Here is the place for all other LU sponsored sports. Come here to post about: Men's/Women's Cross Country, Men's Golf, Men's/Women's Soccer, Men's/Women's Tennis, Men's/Women's Track & Field, Women's Lacrosse, Women's Swimming & Dive, Women's Volleyball

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#309456
I'm kind of concerned where all of this realignment will leave LU. If these 16 team super conferences are formed, that's pretty much a permanent moratorium on moving up unless you can find 15 other teams that are just as left out as you. And even then, could your program make any money in a conference full of teams that nobody else wanted? It's funny because the shuffling is the key to us sneaking into some FBS conference but at the same time that could render all of the non elite conferences to a slow death.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#309459
You beat me to the punch, LUconn. I was just about to start a new thread based on how all of this realignment could affect us. And frankly, this could ultimately prove to be a real blessing for us once the dust settles. There are a number of reasons why I feel the timing is good for us to make a step forward. Now where that step would leave us is a complete mystery. But this should be looked at as an opportunity for a school like LU as opposed to a nightmare for others.

I plan on one of my lengthy diatribes later today but suffice it to say we are very fortunate that we are already in the middle of our stadium expansion and it is not just talk.
By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#309472
And really we can just relegate this discussion to how it affects football because that is the only thing that matters. You can be a player in all of the other sports pretty much anywhere.


Well, let's make a huge assumption that the Pac 10, Big 10, SEC, and ACC all go to 16 teams. That's 64 teams almost all of which have all of the major market and resources tied up across the country (there's bound to be 1 or 2 parasitic teams that are included via politics). There's a lot of problems for everybody else. It would be very difficult to get on TV or get local support since every area "has" one of the Big 64. Our current system is set up to make it as difficult as possible for "outsiders" to be in on the national discussion, and I would see that getting even worse. Maybe even to the point where the Big 64 could force the NCAA to put them in some superior subdivision so even by rule no other team has a shot. Heck they could even form something outside of the NCAA itself.

LU's ideal situation would be a couple conferences expanding, and those conferences that lost key football members need anybody just to fill their schedule and we're slightly less horrible and/or closer than Jacksonville St or somebody. And the status quo in all conferences holds steady for a decade or so. Then maybe we're better positioned for a future shuffle. I don't know, it all seems like a long shot, but so was this entire school 40 years ago
By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#309480
does anything we discuss have a point?
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#309481
jcmanson wrote:For me, it's pointless to even discuss until the first domino falls.
That's how I feel now .. I'm very interested, but what's there to say until the first domino falls? The Big 10 or the Pac-10 have to make a move, but them being the first isn't even guaranteed.

All of this is fueled by greed .. but to me, if university presidents would wake up and realize the BCS and the whole idea of bowls is a sham that keeps them from making even more money, the talk of expansion would become second fiddle to the talk of scrapping that system for a 16-team playoff.
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By jcmanson
Registration Days Posts
#309483
LUconn wrote:does anything we discuss have a point?
Of course, especially the ideas you bring up since they all come to fruition.
By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#309567
So now that we have king manson's blessing, I'd like to read Sly's thesis on the matter.
By Hold My Own
Registration Days Posts
#309576
Lukon, he's kind of right. IMO your ideas about the pool, treasure and whatever else you've said that the city, N&A and other news sources have stolen, I believe are important.
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#309587
OK, I have some major assignments from the past few days behind me ... although Inside Edition called tonight and has me scrambling tomorrow. So there is no better time than this evening to start rambling incoherent thoughts.

Up until now, there essentially have been three classes of Division I football programs:
  • 1. The Big Boys - Primarily from BCS conferences with Notre Dame and some gate crashers from leagues like the MWC & WAC. They are the big money schools who actually manage to turn a profit.

    2. Everybody Else in FBS - There is a significant dropoff for these programs which basically begin each year looking to find a way to become bowl eligible. The Big Boys need these guys to pad their own records for bowl eligibility.

