[From the class of 09]

Lot's of players with offers from FBS schools come to FCS schools. That's how FCS schools keep winning games against the FBS. The talent pool is being spread out more, b/c players realize they can go FCS and play almost right away rather than sit and watch for 2 or 3 years. FBS is deeper, but more and more, the starters in FCS are on point with FBS.

So yes, we are DEFINITELY competing for talent with VT and UVA.

By offer you mean full ride scholy right? not a walk on offer?

yes. I do.

Like who?

[dwhite]

Like my friend Nick, I didn't read all of the posts, but I'll say this:

When I arrived in Lynchburg (Fall 2004) we were lucky to get half of the student side filled up. I think the "Baptist" side was worse. We were getting throttled too. Ugly uniforms, ugly field, sub-par facilities and very, very little buy-in.

Several of us decided that even though things weren't ideal, we were going to stick with our school.

We showed up at every home game, and even several away games. We made signs, flags, shirts and anything else we could afford. We were at pep-rallies before it was cool, and tailgated when we were the only students out there.

As things begin to change within the program (Rocco, Barber, etc) the atmosphere outside the program also improved. Slowly but surely, more and more students started showing up early. More and more begin tailgating. More and more begin wearing red and staying for the whole game.

Fast forward to today.

I know that none of us would say we're where we could be, but in the last few years we've really come a long, long way. I believe it's just going to take a little more time and a little more patience. Nick, keep doing what you're doing. People will see it, and eventually they'll get it. Sometimes it just takes them a little longer then it takes you...and that's okay - you have the comfort of knowing you were apart of the change.

Go Flames!

DW

[JMUDukeDawg]

If GJ has a full ride offer from VT and chooses to come to LU he will one of the first. Transfering from a BCS school and coming to LU is totally different situation.

Lot's of players with offers from FBS schools come to FCS schools. That's how FCS schools keep winning games against the FBS. The talent pool is being spread out more, b/c players realize they can go FCS and play almost right away rather than sit and watch for 2 or 3 years. FBS is deeper, but more and more, the starters in FCS are on point with FBS.

So yes, we are DEFINITELY competing for talent with VT and UVA.

[/quote]

I'll chime in with a non-LU opinion. Only one player on the team we took to Blacksburg visited Va. Tech in recruiting (Peter Rose, who committed to Tech before his, ahem, incident). Nobody else did.

Any players that the Virginia FCS schools are competing with Tech and UVa to get are probably position related issues. For instance, JMU recruited Scotty McGee as a RB, he was offered a scholarship at UT to play DB, and he picked JMU so he could play RB (ironically, JMU moved him to DB, but you get the point). The FCS schools simply are not competing with Tech and UVa for talent head to head.

[Chippy]

Pretty, are you saying Grant Jones is not committed to LU? I haven't seen anything to say he has decommitted. I know it was only verbal but he would have been an asset to our O line for years. Get another GJ type and a premier running back and we're that much closer to a championship quality team.

[R i]

The vision of this place is far bigger - national championships in all sports, football with a national following,

When we contend for a National Title at the FCS level, I will agree. Lets make the playoffs before we ask the students here to be as committed as some of us.

I do not feel we compete with UVA and TECH. Lets compete with JMU and Richmond on the recruiting front first. Which we have started to do slightly.

[jimflamesfan]

As far as having someone like Skillet come in...Tait did his concert during halftime from that strange stage in the endzone. And it just seemed too far away for anyone to get excited.

I would think if you did it again you would have to do it facing the homeside. But that presents another problem...the students would then flood the homeside before the game was over before seeing the band.

Also, if we want to get people from the community comming that don't normally come, how about a band like Diamond Rio?

Furthermore, again, I think we're missing a GOLDEN oppertuniy to have Sparky appear at churches VBS in the summer. You could give away some kind of small LU frisbees or something in exchange for being able to promote the flames kids club for the upcomming year. In this economy, access for kids under 12 for all athletic events for $25. How can you beat that. Get the Sparky out to the VBS's...almost like how Spirit FM does the VBS express.

