[jcmanson]

Chancellor, is there a process put in place (or should there be one) where we review "academic creep" every so often? Like every 5 years we do an audit to ensure this issue does not resurface.

[BJWilliams]

Isnt it so much better to wait for more information than to make a knee jerk reaction? (Not saying you did BYD but it does help when you can get more information from people who are on the inside)

I don't think I was being knee jerk at all. 1) we wouldn't have gotten any of this info today had I not brought it up, and 2) this matter is far from resolved for the people that are very upset about this. I understand the administration's view on the matter, but I also understand the concerns of faculty and grad students in particular. If I can get the permission of some of them, I will paste portions of the discussions on facebook about this. They have valid points too.

1) Are your reading comprehension skills that lacking? I clearly said that I was NOT saying that you made a knee jerk reaction.

2) Im sure that the people affected here would still be upset but maybe they need to step back, take a deep breath, let the emotion die down and let the administration work this plan that Jerry Jr has better explained out. Maybe then theyll look back and see that it was rather pointless to get so upset...course maybe the opposite happens but maybe the administration deserves the benefit of the doubt right now

[ALUmnus]

Someone's been particularly cranky lately.

[Purple Haize]

This has been with me since I read the thread. But is there another phrase we can use than "Academic Creep"? While I understand the meaning, on the surface it seems counter intuitive that an institution of higher learning would be adverse to having Academics creep into teaching.
Is it a big deal? No, it may just be my contrarianism.
Also, it is important to keep in mind that at this point, Liberty is a teaching institution, not a research institution. So professors who chose to work here understand that they are going to have a larger teaching load then their counterparts at State run or other institutions.
Again.....I would have gladly offered my services to the online program!

[Hold My Own]

I do not believe JLFjr's post on Flame Fans is a PR release to the main stream media

I have not heard that word being used yet, except on here and I hope he does not start censoring his words that help paint a better picture for us

[TDDance234]

[Schfourteenteen]

1) Are your reading comprehension skills that lacking? I clearly said that I was NOT saying that you made a knee jerk reaction.

I'm so glad flamefans doesn't ban the bi-polar ratards. (Not saying you are one BJ, but it's fun reading your posts)

[VoiceInWilderness]

Having read the posts, there does seem to be the reluctance on the part of some to find the Provost as having the best of intentions and handling things in an ideal way. It certainly sounds like there has been waste and even fraud in the matter of release time, and I would love to believe that Godwin is working with the Deans on this, but I've heard the Deans are not even allowed comment when they go to meetings with the Provost, having been given warnings never to contradict him in a meeting--they are there to listen and obey, nothing more. I find that rather unsettling, since the Deans are supposed to represent the best and brightest of all the university, and certainly the most knowledgeable in their particular field.

The Biblical principle being that there is wisdom in the counsel of many, and the practical principle being that one man can't possibly know everything, it does tend to make one wonder if the absolute best policies are being instituted in the absolutely best way.

[BJWilliams]

1) Are your reading comprehension skills that lacking? I clearly said that I was NOT saying that you made a knee jerk reaction.

I'm so glad flamefans doesn't ban the bi-polar ratards. (Not saying you are one BJ, but it's fun reading your posts)

I appreciate that SCH14...yeah there are times that I think you can be the north end of a southbound mule but I am glad you find some level of entertainment from them

[phoenix]

HOWEVER, as a former occupant of a corner office in Shilling, let me just say I would LOVE to teach Online Classes. Are you kidding me? Your students are generally going to be older, more mature and most likely better motivated.

I wish that were always true. I have never had a big problem in my classes, but my wife is taking undergrad accounting classes (for her second Liberty BS degree -- she walks in May) and she's run into a lot of students who don't care at all -- and it kills her because she's invariably grouped with them for group projects. Girl she's grouped with right now wrote one page of a 12 page group paper, and the majority of that was copied and pasted from online texts, so the plagiarism alarm went off and the whole paper got nailed for it.

The grad students I've worked with have usually been a bit older and a bit more mature -- a lot of them, though, are only getting their masters because they have to to keep their teaching credentials, so there's only a minimal amount of motivation there.

