[jcmanson]

I'm not sure how many of you care about this, but it should be entertaining.

Cleveland fans have a "chant sheet" for the game - http://cavschants.files.wordpress.com/2 ... n-pdf1.pdf

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/0 ... 90547.html

Some of the chants include "Ak-Ron Hates-You," "Wit-nessed Noth-ing," and "No-Ring King."

[jcmanson]

So Manson...how are you liking the Miami Heat so far?

just fine actually

[jcmanson]

Pat Riley will not take over, and they will still be fine.

[ToTheLeft]

Pat Riley will not take over, and they will still be fine.

Oh, so you're one of the "When LeBron starts playing point" people then?

Otherwise, you have nothing to be "fine" about. Your "team" isn't very good together.

Let's see some of the teams with good records:

C's - Good PG
Magic - Above Average PG
Utah - Great PG
Lakers - Slightly above average PG
Spurs - Good PG
New Orleans - Great PG

It's no secret. The Heat will continue to struggle to find consistency with their lack of depth and lack of a point guard. A slightly above average PF, a shoot-a-lot slasher/scorer 2-guard, and a freak athlete 3 who is supposed to be the Chosen One isn't enough to just launch a team to victory every game, and break all the records.

[TDDance234]

Losing Mike Miller and Haslem was a huge punch in the gut. Those were your top 2 guys off the bench and to lose them this early hurts.

[jcmanson]

Losing Mike Miller and Haslem was a huge punch in the gut. Those were your top 2 guys off the bench and to lose them this early hurts.

This

[jcmanson]

Pat Riley will not take over, and they will still be fine.

Oh, so you're one of the "When LeBron starts playing point" people then?

Otherwise, you have nothing to be "fine" about. Your "team" isn't very good together.

Let's see some of the teams with good records:

C's - Good PG
Magic - Above Average PG
Utah - Great PG
Lakers - Slightly above average PG
Spurs - Good PG
New Orleans - Great PG

It's no secret. The Heat will continue to struggle to find consistency with their lack of depth and lack of a point guard. A slightly above average PF, a shoot-a-lot slasher/scorer 2-guard, and a freak athlete 3 who is supposed to be the Chosen One isn't enough to just launch a team to victory every game, and break all the records.

[ToTheLeft]

Losing Mike Miller and Haslem was a huge punch in the gut. Those were your top 2 guys off the bench and to lose them this early hurts.

This

And that's what happens when you have no depth because you spend all your money on 3 superstars. I really hope you don't act like the Heat are a victim. Injuries happen, it's pro sports. If the Magic lost Lewis and Carter they wouldn't go down the drain since there is talent behind them. The Heat are top heavy. I'd hate to see what happened if Wade or LeBron got hurt.

[ToTheLeft]

Pat Riley will not take over, and they will still be fine.

Oh, so you're one of the "When LeBron starts playing point" people then?

Otherwise, you have nothing to be "fine" about. Your "team" isn't very good together.

Let's see some of the teams with good records:

C's - Good PG
Magic - Above Average PG
Utah - Great PG
Lakers - Slightly above average PG
Spurs - Good PG
New Orleans - Great PG

It's no secret. The Heat will continue to struggle to find consistency with their lack of depth and lack of a point guard. A slightly above average PF, a shoot-a-lot slasher/scorer 2-guard, and a freak athlete 3 who is supposed to be the Chosen One isn't enough to just launch a team to victory every game, and break all the records.

Just as I thought.

[jcmanson]

Losing Mike Miller and Haslem was a huge punch in the gut. Those were your top 2 guys off the bench and to lose them this early hurts.

This

And that's what happens when you have no depth because you spend all your money on 3 superstars. I really hope you don't act like the Heat are a victim. Injuries happen, it's pro sports. If the Magic lost Lewis and Carter they wouldn't go down the drain since there is talent behind them. The Heat are top heavy. I'd hate to see what happened if Wade or LeBron got hurt.

Never said they were a victim. Injuries happen. It's just pushed the "greatness" of the team back.

[jcmanson]

Just as I thought.

There's nothing to talk about we would just go round and round in circles. The team is 11-8, not great, not terrible. They will make the playoffs and we'll see what happens then. Who cares if they finish the season 73-9 or 55-27? It doesn't matter. All that matters is what they do in the playoffs.

[jcmanson]

I just find it funny how the media starts swirling all these rumors when they lose 3 out 4. Yet whenever they have a long winning streak (which will happen sometime this season) I'm sure the media won't talk about them.