[logic]

I'm not talking FCS national titles, I'm talking beating XYZ school for a BCS national title. That is the goal here, a top 25 athletics program as a whole with football leading the way. Forget football for a second - everyone supporting VT also then runs into a direct conflict with LU's 19 other varsity sports, which do not compete in a separate sub division. Take women's basketball for example, we want to win a national title and we've been as far as the sweet 16. If you're supporting another Division I school that LU is recruiting against in any of our other sports you're in direct conflict with our goals. Football may not be competing directly with other FBS schools yet, but our other sports certainly are.

Appalling that LIBERTY STUDENTS would dare show up at a soccer game against UNC wearing Carolina blue. A direct slap in the face to the vision, the dreams, and the goals of everyone that has worked so hard over the past 40 years to get us to where we are today.

[kuntryboimike]

I'm not talking FCS national titles, I'm talking beating XYZ school for a BCS national title. That is the goal here, a top 25 athletics program as a whole with football leading the way. Forget football for a second - everyone supporting VT also then runs into a direct conflict with LU's 19 other varsity sports, which do not compete in a separate sub division. Take women's basketball for example, we want to win a national title and we've been as far as the sweet 16. If you're supporting another Division I school that LU is recruiting against in any of our other sports you're in direct conflict with our goals. Football may not be competing directly with other FBS schools yet, but our other sports certainly are.

Appalling that LIBERTY STUDENTS would dare show up at a soccer game against UNC wearing Carolina blue. A direct slap in the face to the vision, the dreams, and the goals of everyone that has worked so hard over the past 40 years to get us to where we are today.

I agree 100%. I don't go to convo so I wouldn't know....But I really hope these things are being brought up there mwf....It's an issue and it wont be fixed unless students know it's an issue. THEN we got to get them to care.....

[dakotafalcon4]

I don’t post too much on this board, but I do like to check it out every once in a while.

I think it is very hard to look at all of this objectively.

I agree with my brother Dwhite as while we were in undergrad we tailgated and such before it was even the thing to do at LU. Both of us come from different fan bases that we grew up with. My family vacations growing up were trips to the Orange and Sugar Bowls to watch Virginia Tech. My Saturdays as a young kid were spent on the campus of VT.

I chose to attend LU because I am Chaplain in the Army. The educational track that i desired was not offered at VT, but was offered at LU and the LU seminary. When I was here my frosh year I was so confused as to why students here at LU didn’t care\go to games. To me it was football and we should be knee deep in it.

Over the years it has been amazing to see LU transform, and when I got to see the inside of the new Williams Stadium it was awesome.

I think some of you just take this all too seriously. I have friends who live in the same scenario. Everyone in Ohio is an Ohio State fan, but there are many who attend other schools. Youngstown State, Miami, etc etc. everyone is always rooting for OSU to win the national championship, because they all grew up watching and rooting for OSU. There is no line in the sand on what you chose to do. And to be honest, football is a business. LU doesn’t care if I come to a game, they just really care that I am paying the Flames Club and keep helping them build their scholarship fund. VT is the same way, they don’t care if I come or not, they really just care if I keep paying the Hokie Club.

We need to understand that college football is just enjoyment to us, and a business to those involved. Rocco would leave Liberty (and he should) if his alma mater Wake Forrest comes calling after Jim Grobe retires… Rocco has no real tie to the school. He is an employee who does his job.

[Schfourteenteen]

LU doesn’t care if I come to a game, they just really care that I am paying the Flames Club and keep helping them build their scholarship fund.

[dakotafalcon4]

LU doesn’t care if I come to a game, they just really care that I am paying the Flames Club and keep helping them build their scholarship fund.

You shouldn't be shocked..

Big time football = Big time money

[logic]

Falcon you obviously missed the memo about the vision and mission of this place while you were here and quite frankly I am really, really sorry that you feel the way you do. I am not even sure where to begin breaking down your post so I will not bother.

I will say this - football and athletics as a whole are MUCH more than a business here, they are a HUGE tool to reach a light far out into a darkened world.

Imagine football playing live on ESPN on a Saturday night against Alabama in a top 10 match up with millions watching on TV at home. That's worth about 100,000 missions trips give or take a few thousand.

Imagine Herbie saying "Liberty is that Christian school" and Corso putting on the Sparky eagle head on college game day for all to see!!!

[Kolzilla41]

Falcon you obviously missed the memo about the vision and mission of this place while you were here and quite frankly I am really, really sorry that you feel the way you do. I am not even sure where to begin breaking down your post so I will not bother.