    3. FCS - Yeah, you could divide this into the haves & have nots of I-AA but there really is such a small differential that it is not worth noting. Get the privilege of playing in a playoff that the rest of America couyld care less about.
As much as I love the playoff system and hope it is eventually put in play by the Big Boys, frankly it doesn't do any more for the reputation and the college experience of a school than a random bowl in New Orleans or Tampa. Frankly I have long since felt the value of being in category 2 far exceeded any success in Category 3. But that has always just been personal preference that I recognize is not held by many of my friends.

With this current wave of realignments, I am not sure how this will all shake out. But here is my best guess:
  • 1. Super Conferences - 16-team leagues snatch up most of the TV revenue. A group of five (Big Ten, SEC, ACC/Big East grouping, Pac 10, MWC) leagues essentially become an 80(?)-team super classification.

    2. Everybody Else in FBS - Conference USA survives with a completely revamped lineup along with the WAC and then regional leagues like the MAC, Sunbelt and another Eastern league of I-AA step-ups.

    3. FCS - With the moratorium lifted and everyone in same boat of waiting out auto bids, there is a large number of top FCS schools who step up for invites to Everybody Else leagues as well as a new Eastern regional league. The watered down classification will lose even more relevance.
Under this scenario, the 'Everybody Else' tier will be scrambled and will be looking for a few key FCS schools to come up and fill the gaps. What will be their likely key priorities? Proximity has to be high on the list in order to keep costs down since television revenue will be sparse now that the 'Big Boys' have taken an even larger portion of the TV revenue pie. Then it comes down primarily to simple things like attendance, facilities, school financial stability (a MAJOR concern in places like Louisiana & Mississippi) and finally television markets.

Fortunately for us, the past few years has seen us grow into one of the top FCS schools in attendance and not only do we have grand plans to eventually expand out stadium to 60k, we actually have a major portion of that construction underway right now. We aren't just talking the talk like a number of other schools, we are actually walking the walk. Gone for now are the days of LU teetering on the edge of financial insolvency. We actually have a track record of spending money to upgrade facilities and for recruiting and still have a university in a solid economic state. As for television markets, well, Roanoke-Lynchburg doesn't do us any favors. But the fact that we have a national alumni base and enough interest to garner national coverage carries a great deal of weight in th eyes of league commissioners not named Kyle.

Just think about it ... five years ago we would have had practically no chance of drawing the attention of anyone. But all of the positive developments in the past few years have positioned us as one of the most attractive FCS schools available. That is to the credit of our administration, a forward-thinking AD, the generosity of key donors and most importantly God. Even though our religious & political reputation will always be an issue with many, I don't believe it is as damaging today toward our efforts as it was 5-10 years ago.

Bottom line: We are positioned to make a step forward whether it be up to an FBS league or a stronger FCS partnership. We need to be proactive and make sure that potential suitors recognize all of the aforementioned changes we have made. It is time to start marketing ourselves not just to ticket-buyers & donors but also to leagues who might not recognize what a strong option we are today. Of course there are many variables beyond our control that could determine our fate. But I personally believe God has positioned us perfectly for such a time as this.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#309601
Where this impacts us is in the lower level Big East/A10 schools that are more basketball schools than football schools but still offer football.

Where does Villanova end up? Do they bring their football up to FBS? (Doubt it but possible.)
Does UMass start thinking about moving their football up? (Very possible.)
Does Richmond consider moving up? (I think there's no chance of this.)
Does Fordham entertain the idea of moving up? (No clue at all.)
Does Charlotte make plans to move up to FBS quickly? (Wouldn't surprise me.)

If most of those are yes, then those schools that say yes will likely band together. This is where I could see the mass move up of ODU, GSU (both of them), JMU, App, and Liberty could happen.
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By flamesfilmguy
Registration Days Posts
#309603
SuperJon wrote:Where this impacts us is in the lower level Big East/A10 schools that are more basketball schools than football schools but still offer football.

Where does Villanova end up? Do they bring their football up to FBS? (Doubt it but possible.)
Does UMass start thinking about moving their football up? (Very possible.)
Does Richmond consider moving up? (I think there's no chance of this.)
Does Fordham entertain the idea of moving up? (No clue at all.)
Does Charlotte make plans to move up to FBS quickly? (Wouldn't surprise me.)

