[Th3rd]

But we are not Alabama yet. We are still climbing the ladder. Patience grasshopper.

I don't think anyone believes we are Alabama. Yes we all aspire to get to be one of the great schools, but no one currently believes we have made it... I think the biggest thing is that we all get sold on the hype (by coaches, polls, and the like) and then it seems like every year we have a huge letdown... Maybe we thought it would be different this year since we should have gotten the auto-bid... but like the past years we have another letdown... i guess it should be expected now... I mean those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it right?? So maybe next year the football team will actually have a wake up call and realize that no game is a cupcake and that if you cant just be expected to be handed the auto-bid... if not then I agree... something needs to change, big time!

Starting with the Defense and then if that doesn't work I think we need to seriously consider if we can do better than Rocco... I mean c'mon the defense is horrible... I mean I can't tell you how many times I have seen a opposing player break an arm tackle for a big play... And if it were just one time I would chalk it up to a bad play by the player... but its not just one time... for some reason our D is taught to arm tackle... or not hit correctly... or if they are taught to hit correctly they don't show it on the field, but yet are left in the game even after they make that mistake... this should not happen ever!

sorry guess that is just me venting...

yes I STILL support Liberty... yes I still know Rocco is the coach... that doesn't mean that I have to blindly support every decision made on the field by him.... or any other coach for that matter... as Herb Brooks said in the movie Miracle "And the name on the front is a heck of alot more important than the one on the back!" No matter if its player or coach, if they do not perform up to the level of excellence expected by the A.D. or by the University then I think people should ask questions and seriously consider if they still belong here... And 8-3 and CO-champions is not the standard... As stated before Liberty is head and shoulders above the Big South competition in facilities and money... and yet that doesn't translate to the field....

Should we just chalk that up to any given Saturday??

[jimflamesfan]

I've been going to games since the last 3 years of the Rutugliano era, through the Karcher era, and now in the Rocco era.

I do believe the Rocco era has been the best coach for LU football that I've seen. Sam R.'s schedules almost always included at least two division 2 schools. One year we actually played at Virginia Union away...in other words...a road game traveling to a division 2 school.

Karcher took the approach that many are suggesting...schedule the toughest games you can...and you end up playing Youngstown State, Toledo, and JMU at the beginning of the year and get crushed in all three and then we were demoralized for the rest of the season.

We now lose to W&M in overtime...instead of it being 63-3 or the likes.

But I'm not a big fan of scheduling up if the other team won't give us home and homes. We have a conference and an auto-bid now...we don't need to kiss up to anyone to get them to play us. We should try to get home and homes...I'd love to keep playing JMU...and add ODU and Richmond...but if they don't want to play, we can't make 'em.

However, I'm still for competitive games...but if it comes between a Patriot league team that will give us a home and home, and some stuck up CAA team that wants two road games and a home...get a competitive game against a team that will do home and homes.

I mean, you can still schedule competitive games against the stronger teams of weaker confernces - and I'd bet they'd give us home and homes.

I'd rather see the Layfayette series continue...don't we still owe a return game to Lehigh? I bet Hampton from the MEAC would give us a home and home...the MEAC isn''t very good overall...but Hampton is a solid.

In fact, if you're talking about Rocco being the coach to transition us to 1-a...I think it's really close to happening, and he's actually doing the job...despite the agonizing losses.

Think about Liberty and the MAC...we already have wins against Ball State, Buffalo, and Eastern Michigan in our history...and a close game against Toledo...and that's with a fewer # of scholarships.

Before Rocco came...we played games at Toledo and Bowling Green and lost by 40 plus each time.

Post Rocco...we've won one MAC game...and lost another by less than a touchdown.

I think Rocco is doing what he came here to do...preparing us for 1-A. It might not happen as fast as we like...but seriously...I think we've made progress.

We were worried about finding a way to manufacture 15,000 at a game before Rocco. Now we're upset when the crowd is less than 19,000.

As far as changes...I think Streeter is excellent. But do we have a running backs coach? I think Sundheim is both a recruiting coordinator and a running backs coach. I wish they could shuffle things around somehow and hire a running backs coach.

