[SuperJon]

So was Nevada, Buffalo, Western Kentucky, North Texas, Middle Tennesse State, and Troy.

Just because Boise State was successful, don't forget all the ones that weren't. For every success there are 2-3 failures.

[Sly Fox]

Do you consider those other schools you listed as failures, SJ?

[SuperJon]

Some have had a couple of years of success but they've also had some very dark years in some crappy conferences.

[ALAFlamesFan]

Actually I would trade places with most of those schools right now and I think in many cases we would have recruiting advantages that they do not have. Not trying to start anything just saying a lot can change in 15 years.

[Sly Fox]

I am with you, ALAFlamesFan. I look at schools like Troy as fiscally responsible but successful programs.

AS for crappy conferences, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. When I look around at our current situation the Sunbelt & MAC look like paradise.

[SuperJon]

Call me crazy, but I'd rather be the best at what we are over mediocre in a higher level. If we have to settle for a MAC or Sun Belt type league then I wouldn't wanna move up. If we can get with a group of well-established FCS schools (App, GSU, JMU, etc), new programs (ODU, Charlotte, etc), and smaller FBS schools in bad fit conferences (Marshall maybe) then okay but I wouldn't want to be around a league with a history of bad teams and mediocrity.

[LUconn]

I think that's ridiculous. It's really kind of a weak mentality. I would like to be the best where we are but I'd rather not be where we are at all. I'm just waiting for someone to throw out a special olympics reference at you. Would you like to drop to D2 basketball? I mean "a history of bad teams and mediocrity" fairly well describes BSC basketball. I want this school to be playing at the highest levels in all sports. Everything else can be overcome. Conferences can get better. And as we now see conference affiliation is anything but permanent.

[SuperJon]

In our current position, we can be one of the best teams in FCS football. I would rather be one of the best FCS teams than a mediocre FBS team in the Liberty Bowl on a Tuesday night in front of 3000 people. What I'm saying is instead of going FBS just for the sake of going FBS which is what Sly wants to do, I say we don't jump at the first opportunity and wait until we are in a position to make it as successful as possible.

To answer your D2 question: go ask a PC alum. I bet they wish they would've waited and had a better plan in place to jump to DI instead of just going when they did. They were great in D2 and now are terrible in a terrible conference.

I'm completely happy at the FCS level. I would prefer to be in a stronger conference and play FCS football and be one of the best in FCS football than to go FBS and go 6-5.

I'd rather be the big fish in a small pond than the small fish in a huge pond.

[olldflame]

I'm pretty much with SJ on this one. I want to see us win a FCS championship (or at least challenge for one a time or two) before we make the move up. Being the best at your level is really fun.

[LUconn]

I don't think you'll get a whole lot of chances. I agree that it would be best to move up with somewhat of an alliance with other like-minded schools but then your dependant not only on raising money and support for your school, which is hard enough, but also you've got to have that happen for 5 or 6 other schools. Who knows what kind of timetables they're on, what kind of commitment they truely have and a number of other factors that could slow them and therefore us or even completely change their minds. If we got an invite to an existing bad conference, it would be hard to pass up. Then we just have to rely on us. And as I've argued time and time again, success at the FCS level is not necessary for success at the next, in the least.

[SuperJon]

I agree with the success here doesn't mean success there argument. However, why take our other sports to a conference with more travel when it's likely just as bad as what we're in now just so we can maybe play a bad bowl game in the middle of nowhere? The MAC is barely better than the SoCon in basketball. The Sun Belt is a step up from the Big South but it's still 22. Reverse those in baseball (Sun Belt barely better than the SoCon, MAC much worse).

A low low low level FBS conference isn't going to bring enough money to screw over our other programs. I think our time would be much better spent trying to get into a CAA or SoCon type of league at the FCS level. Get in the best conference regionally and try to dominate the level that we're at.

This is all completely useless to argue about because nobody is asking us to be in their conference. We just have to make ourselves as pretty as possible and hope someone agrees to go to prom with us but their not going to see the inner beauty we all see.

[Sly Fox]

I have never implied we move up strictly for the sake of moving up. I just see a bigger stage for Liberty at FBS than FCS in order for the school to better accomplish its mission. 3000 at Liberty Bowl (not sure what possible scenario could create that situation) sounds better to our national impact aspirations than 1500 at Chuck South. And it certainly positions us to reach toward next rung of ladder. If BYU had been content to be a big fish in the small Big Sky pond they wouldn't regularly be a Top 25 football program possibly joining a revamped Big XII. I heard same grumblings back in the Late 80s when we stepped up from DII

I wouldn't be so hasty to assume that a low level FBS league would kill our non-revenue sports. And frankly the only two sports that really help us accomplish our goals are football & mens hoops. The rest are awesome but only the big two can generate large enough audiences.

[SuperJon]

I never said it would kill our other programs. I said it'd screw them over. The travel involved would be much more expensive for barely any reward.

Your Liberty Bowl vs CSU comparison is just stupid. One of those is regular season and one is post season. I'd much rather play four playoff games in front of 10-15k (and upwards 20-25k in a national championship) on the ESPN networks than play one game in front of 5000 people on a Tuesday night.

I'm not saying we never go FBS. I'm saying we wait until there's the best opportunity instead of going for the sake of going.