I will say this - football and athletics as a whole are MUCH more than a business here, they are a HUGE tool to reach a light far out into a darkened world.

Imagine football playing live on ESPN on a Saturday night against Alabama in a top 10 match up with millions watching on TV at home. That's worth about 100,000 missions trips give or take a few thousand.

Imagine Herbie saying "Liberty is that Christian school" and Corso putting on the Sparky eagle head on college game day for all to see!!!

Unless there is a HUGE miracle, Corso will be dead and Herbstreit will still be talking, with no one listening.....

[dakotafalcon4]

Falcon you obviously missed the memo about the vision and mission of this place while you were here and quite frankly I am really, really sorry that you feel the way you do. I am not even sure where to begin breaking down your post so I will not bother.

I will say this - football and athletics as a whole are MUCH more than a business here, they are a HUGE tool to reach a light far out into a darkened world.

Imagine football playing live on ESPN on a Saturday night against Alabama in a top 10 match up with millions watching on TV at home. That's worth about 100,000 missions trips give or take a few thousand.

Imagine Herbie saying "Liberty is that Christian school" and Corso putting on the Sparky eagle head on college game day for all to see!!!

I understand that Liberty's success on the football field could be a great ministry tool. I hope it is and will be in the future. I'm just saying just as the school has gotten bigger and more profitable, it has become more of a business and not the once "family friendly Christian institution", the football will have to bend also if it has not already.

I know some guys who have played for our team who played at UVA and VT before here, and trust me, they had no care about "LU's" vision.

I'm not cynical, I'm just a realist.

I know some of you are going to jump off the deep end on this, but work with me.

BYU is the LDS mecca of athletics. They have won a national championship and have been at the top of the college football world. They just voted to go independent, and trust me, it wasn't because the institution wanted to broaden its missionary base, its because of the new contracts they signed and the money that will follow.

BYU is just as clean if not more than LU. So yea, its a business.

[FlamesBeBallin]

I myself am worried about the Stony Brook game. Lets face it no students will be there. The baptist side needs to also step it up making some NOISE for this big game, and get off your butts more than once a half.

Sorry Rant [OFF]

[LUnpretty11]

Pretty, are you saying Grant Jones is not committed to LU? ...

That's not what I said at all. I was pointing out that LU is competing with Virginia's best FBS schools for the same talent i.e. GJ. And we got him, which shows (even though we have the major he wanted), that we are competing with the big boys for recruits. ...

...
How did you come to that conclusion

[dakotafalcon4]

The fact that you said BYU is "just as clean" as LU proves to me how little you understand Liberty, our vision, and perhaps Christianity. You've said so many untrue things in your posts on this thread that are offensive to someone that loves the school that I don't know where to begin. I'd rather you send a check every month but not call yourself a fan.

Give me a break..

Notice how I said, "I know some of you are going to jump off the deep end on this, but work with me." I was simply stating that a school that is built around a vision and purpose turned to the cash-cow business of big time football.

And because you will get stuck on small details of what I'm saying instead of the big picture, I do not think LDS are Christians. I was just saying that both schools started at one point in time as a religious institution. BYU, from that had great football success and now it is a big time business.

And without money.. the program doesn't grow..

And P.S. when you send the check, the school sees you as the biggest fan.

[SuperJon]

I myself am worried about the Stony Brook game. Lets face it no students will be there. The baptist side needs to also step it up making some NOISE for this big game, and get off your butts more than once a half.

Sorry Rant [OFF]

We thought the same thing about Elon two years ago. We only had 8000 there but it was the best crowd of the year because it was 8000 people that were there for the game without the 6000 there to be seen.

[Chris Lang]

The Hillcats sort of experienced the same phenomenon last year, Jon. There might be 5,000 there for a Saturday night fireworks game, but there would be no energy in the stadium. Only about 900 showed up for one of the playoff games, but it was as loud as I'd ever heard the place because those 900 were passionate about the baseball, not just there for promotions or fireworks.

[logic]

Falcon -

Not sure where the problem is exactly...we want to win championships in all Division I sports including a BCS national championship in football. Doing so will help fulfill the mission of the university (Last time I checked more "un churched" people watch ESPN than CBN). Doing so also costs money. Can't have championships without great budgets powering the programs and the facilities to go with it.