[JLFJR]

PH, you are right about academic creep. The Provost coined that term but it will just cause confusion. I have removed it from my post above.

[JDUB]

It seems like Godwin is not a popular figure though, from what I gather.

People who bring change generally aren't, but he is doing what is best for the school. If people do not want to do what is best for the school, maybe they shouldn't be at the school in the first place

[From the class of 09]

[youtube]

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[TDDance234]

Having read the posts, there does seem to be the reluctance on the part of some to find the Provost as having the best of intentions and handling things in an ideal way. It certainly sounds like there has been waste and even fraud in the matter of release time, and I would love to believe that Godwin is working with the Deans on this, but I've heard the Deans are not even allowed comment when they go to meetings with the Provost, having been given warnings never to contradict him in a meeting--they are there to listen and obey, nothing more. I find that rather unsettling, since the Deans are supposed to represent the best and brightest of all the university, and certainly the most knowledgeable in their particular field.

The Biblical principle being that there is wisdom in the counsel of many, and the practical principle being that one man can't possibly know everything, it does tend to make one wonder if the absolute best policies are being instituted in the absolutely best way.

Where do you guys come up with this stuff? Some of the stuff posted on this board is worse than the 3rd floor of DeMoss is unusable crap.

[JDUB]

I could be wrong bc I've never been to Phoenix, but I don't think they have the professors, facilities, athletics, staff, culture, etc that LU has and they are not even the same ballpark. Sure we have a large online program that obviously helps us grow the school, but we are still Liberty University, the largest Christian University in the world. I don't know how you could go on campus on a regular basis or be around our students and honestly think we are closer to Phoenix than Notre Dame.

As far as Academics go, Dr. Godwin's speech in convo combined with JLFJR post above clearly explains how the school is getting better academically. If you disagree with JLFJR then please write it out more clearly because I have a hard time believing that you can judge the academic effect of this more than the Chancellor and Provost of the school can.

Maybe you should apply for an advisor position to them so they can learn from your knowledge?

[Purple Haize]

RG was Dr Falwell's "Hatchet Man" when the good Rev was with us. His role has not changed. Im not sure why anyone would be suprised, but that is just me.

PHOENIX - You are right and make my point. YOU have never had a problem and now in her second year your wife is running into her first problem! I'd be more than happy to take those odds!

JLFJR - You must be high up on the food chain to have such pull!

[ALUmnus]

I could be wrong bc I've never been to Phoenix, but I don't think they have the professors, facilities, athletics, staff, culture, etc that LU has and they are not even the same ballpark.

AAHAHAAHA! Please tell me this was sarcasm, please.

[BrysOn_G]

Having been through many undergraduate online classes and an entire online graduate program, I can see these changes being very beneficial to those in online programs. At times I remember thinking during some of my online classes that my residential professors could bring a lot to the online environment in terms of knowledge, teaching styles, etc. In fact, the online classes I gained the most from were taught by FLEX profs. Even if giving the online program a boost was not a direct reason behind these changes, it will be a direct result.

[LBC78]

, but I've heard the Deans are not even allowed comment when they go to meetings with the Provost, having been given warnings never to contradict him in a meeting--they are there to listen and obey, nothing more. I find that rather unsettling, since the Deans are supposed to represent the best and brightest of all the university, and certainly the most knowledgeable in their particular field.

Where do you guys come up with this stuff? Some of the stuff posted on this board is worse than the 3rd floor of DeMoss is unusable crap.

...and who are you TDD? Those who are close to such people know that the Voice is correct and that certain readers who post are aware of this truth, as well. As a looooonnnngggg time supporter of the school, I find the office of Provost rather suspect in its current incarnation. I thought JLFJR's initial response was reasonable; I find the way it has been presented by Ron Godwin as rather heavy handed and I think that quite a few faculty members are very discouraged at the direction that things seem to be heading under Godwin's leadership. Back in the day, it was assumed that faculty were in it for the ministry aspects; I don't think that good faculty members are lining up today to follow Ron Godwin's vision as they did for Dr. Falwell.

[SuperJon]

JDub, Bryson, stick around for some things other than the ones the chancellor posts in. It can still be fun around here.

