[Purple Haize]

News flash scorchy. We don't play in FBS. There are no undefeated teams and only one 1-loss team (Bethune-Cookman) in the FCS playoffs. Jenkin's point is perfectly valid.

No it isnt. It is based on achievement without victory. I did not say UNDEFEATED, I said VICTORY. When we have those against quality teams than we can move onto move achievements

[jenkins]

Completely disagree..I never said we should not have won those games. Just because we lost doesn't mean we should be out of the playoffs. You compare the performances of all the teams and those with the best performance should get in. Clearly we should have won several of the games we have lost over the years...just look at Boise friday night..it happens all the time. I've said it before and will say it again. Outside of the top 5 or 6 teams in the FCS this year, nobody made a HUGE case to be put it in. That is why the there is such scrutiny. I personally believe there were 2 teams let in ahead of us that did not deserve to be there over us, that doesn't mean i dont believe we should not have won the games we lost. I just think your going down the wrong path if you just eliminate a team because they lost a game you think they should have won. It will happen today in the NFL, it happend plenty yesterday in college football. when you get to the end of the season you stack everything up see how it lies. I believe beating Ball State and trouncing Stony Brook all the while being 4 time co-champions of a conference i believe to be much stronger than the MEAC is more impressive that SC State. Again, of cousre we make it crystal clear if we win one more of those games we lose this year. Just a difference of opinion, you guys are entitled to yours as well.

[jenkins]

purple haize....it is not based on acheivement without victory. Read it again. It's based on the fact that 2 teams let in ahead of us results were worse. If we went 6-5 but everyone else went 3-8 should we still not get in??? It's comparative to what everyone else does my friend. This particular year there were not that many impressive teams.

[vtechhokies20]

Two options: You win outright what is viewed as a weak football 7 team conference or put some creditable opponents on the schedule and win. We have not done either. We publicize the so called co conference championships yet in the past two years we have lost to the team that won the league.

No doubt we have made real progress on the field, No doubt our $$$ is tops in the FCS, No doubt we now have an automatic bid, no doubt our schedule has been soft, No Doubt Coastal and RMU got beat yesterday. Rocco has the facilities, $$$ and has had the time to build a playoff quality program and I would think he needs to get that done in the near future.

My simple suggestion is to play a schedule that if you go 8-3 with one conference lost also gives you a real chance at an automatic bid not just an false hope. Earn the automatic bid by winning and everyone's opinion is mute.

[olldflame]

While that would appear to make sense "hokie", the recent track record of the comittee says you are better off scheduling a weak non-conference schedule and getting the Ws, no matter who they are against. If we had scheduled 2 FCS patsies instead of RMU and JMU, we finish 10-1 and we are in. See SC State. While we may have had that in mind when we put RMU on the schedule, clearly we were wrong.

In 20/20 hindsite now that the first round of the playoffs is done, any thoughts that we could have done much damage had we gotten in were probably delusional. The 2 playoff teams we lost to went down. While the beach chickens looked like they had as good or better talent than WIU, they choked, and Robbie Mo was pretty much outmatched as NDSU wore them down in the second half.

[Chris Lang]

Don't forget, too, that the Robert Morris game was scheduled to be a home game this year. As Rocco pointed out to me in the postmortem interview, the new press tower might be great for the program long-term, but it wasn't so great for the 2010 Flames. Liberty wouldn't have lost that game at home.

[El Scorcho]

News flash scorchy. We don't play in FBS. There are no undefeated teams and only one 1-loss team (Bethune-Cookman) in the FCS playoffs. Jenkin's point is perfectly valid.

No it wasn't. When he threw "ever" on the end of his statement, he set himself up. There are plenty of teams that win all of the games that they SHOULD win. There are, during the course of a season, competitive games with more even odds. Those are not games we SHOULD win. The JMU game looked that way going in and normally I would say that was an acceptable loss. (Except I was there. We should have won.) Even so, I made it clear we could have had a two loss season and been fine. We did not do that. You can't lose two (or three, as the case may be made) of the games you're expected to win.

We can't lose and expect to go to the playoffs. Especially not in conference.

I stand by that statement. In conference we cannot lose and expect to go to the playoffs, especially now that we have the auto-bid.