Our pass defense over the middle does need work. So if they want to make some changes there or put people on a short leash...that's up to the coaches to figure out.

I'm still supportive of Rocco, and I'm excited to see what happens on Saturday.

[LUconn]

As far as changes...I think Streeter is excellent. But do we have a running backs coach? I think Sundheim is both a recruiting coordinator and a running backs coach. I wish they could shuffle things around somehow and hire a running backs coach.

Our pass defense over the middle does need work. So if they want to make some changes there or put people on a short leash...that's up to the coaches to figure out.

I'm still supportive of Rocco, and I'm excited to see what happens on Saturday.

not to mention this is Streeter's 2nd year. Last year's offense was phenomenal. This year's is somewhat one dimensional but I think that's due to personnel and trying to hide those huge flaws.

[From the class of 09]

As far as scheduling goes, I feel like Barber has jumped the gun a little. We aren't there yet, we don't have the power or prestige to demand home-and-home series with just anyone. I think if you believe you are the best you have to be willing to prove it. Take Boise State. They very much take an "any place any time" approach, and it has paid dividends. FSU did the same back in the day, and it paid off. I think, being that we are a relative newcomer to FCS success, that we need to have the same attitude.

I'm not sure about the past but Boise simply doesn't take anytime any place any more (I know this has been thrown around a lot). But Nebraska has tried to schedule them in the past and they couldn't work it out.

In the past year, NU tried to put together a series with BSU; two-for-one, home-and-home, one-way trip to Lincoln. Whatever. It ended up fizzling out. Why?

Because, according to NU Assistant Athletic Director Jeff Jamrog, Boise wanted a minimum $1 million to play in Lincoln.

Geez, no wonder the Broncos can’t get anyone to play them. Pay Boise State $1 million to come to your town? Sorry, don’t want it that bad.

http://omaha.com/article/20100908/SPORTS/709089803/0

So yes they will play you as long as the check clears... not saying it's wrong just that the statement "any place any time" is a little misleading.

[From the class of 09]

Fair enough 09...that wasn't really my overall point. The point is, the strategy has worked for teams better than ours. Florida State and Miami both did it to build their programs.

To an extent. With the current set up I'm not in favor of having more away games then is necessary. Sure we need to play some away games but to travel to App without getting a return game doesn't do much for us especially if you don't win. In a perfect world out of our 5 non-conference I'd like to have 3 at home each year. I'd rather have that extra home game now that we have a conference auto bid. But that's just my opinion.

[SumItUp]

Miami & Florida State were both Independents when they took that approach. Liberty did the same throughout the Rutigliano era. We have a conference affiliation and a great stadium. It's time to pursue home/home opportunities. If we travel without a return visit, it needs to be a money game.

[lufan11]

As far as changes...I think Streeter is excellent. But do we have a running backs coach? I think Sundheim is both a recruiting coordinator and a running backs coach. I wish they could shuffle things around somehow and hire a running backs coach.

Our pass defense over the middle does need work. So if they want to make some changes there or put people on a short leash...that's up to the coaches to figure out.

I'm still supportive of Rocco, and I'm excited to see what happens on Saturday.

not to mention this is Streeter's 2nd year. Last year's offense was phenomenal. This year's is somewhat one dimensional but I think that's due to personnel and trying to hide those huge flaws.

We don't have Jennings and so change up the offense, take Chase Barnett, he is not your typical I RB but would excel as a wingback. Get him in space and design plays for him. Create the offense that showcases the players talent on the team. As for Mr. Barber, I like how he thinks .

[From the class of 09]

Well, then we need to accept the fact that we are going to have a lot more Savannah States than App States...

Also true

[olldflame]

Miami & Florida State were both Independents when they took that approach. Liberty did the same throughout the Rutigliano era. We have a conference affiliation and a great stadium. It's time to pursue home/home opportunities. If we travel without a return visit, it needs to be a money game.