[TDDance234]

...and who are you TDD? Those who are close to such people know that the Voice is correct and that certain readers who post are aware of this truth, as well. As a looooonnnngggg time supporter of the school, I find the office of Provost rather suspect in its current incarnation. I thought JLFJR's initial response was reasonable; I find the way it has been presented by Ron Godwin as rather heavy handed and I think that quite a few faculty members are very discouraged at the direction that things seem to be heading under Godwin's leadership. Back in the day, it was assumed that faculty were in it for the ministry aspects; I don't think that good faculty members are lining up today to follow Ron Godwin's vision as they did for Dr. Falwell.

I simply can't wrap my mind around an institution that tells it's deans, respected deans, to sit down and shut-up. I worked for LU for years and certainly knew that when someone like Dr. Godwin, or even Dr. Falwell walked in the room for a meeting - I was to keep my mouth shut unless addressed.

If the faculty is that opposed to the university's current leadership, maybe it is better that they're being reassigned to less visable roles.

[ATrain]

I will say some of the "new users" posts are consistent with rumors I've heard around campus regarding Ron Godwin, in one-on-one conversations with professors, I've never heard any of the things posted by these "new users" repeated by my profs.

I personally trust that Chancellor Falwell knows what he's doing, and will do what is best to improve the quality of education received in both traditional and online classrooms, as well as make Liberty more efficient, and if there is a problem with Godwin, then someone will bring it to his attention and he will handle it in best manner possible.

[JLFJR]

I have been talking to some of the professors impacted by this via private message tonight. While they are happy that their families will not be negatively impacted financially, they are not happy about leaving their comfort zones and moving into a new form of teaching. I sympathize with them because they are not the ones who mismanaged certain academic departments and created the inefficiencies that forced us to act. The teachers are not to blame and neither is Ron Godwin. And all this garbage about Ron Godwin not allowing deans to talk in meetings is just that -- garbage. Chances are that the three or four deans who are spreading these rumors about Godwin are the same ones who mismanaged their departments and caused this problem in the first place. Instead of spreading rumors and demonizing their Provost, they should be standing up and asking the professors who are being reassigned to forgive them. That would be the Christian thing to do.

[LBC78]

I simply can't wrap my mind around an institution that tells it's deans, respected deans, to sit down and shut-up. I worked for LU for years and certainly knew that when someone like Dr. Godwin, or even Dr. Falwell walked in the room for a meeting - I was to keep my mouth shut unless addressed.

If the faculty is that opposed to the university's current leadership, maybe it is better that they're being reassigned to less visible roles.

I remember years ago a discussion with a faculty member regarding tenure. The idea was that you "couldn't let the inmates run the prison"- though not in those exact words! Deans and others at the higher end of the educational spectrum are not viewed as important parts of process at Liberty and they never have been. Why else do we see so much shuffling of authority positions- with people like RG making decisions about faculty positions when he really has very little experience as a university administrative leader. As in the past, the ladder climbers are still rewarded, while the true workhorses of the school are treated as chattel. As for keeping one's mouth shut, that is nothing new, either. Frankly, RG could learn a thing or two by involving some of the seasoned faculty members in decisions. Few would ever chance allowing their voice to be heard due to job security.

[LBC78]

I have been talking to some of the professors impacted by this via private message tonight. While they are happy that their families will not be negatively impacted financially, they are not happy about leaving their comfort zones and moving into a new form of teaching. I sympathize with them because they are not the ones who mismanaged certain academic departments and created the inefficiencies that forced us to act. The teachers are not to blame and neither is Ron Godwin. And all this garbage about Ron Godwin not allowing deans to talk in meetings is just that -- garbage. Chances are that the three or four deans who are spreading these rumors about Godwin are the same ones who mismanaged their departments and caused this problem in the first place. Instead of spreading rumors and demonizing their Provost, they should be standing up and asking the professors who are being reassigned to forgive them. That would be the Christian thing to do.

I'm surprised that a few deans did do so much damage to their departments and then subsequently damaged Ron Godwin's reputation. I actually think his reputation predates most of the readers on FlameFans.