The goal of LU was never to be a small time place, and if you see big-time football as a business then so be it - I'm not sure exactly why is wrong with pumping money into athletic programs and receiving ticket/tv/donor revenue in return.

All things considered, football is now our national past time and we can really, really reach a lot of people by winning a BCS national title (and also NCAA championships in other sports).

If that takes cash I'm all for it!!!

[From the class of 09]

If that takes cash I'm all for it!!!

Is this really a question...

[dakotafalcon4]

Falcon -

Not sure where the problem is exactly...we want to win championships in all Division I sports including a BCS national championship in football. Doing so will help fulfill the mission of the university (Last time I checked more "un churched" people watch ESPN than CBN). Doing so also costs money. Can't have championships without great budgets powering the programs and the facilities to go with it.

The goal of LU was never to be a small time place, and if you see big-time football as a business then so be it - I'm not sure exactly why is wrong with pumping money into athletic programs and receiving ticket/tv/donor revenue in return.

All things considered, football is now our national past time and we can really, really reach a lot of people by winning a BCS national title (and also NCAA championships in other sports).

If that takes cash I'm all for it!!!

Logic-

I think in the end we are on the same page.

I guess all I got worked up about is the folks who get so upset when you like another school and LU, and how that doesn't make you a fan.

I guess I should also understand that I am talking with college students who have no real life exposure yet, two fun trips to Fallujah will surely change you life perspective.

I get a little bent out of shape when I hear folks say I'm not a fan because I wear my VT gear as well as my LU gear. I gave when I was student when football wasn't even cool at LU. I traveled to Connecticut and Youngstown State back when we sucked.

So if these kids wanna get ticked that I follow VT more than LU, I was trying to give them the real world perspective that LU doesn't care if I follow a VT game more than an LU game, they just care when they received my Flames Club donation.

Current students need to understand that it is not the student fan base that makes the program. It is the "Baptist" side and it's wallets that build the program. There's a reason that most schools have 85% of their seating set aside for donors and not students.

[logic]

Again I do respectfully believe you're way off base, in fact not even close. There is a reason why this thread was started - the student section is a very important part of game day and ours is lacking. People care about that regardless of donation levels, and don't think that other students were the only ones to notice. LU most definitely cares who you follow - donations are nice but so are students and fans staying for the whole game. Money alone won't build a program - need the seats filled!

Speaking of seating, 85% is set aside for donors, fans, and alumni because they make up 85% of the fan base, not just because they pay for tickets and make the most donations. That is of course only logical, no university will ever have more students than alumni.

[JMUDukeDawg]

Before I say this, I want you guys to know where I'm coming from, apart from being a JMU and football fan. I went to law school at Regent, so I understand the vision and focus of LU more than most non-LU fans.

Having said that, I don't think that reaching the BCS national championship game will further LU's vision or purpose effectively. By the time you get to that point, the issue will not be whether the team and program has stayed true to course, it will be the reception it receives. There's a reason that more people watch ESPN than CBN, they don't want to watch CBN and the more they hear CBN on ESPN, they'll be turned away from, not towards, LU. Many people, even Christians, don't want to hear Churchy McChurcherson on a sports programming. I myself get tired of hearing it, but every now and then you will definitely see an athlete that "gets it" and that's refreshing. But I'm already a Christian, I don't need to be swayed. Those that need to be swayed will not be swayed through the BCS national championship.

In terms of reaching athletes, I think you guys have every reason to expect that the better you are in football, the better chance you have of reaching those players that may need it that may come to LU for the quality athletics and either be introduced to or get deeper into their faith at LU. But you should have that expectation for all students. That definitely happened to me at Regent. I would hope that's happening now, but it would obviously happen on a bigger stage if you got to that point.

If you're thinking in terms of attracting more students, that's a tough thing to predict. As the student body grows so does the faculty, as the faculty grows, it becomes harder to keep tabs on their ability to be in line with the vision of LU. I think if you take a look at Notre Dame, they're kind of all over the place now. The irony there is that fulfilling your vision could dilute it.

Anyway, my outsider's two cents on the whole thing...

[LUnpretty11]

I'm all for liking another team, but any other team is secondary to LU. I just get ticked when students and or alum pull for other universities over LU. I don't even like it when people show up wearing red, but red that has OSU or any other team on it. Or Phillies stuff... that ticks me off too.