[Sly Fox]

Forgive me, I assumed you were referencing a regular season game at Liberty Bowl which is Memphis' homefield. Because the Liberty Bowl itself always pulls 50-60k. And even C-USA doormat Memphis never draws crappy attendance like 3k. There are some FBS schools that draw that poorly on occasion such Louisiana-Monroe. But typically even bad FBS programs draw better than all but a small handful of FCS programs who really should be FBS anyway.

As for those Tuesday games on ESPN they get infinitely better ratings than even the FCS Title game. I'm not an FCS hater. The playoff system is a blast. But I just think it is time to graduate to the next level. We are finally in a position where it is becoming a real possibility. I don't want to miss a rare opportunity because we feel we're not ready.

[SuperJon]

I was using hyperbole. I couldn't care less about lower level FBS so I had no clue there was a stadium or bowl called that. I called it the Liberty Bowl because we'd be playing in it.

[Sly Fox]

The only really lousy attendance bowl is the one the Sunbelt champ plays in ... the New Orleans Bowl. They play it in the Superdome and it draws 25-30k. The MAC champ plays in the Motor City Bowl which regular has 60k in attendance.

I think folks who live in FCS hotbed country are too quick to dismiss lower level FBS simply because they aren't paying close attention. We all agree that a Eastern lower level FBS league would be ideal for our next step. Hopefully the developments of the last week bring FBS closer to a playoff and such a league closer to reality. A playoff system would make setting up such a league a very worthwhile endeavor that would light a fire under a number of schools sitting on the fence.

[Stevev]

I might as well put in my .02 now since I had always had issues with where we are right now with the conference we in and how long we have been stuck there. I don't claim to know as much about the situation as some of you that are close to the program and that live in Lynchburg but right now there are no guarantees that there will be openings for us at all since it looks like the Big 12 is simply breaking up and going in different directions (Big 10, Pac 10, and Mountain West). Not sure at what point the conference moves filter down to the Eastern part of the US where teams get picked up and the dominos fall and then conferences want to replace schools moving up with other Up and coming programs. Maybe the experts (Sly, SJ, and others) will keep us in the loop. I do here about rumors of conference re-alignments but just not certain how they or if they would affect us.

Without getting too much into the detail we are very marketable as others have pointed out and our stadium expansion is sure to turn a few heads, the fading of the "Jerry's school" perception, our growth, and better financial situation. Right now we need to align ourselves with programs such as James Madison, William and Mary, Richmond, Delaware, ODU, GMU, VCU, Villanova, and so on and get in with teams such as this rather than shooting for the stars and going 1A. I have a feeling that most of the programs above are going to be investing more resources in athletics and some are doing so right now ( referring to JMU's stadium expansion) and we need to move with them and in the mean time develope some in-state rivalries. That way we could be competitive and not have to face such a tough transition when you go up and play 1A. I look forward to seeing what develops and how it affects us when and if that time comes.

[JK37]

the experts (Sly, SJ)

I'm insulted!

we need to align ourselves with programs such as James Madison, William and Mary, Richmond, Delaware, ODU, GMU, VCU, Villanova

I'm inclined to agree with the full tenor of your post, but this to me looks like a Who's Who list of schools which disagree with us vehemently philosophically, and which we've always felt would oppose our admission into their respective conferences.

But as you say, maybe times have changed.

[Cider Jim]

We all agree that a Eastern lower level FBS league would be ideal for our next step.

Sly, what would be some examples of such conferences? Or, are you thinking like creating a new one? If it's the latter, what schools would likely join?

[ATrain]

We all agree that a Eastern lower level FBS league would be ideal for our next step.

Sly, what would be some examples of such conferences? Or, are you thinking like creating a new one? If it's the latter, what schools would likely join?

I'm thinking the oft-discussed conference on here of us, App. State, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, Charlotte, ODU, JMU and Delaware.

Otherwise I think our best shot would be Conference USA.

[Cider Jim]

Sounds like a good 8-team conference. I think I recall Sly wanting to name this the "Appalachian Conference."

[Sly Fox]

Atrain essentially has the idea with the possibility of a disenfranchised C-USA team thrown in as a possibility. And for the record, I have never had any interest in using the word Appalachian in anything.

[Cider Jim]

Sorry, Sly, the "Appalachian Conference" was actually 14's idea.

(I have to give credit where credit is due, and thanks to the 'search' feature, I found the original quote).

Appalachian Conference
Marshall
ECU
Liberty
Old Dominion
James Madison
Georgia State
Troy
UAB

[Sly Fox]

Keep in mind that you really only need a 6-team league for postseason eligibility. So even a roster of just FCS step-ups could be the pathway to the FBS. Marshall, Temple & ECU simply were listed as possibilities primarily because of proximity. Obviously ECU & Marshall have greater aspirations.

Until the NCAA moratorium is lifted it is all just talk. I'd love to see a group of schools make the move together so that they all collectively bite the bullet on auto bids for a couple of years.

[JK37]

Sorry, Sly, the "Appalachian Conference" was actually 14's idea.

(I have to give credit where credit is due, and thanks to the 'search' feature, I found the original quote).

Appalachian Conference
Marshall
ECU
Liberty
Old Dominion
James Madison
Georgia State
Troy
UAB

I'm sorry I missed this the first time. But with ODU, Troy, and UAB a better conference name than "Appalachian" needs to be chosen!

Those teams aren't mountain-enough.