Just because we lost doesn't mean we should be out of the playoffs.

Actually, that's exactly what it means. Losers don't go to the playoffs. Again, we had the opportunity to force the committee's hand. We did not. We don't get to complain about something that is completely at their discretion. This board was full of griping last year and the year before that because of the same logic. I probably even did some of it. I feel differently now. No excuses. Win or stay home.

Two options: You win outright what is viewed as a weak football 7 team conference or put some creditable opponents on the schedule and win. We have not done either. We publicize the so called co conference championships yet in the past two years we have lost to the team that won the league.

Yes. Exactly. We had a clear path to get a ticket to the dance. We failed to punch that ticket and there's no excuse for that. Complaining that we didn't get asked when we didn't do what we should have to take ourselves is just lame.

If we had scheduled 2 FCS patsies instead of RMU and JMU, we finish 10-1 and we are in.

Or we could go 6-5, win the football powerhouse Big South conference and still be in.

I think it's funny that I'm being chastised for expecting our team to win more and whine less. If this program is what we say it is around here sometimes, we should be dominating the Big South. The fact that we're not tells me that we're not ready for the playoffs and the committee probably got it right by not inviting us.

[olldflame]

You get in for winning the autobid if you are 11-0 too. The bottom line is strength of schedule apparently has no upside with the current selection process. Why would you want to put yourself in a position where you lose a couple of really tough non-conference games and can only get in with the autobid, and you are at the mercy of some lame tiebreaker if you lose one conference game? I wish it were not true because I would like to see us play better teams, but right now it is not smart to have a tough schedule.

[El Scorcho]

no team wins every game that they should win in any sport ever.

2006 Appalachian State Mountaineers. 14-1. Won every game they were expected to win.

2003 Delaware Blue Hens. 15-1. Won every game they were expected to win.

2009 Villanova Wildcats. 14-1. Won every game they were expected to win.

I'm too lazy to get more, but I'm sure I could. Those three teams all had one loss, but each one of them was in a game that had pretty even odds or was heavily favored to the opponent. Those three teams also had another common trait.

I don't want to hear griping about our 8-3 team being on the outside looking in. If we want to be in, we need to earn it. We need to play for championships. The outright kind.

[olldflame]

You cherry-pick a few teams over a period of 7 years and that is supposed to prove your point? 20 teams were in the playoffs this year. Only one, Bethune Cookman, had less than 2 losses, and they are probably one of the weakest teams in the field.

FACT: This year and every year teams get in and are left out who have lost games they should have won. They are compared to each other, not to the 2003 Blue Hens.

[El Scorcho]

You cherry-pick a few teams over a period of 7 years and that is supposed to prove your point? 20 teams were in the playoffs this year. Only one, Bethune Cookman, had less than 2 losses, and they are probably one of the weakest teams in the field.

FACT: This year and every year teams get in and are left out who have lost games they should have won. They are compared to each other, not to the 2003 Blue Hens.

He made an absolute statement and I proved him wrong. He said no team EVER wins every game that they should win. In any sport. It would only be a cherry picking fallacy if he hadn't made an absolute statement. I picked those three teams for a reason. They were all championship teams. I was trying to set the bar high.

Even so, you're ignoring my main point which is that if we cannot win the Big South outright, we have no business complaining. It wouldn't have even mattered if we scheduled cupcakes this year. We did not win the Big South. If we can't do that, we're not getting in. For all of the smack we talk about the Big South, Stony Brook has owned it just as much as we have over the last two seasons.

We are not getting an at-large bid out of the Big South. Ever. Our conference stinks and we can't even dominate it.

[BJWilliams]

You guys think you could agree to disagree because all youre doing is digging your own trenches deeper and deeper...I mean healthy discussion and disagreement is fine but this really hasnt gone anywhere and its been going on for almost a week now between you two

[thepostman]

because BJ people need to be consistent..this board as a whole talks about how horrible the big south is and then they become so angry when the committee doesn't take 2 teams from a conference that we all agree is horrible...that is terrible logic and the only reason people feel that way is because they are fans of liberty...

[olldflame]

I'm not sure which "2" you are referring to BJ, since about 20 people have expressed opinions on this thread.

The BSC is not a good conference, but it is not the worst in FCS either. The idea that the MEAC is worthy of 2 teams and the Big South is not and never will be is ridiculous.