Does anyone hear how the Lakers have lost 4 in a row? We should be hearing - "oh no, Phil Jackson has lost it, Kobe is too old, etc." Yet, silence.

IMO, there should be no "frothing at the mouth" over either of the 2 instances. Both teams will be there come playoff time. No need to freak out in November/December.

[olldflame]

I agree it's a bit early to evaluate the Heat. As far as the Lakers are concerned, actually my impression is that quite a bit has been made of their 4 game skid. I certainly did not need to do any research to discover for instance that none of Phil's previous 11 championship teams ever lost 4 straight during the regular season.

[jcmanson]

I agree it's a bit early to evaluate the Heat. As far as the Lakers are concerned, actually my impression is that quite a bit has been made of their 4 game skid. I certainly did not need to do any research to discover for instance that none of Phil's previous 11 championship teams ever lost 4 straight during the regular season.

Have you watched ESPN the last week or so? The Heat have dominated their coverage. The lakers get a 2 minute segment.

[olldflame]

Lebron's return to Cleveland is a "story". That's the way it is in media sports these days. It has nothing to do with the Heat or how they are playing.

[SumItUp]

Let's see some of the teams with good records:

C's - Good PG
Magic - Above Average PG
Utah - Great PG
Lakers - Slightly above average PG
Spurs - Good PG
New Orleans - Great PG

Thunder? Westbrook? Hello?!?

[flamesbball84]

first of all, rondo is a great PG. Name me how many PGs in the NBA can dominate a game right now and not even have to score as much as 10 points a game. Rondo is about it. Second, the Hawks have a good record (12-7; .632; 3rd in the East) with Mike Bibby being a below average PG at best these days. However, all the other NBA teams with a .500 or better record do have some reliable if not spectacular PGs. Even some of the below .500 teams have average to good or better ones: Suns with Nash, Warriors with Curry, Grizz with Conley, Portland with Andre Miller, Washington with Wall, Milwaukee with Jennings, Toronto with Calderon, New Jersey with Harris, and Philly with Holiday. So I disagree with the notion that PG is THE issue.

The problem is that the big three don't fit together well. Specifically LeBron and Wade, on offense, they are basically the exact same player. They both are "ball stoppers" on the perimeter that need the ball basically all the time to be able to score or create for others. Even though they are able to create for others, neither one can really excel off the ball because that isn't their game. That generally doesn't work out very well. Look at the most recent NBA Champions and how many perimeter ball stoppers they have:

2009-10 Los Angeles Lakers - Kobe (he is not nearly as bad as he was in the Shaq era either)
2008-09 Los Angeles Lakers - Kobe
2007-08 Boston Celtics - none
2006-07 San Antonio Spurs - none
2005-06 Miami Heat - Wade, Walker (the lone exception in this decade because the refs blew the whistle everytime someone breated on Wade)
2004-05 San Antonio Spurs - none
2003-04 Detroit Pistons - none
2002-03 - San Antonio Spurs - none
2001-02 - Los Angeles Lakers - Kobe
2000-01 - Los Angeles Lakers - Kobe

[thepostman]

Yet whenever they have a long winning streak (which will happen sometime this season) I'm sure the media won't talk about them.

REALLY!!!??? Are you serious?? the media won't talk about them?? I could care less about the Heat and come playoff time they will be fine, but come on man, no matter what happens the media WILL NOT stop talking about the Heat. That has got to be the craziest thing I have ever heard...

ok proceed with this meaningless conversation...I will get back to enjoying the Magic getting better every game

[LUconn]

alright, I just heard on the radio that there will be no anti Lebron signs or shirts allowed. Lame.

[thepostman]

And for the record I don't give a rip about the Not Basketball Association.

please explain why? I know this is the common opinion on this board, but I don't get it...some teams are boring, but the nba has a whole has become much more entertaining the last 5 years or so

[ToTheLeft]

Yet whenever they have a long winning streak (which will happen sometime this season) I'm sure the media won't talk about them.

REALLY!!!??? Are you serious?? the media won't talk about them?? I could care less about the Heat and come playoff time they will be fine, but come on man, no matter what happens the media WILL NOT stop talking about the Heat. That has got to be the craziest thing I have ever heard...

ok proceed with this meaningless conversation...I will get back to enjoying the Magic getting better every game

and LeBron brought all the coverage upon himself. He made a deal with ESPN to do "The Decision", and ever since, it's been all LeBron, all the time. Sleep in the bed you made.