I don't normally do this but.........+1

[SuperJon]

We don't have Jennings and so change up the offense, take Chase Barnett, he is not your typical I RB but would excel as a wingback. Get him in space and design plays for him. Create the offense that showcases the players talent on the team.

That's where my question about philosophies on offense came from. It feels like Streeter wants to call a spread game, and that's his background (look where he played in college) but there’s still some of Rocco’s wanting to be a power team sprinkled in. You hear Streeter say we want to run the ball, but you hear Rocco say “we want to be smashmouth, that’s what we’re built on, that’s who we are.” It feels like there's a tension there between the two. Tension isn't always bad, but it's something to look at going forward. We have a great head coach, and we have an offensive coordinator that is ridiculously smart and is going to be great one day. We just have to make sure both are on the same page.

[LUconn]

Well we better be a spread team on Saturday if we want to score what we need to.

[BJWilliams]

I think we could very well run a blur type offense like Oregon runs. Mike Brown would be our Darron Thomas (sp? on the first name), Chris Summers could be our Jeff Maehl (with a few extra inches in height), all that we are missing is a LaMichael James type running back. AA could have been that, maybe somebody like John Carter could be that way, but I think that if somebody can step up and become that kind of back we could break quite a few scoreboards (as if we dont do that already) next year and we can work on the issues with the pass defense.

[jenkins]

One way of looking at things that i think we have forgotten about (myself included) is that pre-Rocco we didn't win the big south. We are the favorite every year now. Pre-Rocco we lost 48-3 to JMU, got crushed by WMU...got destroyed by Bowling Green. Since Rocco were 1 and 1 against the MAC with a 1 pt loss. We have been right with JMU and W&M. The results may not be where we would like them against the big dogs but the more you think about it (bigger budget and nicer facilities or not) we are definetely moving...I just hope were not stalled at this particular level like i said the other day. I think the main problem is still the 3-4...when we have played in the 4-3 we have been much better..(see most of JMU game, Ball State, 2nd half Coastal). Our talent is clearly good enough to beat most of the teams on our schedule, but when we play quality opposition the 3-4 gets exposed. There are only a handful of teams in the nation in pro and college football that can run the 3-4 effectively. Hopefully DR can take a thing or two from Al Groh's failed tenure at UVA and his 3-4 failures. If not, look at GT this year, their defense has turned to garbage with the installation of the 3-4. Switch to the 4-3 and find a power pack (i.e Keith Payne that was supposed to transfer here) and we are fine. Will it happen probably not.

[Stevev]

That is a good way of looking at things. Another guy who could have helped us this year was J Courtney Williams. They say that he has some amazing talent.

[LUconn]

I'm not sure if everyone knows this, or that it matters, but there was no Big South football to win before 2002.

[jenkins]

i didnt knwo the exact year but i knew it was aroudn that time. I would have guessed 2000. The point still holds true..we didn't compete for the conference title pre-Rocco, albeit for just 3 or 4 years.

[Purple Haize]

What a long and interesting thread. Since everyone else, I guess I will throw in my .02!
- No one has made a big deal about the yearly rumors swirling around DR's departure to everywhere from E Carolina to UVA. That HAS to wear on recruits and players. " If he isn't here 100% why should I be?" While it may not be that obvious, it may be something to consider.
- Our schedule, as has been pointed out hasnt been exactly a tough one. If people look objectively at past threads, especially come play off time, it seems we are talking about teams we "Almost" beat, and teams we lost to then we are teams we actually beat.
- In the same vien, LU Football, like MBB and to some extent WBB are looking for the "Signature" win. It must be something in the water
- You can't compare turing a BB program around to turning a FB program around. One great player can do wonders for a BB team, but not necessarily for a FB team
- Say what you will about the Karcher era, but we had some GREAT running backs
- I don't know one single coach who could win the big one, until they actually won the big one. Same with players. I could list them (Bob Stoops, Peyton Manning, John Elway, Brett Favre, Jon Gruden, Bill Cowher) but I wont
- I actually do have a good grasp on what the budget is and here is my conclusion: We have too much money wrapped up in Rocco and the FB at this point NOT to succeed. We outspend every other BSC school in just about every sport. We should win and give our coaches every chance to do so. DR has gotten us to aspot, now we need to let him take us to the next level. Or fail in the attempt.
- Finally, there is an old saying : There are lies, dang lies and then statistics. Meaning you can make numbers say anything you want them to say.

