires better than a Provost would, simply due to the overwhelming responsibilities of the office. Decisions made unilaterally and then issued as a directive are very different than decisions made through the efforts of the faculty as a body.

[VoiceInWilderness]

It is my understanding that the faculty affected have now less than 8 days to accept their new contracts.

After my good reputation has been impugned (ahem), I'd just like to say that this is one of the most difficult elements for the profs affected. It's too late to find another job for next year--for teaching positions, your resume has to be out by December and if you don't already have interviews by February, the odds of getting a good position are either slim or none. For all practical purposes, these profs have a gun to their heads and most will have to accept or be jobless. For their family's sakes, they should have been notified of this last October so they could have been looking.

[Hold My Own]

When he speaks, you listen...as you should for anyone who is a superior. If I was just told some news that I did not care for....I may leave that meeting with the idea of "I was not allowed to speak" when really its simply there is no talking over one another in this environment and he spoke more then I did. I wasn't in any of these though and really have no clue so take this for what its worth...not much!!!

I believe I would respond that a more typical posture of a Provost-Faculty relationship would be one of a listening Provost versus a Provost who can only be listened to. The faculty know the students and their desires better than a Provost would, simply due to the overwhelming responsibilities of the office. Decisions made unilaterally and then issued as a directive are very different than decisions made through the efforts of the faculty as a body.

Which I believe the provost would be admitting by passing to the Deans the ability to make the decision. Again, I know NOTHING about this and am making comments based on the very limited knowledge that was obtained by reading some of these posts and a few passing comments....and I dont like speaking to much about something I'm not fully aware of....at least with things as sensitive as this.

[JLFJR]

BYD, I have personally heard from many of the professors. If others want to discuss this, they know who to contact and how. Most of the professors who have contacted me acknowledge that the inefficiencies do exist and, while they wish they could continue to do exactly what they have done in the past, they understand that a certain number of reassignments are necessary and they are extremely grateful that LU worked so hard to make sure everyone of them was offered full employment. The only thing I can do at this point is expedite the growth of the residential program. That will allow any of the reassigned professors who want to return to resident teaching the opportunity to do so. Online professors have told me, however, that once the reassigned professors start teaching online, they will not want to return to residential. I guess we will find out in about 17 months. It takes that long to build some dorms!

And, Voice in the Wilderness, there is no gun to anyone's head. Faculty can accept the contracts and, if they dislike their new assignments, they can start circulating their resumes for Fall 2012. This is just a reassignment. All faculty contracts allow that at any point during any school year, I believe. You make it sound like a termination, VIW. By the way, terminations and cancellations of programs are exactly what is happening at BJU - so it could be much worse.

[Hold My Own]

It is my understanding that the faculty affected have now less than 8 days to accept their new contracts.

After my good reputation has been impugned (ahem), I'd just like to say that this is one of the most difficult elements for the profs affected. It's too late to find another job for next year--for teaching positions, your resume has to be out by December and if you don't already have interviews by February, the odds of getting a good position are either slim or none. For all practical purposes, these profs have a gun to their heads and most will have to accept or be jobless. For their family's sakes, they should have been notified of this last October so they could have been looking.

It seems you're pretty informed on the situation. Can I ask why this is being described in the same sense that a person would describe a awful work environment with a boss that brings them to tears on a daily basis and your wife agrees a time of unemployment is a better option then to continue watching you endure this. This is a change for those involved, and that's really understandable....this is a known and stated fact by all participating in this thread, but is this really something that equates to "a gun to their head" or something that will take great effect on the family? Its not effecting the family financially, it's not effecting the families retirement fund, health care...what is effecting the family? I'm really trying to understand where you or those you know are coming from and basing some of these comments on. Is it more of the thought of being disrespected maybe by being asked to teach online?

EDIT: I posted at the same time at JLFjr, wasnt trying to echo anything. He may be worried about having the same thought pattern as myself though....

[VoiceInWilderness]

I've never heard any of the things posted by these "new users" repeated by my profs.

I personally trust that Chancellor Falwell knows what he's doing

Everybody turns on the new dog...=) I would agree that Jerry is a good-hearted man and is extremely dedicated to his father's vision. It's really a tough spot to be in, to have such a grave responsibility thrust upon you so suddenly. A business as vast and demanding as this one would have even the best of men running for the exits.

But if I were so fortunate as to have his ear, I'd remind him of why for 400 years Protestants have been so keen on colleges where reading comprehension and writing were thought important: because they wanted their students to be able to read the Bible with comprehension and then in turn share what they learned with the pen, which was said to be "mightier than the sword." The movement toward a huge class size and having a single professor teach 16 online classes per semester makes it impossible to have students write much. It also makes essay tests impossible, which is the only way to know if the students really get what you teach--multiple guess tests can be graded electronically, but simply can't test mastery of a subject (particularly in an area like the aforementioned Philosophy). If those teaching lose their ability to have students write 10-20 page papers and have challenging tests, we've lost the most basic reason for having a Christian college: teaching students how to analyze The Text and share what they learn with others.

[VoiceInWilderness]

Prof A is under contract to teach 15 hours (5 classes) a semester
Prof A is the department chair, so subtract 3 hrs (1 class) in release time for those duties
Prof A is also on the Widgets for Wisdom Comittee which also carries a 3 hour (1 class) release
Prof A is now teaching 9 hours (3 classes)
HOWEVER....Since LU...er...Liberty ... is booming there are courses that need taught but no prof to teach them!
Prof A rides to the rescue and decides to teach one of these classes.

Fortunately, I'm not in this predicament, but I can say that exactly such is indeed happening and to an impassioned observer it would look like fraud, but has been done with good intentions--trying to make the best of a bad situation.

[Hold My Own]

The movement toward a huge class size

The bottom line is that Liberty was able to reassign a certain number of professors without impacting negatively the size of classes or the faculty/student ratio in the resident program.

How can one happen without the other being effected? I understand your comment about writing, through all of the public information provided I have not seen a future class size for the English department. If it is a "huge class" then that would be disappointing...but then again, I'm not really sure how such a dramatic change could take place without negatively effecting the "size of classes or the faculty/student ratio."

Also, from personal experience at Liberty. CiderJim's wife has had a lasting effect on my life. I had her for English and really wasnt making the adjustment to college life all that well, she noticed something different about my demeanor and asked for me to stay after class. She simply asked what was going on and really helped get me through a tough transition as a 19 year old kid by continuing throughout the semester to follow up with me. That is something that I'm sure would not have happened if it was in a large lecture hall setting.....but again, I have yet to hear this to be the case for future English classes so I'm not willing to jump to that conclusion just yet. You may very well be privy to info that myself and other readers on here just dont know yet....I suppose we'll all find out.

[BJWilliams]

I can also speak from personal experience as it relates to English classes...my English 102 Professor would not sign anyone into their class (or at least that was the rumor) Well, her section was the one that best worked with my schedule, so I went by their office to talk about it. After a brief conversation, I was told I reminded them of one of their relatives and after a few chuckles I was signed into the class...I am now very good friends with the family (including getting to stay briefly in an apartment on their property when I needed a place to stay after Winterfest one year until school started again).