[thepostman]

And for the record I don't give a rip about the Not Basketball Association.

please explain why? I know this is the common opinion on this board, but I don't get it...some teams are boring, but the nba has a whole has become much more entertaining the last 5 years or so

Well for me, the NBA is all about the individual. On the court, and off, it's all about individual athletic ability, and not the team concept. The NBA relies less on basketball skills, and more on pure athleticism. The great college teams are made up of players with different skill sets, sizes, etc, and they play with intensity and passion as a team to win games. I just don't see that in the NBA. The breakdown of fundamentals is appalling, and the rules are offensive to basketball purists. It shares almost nothing with the college game, which is one of the greatest sports in the world. There is a definite perception among many (myself included), that the players don't show much effort the majority of the time. They stand around on defense, etc. There's also a lack of relatable players to your average white male sports consumer in this country. It's not that white guys can't or won't cheer for black guys, but they still look for players they can relate to. In the NBA, most white players are from Europe, and are not particularly relatable.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I wanted to answer with a few thoughts on why so many people have a distaste for the NBA.

I disagree simply because I think it is the media that focuses on the individual but the best teams in the league are very much team oriented which is why until Miami learns to be about team and not self they will not succeed. The college game is great but traditional fundmental basketball is not much more common in the college game then it is in the nba.

As far as the comment about relateable white males I just don't even know where to start...I didn't know race had anything to do with being able to relate to somebody...again stop watching espn and simply watch the game without a bias and I think you would see a decent product...

I will never agree with anybody that says the college game is better then the nba, these are the best players in the world and the best teams in the league are very team oriented. Yes the Lakers have Kobe, but without him being able to buy into the team game they would be nothing... Boston is a very team oriented team and so is Orlando, San Antonio, Utah, Dallas, the Hornets and the list goes on an on...the top teams are team oriented and to say they are individualistic is simply not true and shows true ignorance to the nba game in general and buying into what commentators tell you...

I love basketball and always have. I love the college game and I love the nba game. Yes they are a bit different but at the core its the same thing.

I know this thread has been completely hijacked but I think there is some context here, the way the media covers the LeBrons, Wades, and Kobe's of the world is the reason why people feel the way they do about the nba being a me sport...yes the players want to get paid more and more all the time, but its the same story in football and baseball (if not worse) but because of the nature of the game of basketball it is very easy to talk about certain individuals...but if you look at the teams that have won the nba championship they are very much about team...AND DEFENSE!

sorry for the rant but every basketball season I hear this same stuff and every season I am just more and more baffeled by it...I understand liking college sports more for the simple fact that they, kind of, are doing it for the love of the game...but to say the NBA is "me" oriented is simply inaccurate

[thepostman]

Post, start a thread on this. I have more thoughts and we can discuss this more.

that was probably my longest post I have ever posted, if you want a separate thread or want to talk more feel free to start a thread or PM me. I don't know if I could add anymore to be honest, haha

[RubberMallet]

And for the record I don't give a rip about the Not Basketball Association.

please explain why? I know this is the common opinion on this board, but I don't get it...some teams are boring, but the nba has a whole has become much more entertaining the last 5 years or so

Well for me, the NBA is all about the individual. On the court, and off, it's all about individual athletic ability, and not the team concept. The NBA relies less on basketball skills, and more on pure athleticism. The great college teams are made up of players with different skill sets, sizes, etc, and they play with intensity and passion as a team to win games. I just don't see that in the NBA. The breakdown of fundamentals is appalling, and the rules are offensive to basketball purists. It shares almost nothing with the college game, which is one of the greatest sports in the world. There is a definite perception among many (myself included), that the players don't show much effort the majority of the time. They stand around on defense, etc. There's also a lack of relatable players to your average white male sports consumer in this country. It's not that white guys can't or won't cheer for black guys, but they still look for players they can relate to. In the NBA, most white players are from Europe, and are not particularly relatable.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I wanted to answer with a few thoughts on why so many people have a distaste for the NBA.

yeah you aren't watching the nba right now apparently.

[LUconn]

I don't enjoy it one bit, but I think it's mainly because I don't have any team that I care about. And that makes it boring. I follow some of my favorite college players when they get to the NBA but that's about it. There's also way too many regular season games and I don't like playoffs with a series.