[badger74]

Whew, tough crowd. My college's team has had many ups and downs over the years and I am certain of one thing--the head coach is very important to success. Now while thing at LU are pretty good facility wise etc that is also very recent and the fruits in recruiting of those improvements will be more in the future than this year. Also the overall LU campus is still very much a work in progress and does not compare that well to older more mature ones Ihave seen--and I have seen lots. LU is not going to be that easy a place to recruit for a number of other reasons I need not elaborate--it's not for everyone would be a fair statement.
Now I do think the issue of assistant coaches being the right guys is possibly on the mark. I don't think you really want to replace the HC. He has a good enough resume to get the benefit of the doubt until he has some real losing seasons. I have seen assistant coaches changes out with an improvement coming within a year or two. The HC needs to take a hard look at all his guys and decide if any need to be upgraded. This is often needed after a staff has been around 4 or 5 years. Not all the guys hired at the beginning work out. Even guys that had success in the past just lose something over the years. Also very asssitant needs to be a good recruiter. You can't afford any weak links. It took Wisconsin's HC 5 years to get his staff right and at least one DC and several other assistants were replaced to good effect. If an area seems most weak look at the assistant coach in charge of that area and ask if he's the best you can do. Far less disruptive than trying to bring in a new HC to replace one that seems pretty good but maybe needs a little boost to get to the next level. And if the Badgers lose their last 2 games I reserve the right to forget everything I just said and call for the HC to be flogged if not fired.

[ATrain]

- Say what you will about the Karcher era, but we had some GREAT running backs

And some ugly games. We were scoreless from the end of the 3rd quarter against D-II Concord until the second half against VMI. During that time, we lost to UConn 59-0, Youngstown State 49-0 at home, and at W&M 56-0.

However, Samkon Gado the season before was a great running back.

[Cider Jim]

Bury, that's what Karcher thought, too--until Gado signed with the Packers.

[jack_sparrow81]

We had 3 great runningbacks but no offensive line whatsover. By the time the ball was hike, the defense would be down Gus' & Kyle's throat. Dre Barnes was incredible player and could have played at any FBS school, but he lacked the size for the NFL. Eugene was a another great back and played some (and possibly still) in that leauge below the NFL. We had a great TE that year as well-(Josh forgot his last name). Our O-line and the schedule hurt that year. I remember one year we had to play USF & UCF in back to back games

[Liberty4Life]

We had three great running backs, and, unfortunately, a coach that didn't know how to use them. Karcher loved that single-back formation almost as he loved trotting out noodle-armed QBs who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

[TDDance234]

Gado was actually one of the more pedestrian backs we had during that era. Dre Barnes was sooo much better, and Eugene Goodman was a great change up for him.

No, Gado was pretty darn good. But what's been mentioned here already -- Dre Barnes as unreal and Eugene Goodman was a very good back as well. There really wasn't a difference in their skill level.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Gado made it in the NFL because he had the body for the NFL. I would say that on an over skill level Dre was better than Samkon but didn't have the size. He had one of the most amazing first steps I've ever seen. His burst and moves were unreal. Unfortunately we didn't see enough of eugene because of his injuries, but man was he fast.

[olldflame]

I remember that VMI comeback vividly as well, and if I recall Eugene made a number of big runs along with Dre. I don't remember ever seeing a team score so many points so quickly without passing. If it had been NFL rules the game would have been over, but we were ripping off over 10 yards on every play, so the clock stopped to move the chains. It was fun to watch for sure.

In addition to his lack of size, Dre's NFL chances were hurt by a slow 40 time. We all know he had great quickness as well as amazing balance and surprizing strength, but especially for a little guy, a less than stellar 40 can kill a pro career before it starts. Sam has good size and straight ahead speed, but I agree he should not have played ahead of either Eugene or Dre.