I have to admit I am perplexed at times by the level of self-loathing among some members of this board.

[BJWilliams]

Im more focusing on you and our fearless admin leader El Scorcho olldflame

[jbock13]

Bottom line, we should have been in over South Carolina State, Georgia Southern, and North Dakota State.

Enough said of this.

[olldflame]

I figured that's what you meant, but that was just a few posts back and forth in the last day or so. BTW, this thread was only started 3 days ago.

[jbock13]

What makes me ticked off even more is the argument I've heard from some on here, such as, "I'm glad we didn't make it to the playoffs because, either we didn't deserve it, or, we would have gotten killed".

Really??? How insane. I'm not saying we could beat App. State, but at the same time, isn't it at least worth a try???

[Schfourteenteen]

because BJ people need to be consistent..this board as a whole talks about how horrible the big south is and then they become so angry when the committee doesn't take 2 teams from a conference that we all agree is horrible...that is terrible logic and the only reason people feel that way is because they are fans of liberty...

Terrible logic should be the underscore for FlameFans.com

[kuntryboimike]

What makes me ticked off even more is the argument I've heard from some on here, such as, "I'm glad we didn't make it to the playoffs because, either we didn't deserve it, or, we would have gotten killed".

Really??? How insane. I'm not saying we could beat App. State, but at the same time, isn't it at least worth a try???

I've said from day 1 I'd love nothing more than to see Appy and LU go at it! And I still hold to it. What makes ME so angry is the night before the selection show I had a dream we were hosting W Illinois!!!! I kid you not!!!! CCU ended up hosting them and now W Ill is going to App. Liberty should have been in that spot. And I'd be in NC this coming saturday. Lets just get a home and home with them

[jbock13]

What makes me ticked off even more is the argument I've heard from some on here, such as, "I'm glad we didn't make it to the playoffs because, either we didn't deserve it, or, we would have gotten killed".

Really??? How insane. I'm not saying we could beat App. State, but at the same time, isn't it at least worth a try???

I've said from day 1 I'd love nothing more than to see Appy and LU go at it! And I still hold to it. What makes ME so angry is the night before the selection show I had a dream we were hosting W Illinois!!!! I kid you not!!!! CCU ended up hosting them and now W Ill is going to App. Liberty should have been in that spot. And I'd be in NC this coming saturday. Lets just get a home and home with them

Perhaps what's more funny is I took the weekend off from work because I thought LU would be playing either Appy. State, Delware, or William and Mary

[ToTheLeft]

The MEAC is not a 2 bid league. SCSU's performance pretty much proved that. CCU played GSU much better than SCSU did. We could have, as well.

The last couple spots were down to really bad teams compared to the first couple in. The 9 and 10 spots were very weak. We didn't earn "lock" status, but we did at least earn the right to get in ahead of a team like SCSU, who did nothing in a conference that did nothing. We did a little bit in a conference that did a little bit, and that should have meant something.

We didn't do what we needed to do to earn a trip. But we did enough to be better than SCSU. Which is/was my beef. I'd be okay with JU or Dayton getting in ahead of us, they won games. I'd be okay with JMU or UMass or Montana, they play in better conferences and beat better teams.

[bigsmooth]

agreed with TTL on the MEAC. disagree on being ok with JU or dayton getting a bid. JU's biggest win was over ODU who is still a young program playing not the greatest schedule, JU struggled to beat campbell, and got whipped by appy. Dayton maybe, only because they beat bobby mo. how about the other big south programs raise the bar a bit and help the league?? that would help.

[jenkins]

We belonged in over those last 2 teams that we have discussed. That is the bottom line

[Purple Haize]

For all of those who think the MEAC is not a two team league, or that we are here is the link for the people who do this type of ranking for a living. I already laid out the case for NDSU so feel free to go back and check it out. I am not going to do the same for every team. But a few pointers. Yes, the MEAC is a higher ranked conference then the Big South. Yes the Big South IS the worse conference in the FCS.
Make sure you look at the ARROWS they tell you how many positions up or down the teams have moved. The MEAC did not fair very well, but is still rated higher then the BSC.

http://realtimerpi.com/football/ncaaf_conf_Men.html