If most of those are yes, then those schools that say yes will likely band together. This is where I could see the mass move up of ODU, GSU (both of them), JMU, App, and Liberty could happen.
I haven't thought of that. however there is a slight flaw to that. if all those schools move together and make a conference its not exactly a strong conference. i feel as though the recruiting in that conference would not be good. and it would be like just having another very good FCS conference. just calling it Div I-A. I do agree that if there was a mass exodus that those teams would be the first ones i'd look at to move up together.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#309604
flamesfilmguy wrote: if all those schools move together and make a conference its not exactly a strong conference.
It's better than the MAC and the Sun Belt from day one. It wouldn't be long until it was on par with the WAC and Conference USA. I doubt it'll happen, but it wouldn't be because it's not a strong conference.
By From the class of 09
Registration Days Posts
#309612
Yeah and even if it’s a weak FBS conference its still FBS football, where you will have the opportunity to go to bowl games. Where now, as mentioned earlier, we get the chance to make a playoff that nobody outside the schools involved really cares about. Playing in the FBS would be a step up that would be needed if you ever wanted to play in a conference with the big boys.

Also just keep in mind once we expand to these mega conferences the only way they will be able to look to improve there positions in the future (10-15 years) is addition by subtraction. If LU continues to grow and excel at its current pace who better to fill a spot of an underperformer (yes, I know that this is me dreaming and no I’m not delusional, yet :P )
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By jcmanson
Registration Days Posts
#309636
I hate saying this, but Doc passing when he did can only help us when talking about moving up. I don't think we would ever be able to move up or even jump to the CAA/SOCON with him still here. It's sad, but true. It just seems that all the dots are coming together in perfect timing, timing that can only be supernatural.

And no it's not crazy to say we could one day be in one of the "superconferences." I fully believe we will be one day. I may not live to see it, but my daughter will. I've always felt that way.

Before I/we get too excited, I'm waiting/hoping for these moves to extend eastward. I think they will eventually whether that's this year, next year, or in 5.
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By jcmanson
Registration Days Posts
#309638
Also, to add to Sly's post: we own our own TV network. That's another bargaining chip we offer that many other schools do not.
By soccer7
Registration Days Posts
#309654
Could we possibly see Liberty and Notre Dame playing each other in the ACC sooner than Later :D How great would that be!!
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#309674
jcmanson wrote:Also, to add to Sly's post: we own our own TV network. That's another bargaining chip we offer that many other schools do not.
I'm not sure I'd call that a bargaining chip. Revenue derived from it could display our national alumni base and impact, but if we really want to use it and grow it from where it is, joining a conference with greater TV regulations and alliances would hinder the such growth.
By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#309677
Is there revenue from that? I always thought it was more marketing that we were paying for.
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By jcmanson
Registration Days Posts
#309679
I was thinking more along the lines of if we were joining a newly formed league w/o tv capabilities, and them buying our equipment and capabilities very cheap. Not sure if that's something that is realistic or not. Just thinking out loud, and thought it couldn't hurt us.
By Blessed1
Registration Days Posts
#309715
I was reading an article on ESPN that mentioned Cal blocking Baylor's entrance into the new Pac 10. Most felt that Baylor was blocked because Colorado was more attractive in terms of TV revenue because of the Denver market. However, some felt that Baylor's religious views held them back.

So I am wondering... Do you think Liberty's Christian views would hurt them when they: 1) move up to a FBS conference or 2) try to form a new FBS conference with other FCS teams?
#309717
They are a religious school? :dontgetit
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#309743
jcmanson wrote:I was thinking more along the lines of if we were joining a newly formed league w/o tv capabilities, and them buying our equipment and capabilities very cheap. Not sure if that's something that is realistic or not. Just thinking out loud, and thought it couldn't hurt us.
I guess I see what you men now. I suppose a conference looking to make a big TV move could possibly see a school with expertise in the field as a benefit. I don't know. In today's age, I would think TV acumen wouldn't be that hard to find. Therefore, we'd have to bring more to the table than that (not that we don't already).
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