[matshark]

Wasn't intended to create a personal attack. Simply to post a link to what I believed was relevant info regarding what many people in the sport consider to be a substandard instructor and a danger to the horses and students that this person comes in contact with.

As such, I believe the University would be liable for having such information and not doing anything about it. Further, I believe that it is negligent to hide such information.

I believe this to be one of the bigger stories that could be brought to FF attention, certainly one where peoples lives and well being CERTAINLY hang in the balance, and it's brushed off as a personal attack. I believe this to be a relevant criticism, by people in the know regarding the sport - which we are not - and to not allow it to be seen is quite frankly wrong in my opinion and puts others safety at risk. This is untenable and outrageous in my opinion.

[Sly Fox]

Posting a link and raising concerns is acceptable. But that thread got out of line quickly. If we can stick to facts and avoid personal attacks then the subject matter is fair game.

[matshark]

fair enough. granted, i did try to steer it back to the issue at hand and away from the thread hijacking. i wasn't particularly thrilled about calling out other people not on topic with this one.

i'll repost the link.

[matshark]

http://www.fuglyblog.com/2009/part-461- ... the-blind/

excerpt:

"We all come across scary trainers all day – people who don’t even know what they are doing themselves and are doing a bang-up job of passing their ignorance on. If I put up every one, this blog would be about nothing else, but this one, Crystal Rivers, is special in that she has made a real project of documenting her poor training online. Yes, youtube is full of her students – who have not mastered riding on the flat – flying over jumps and careening around corners on the wrong leads.

I don’t know if these riders are youths or adults but I’m sharing this solely to illustrate the abysmal quality of the training. Any of these riders could be a good riders with a competent trainer, but sadly they are wasting their money on someone who…

doesn’t appear to know leads (that’s her yelling at the student) and is letting this person jump SO far beyond her ability that a bad accident seems inevitable.

There was a video of someone jumping an oxer backwards, but apparently that got removed already. However, she left the still on her web site. How scary is it that someone who claims to be a professional trainer put this picture on her own web site and does not know it is wrong? I’m endlessly amazed at how people memorialize all their oopses on the web – and NOT by saying “hey, look at me having a dumb--- moment, ha ha, I jumped the jump backwards.” No, I’m pretty sure this student thinks she is doing the right thing and that it’s exactly what hertrainer told her to do. Eeek. "

-------------------------

IMO the Athletic Department should do something about this as they will be held liable WHEN something happens. I already know of one boarder who had a young horse killed when she boarded it with a stallion. If LU does not at the very least investigate, they will be opening themselves up to ALL SORTS of liability and law suits in an ALREADY DANGEROUS sport.

[matshark]

Its ok BYD, I tend to agree with you on the subject that was discussed. (A-Train has his own set of concerns with the issues mentioned and could shed further light on it) That particular thread probably just wasn't the best place to air those concerns. I think that all Ath Dept staff should be held to the highest standards of professionalism and performance... hence, this post.

[jcmanson]

matshark, I think your last post on that thread was what tipped it over the line not the ones leading up to it. And that post was on topic.

[matshark]

well, i'd go back to see what it was, but that's a little difficult at the moment.

however, if it's what i think it was, i would say that people's actions and prior history are certainly relevant in deciding whether or not they should be a representative of an institution that is dead set against those actions.

[jcmanson]

Sure, but you have to have facts rather than hearsay. You can't throw accusations out there like that unless you've seen it with your own 2 eyes. And based on what you said I hope you haven't

[JK37]

Realizing that this blogger has some decent evidence, I get the feeling that the variant schools of thought in this industry, as well as the money at stake, lend themselves to some awfully caustic and hateful delineations on the opposite parts of verbally sparring rivals. Let's see if there's more than one person taking cheapshots at this coach, before we just dive right into one person's opinion.

[PAmedic]

I re-formatted MATSHARK's original post to make it obvious that he was quoting another author- not making any allegations himself.

As far as the content of that blog- it's beyond my comprehension and seems somewhat technical in nature. I'd agree w/ JK37 that it could well be some professional animosity at work, but I'd HOPE we "vetted" all candidates thoroughly before hiring a coach/head trainer.

Anyone that knows about horses/riding, feel free to weigh in.

[matshark]

Ty PA.

Not making personal accusations about the coach, simply raising what I think are relevant concerns regarding the ability and knowledge of the coach as stated by people in the know. The person that brought this to my attention is someone that I went to high school with and has no reason to tell me otherwise if it were not so. In other words, I have every reason to believe they are spot on with their own criticisms of the coach, in addition to the website that they brought to my attention.

Matshark

[SuperJon]

I've stayed out of this but can you explain to me what makes you think we're adding women's equestrian at the varsity level?

[Sly Fox]

Well two years ago it was stated that we would be adding three womens sports to help us fit into Title IX compliance and the three listed were LAX, Swimming & Equestrian. Has there been a change of plans? Or was the Title IX aspect misunderstood to imply that this would be a varsity sport?

[SuperJon]

It's been two years since that article. On the official athletic site, there's been movement on swimming and lacrosse but equestrian has never been mentioned. Just makes me skeptical.

[Sly Fox]

I guess I just assumed that it was taking longer to get the infrastructure in place for equestrian. But things obviously do change over time.

[JK37]

why not field hockey?

I'm thinking maybe no response to surveys and meetings.

[olldflame]

I'm sure purists of either sport could tell me a million reasons why I'm wrong on this, but the fact is that lacross and field hockey are really pretty much the same sport. I like the idea of doing something totally different like equestrian, and if I am not mistaken we have some of the facilities already in place, so why not? I don't know who else in the area has it, but I know it's a big deal up at Sweet Briar.

[olldflame]

Oh, come on BYD; any fool can see they have a lot more in common with each other than with sports like football and basketball. Granted hockey has a lot of similarities, but there's that little matter of it being played on ice, with skates and a puck. Both lax and field hockey are played on grass/turf with similar balls and similar sized goals. Aside from a few rules, the only significant difference is that lacross has a stick which allows players to carry the ball, while field hockey doesn't.

[BJWilliams]

It's been two years since that article. On the official athletic site, there's been movement on swimming and lacrosse but equestrian has never been mentioned. Just makes me skeptical.

I heard that there was movement on the club level but I havent heard much since (I had a friend who was going to be a part of it but her schedule wouldnt allow it)

[ATrain]

During my time in the Hancock building, it was mentioned more than once that equestrian was an expensive sport to add.

[flamesbball84]

During my time in the Hancock building, it was mentioned more than once that equestrian was an expensive sport to add.

It's one of the most expensive you can possibly add. About the only two sports I can think of that would be more expensive is football and maybe swimming (depending on the school). An expensive sport like lacrosse which often has 35-40+ person rosters isn't even as expensive as equestrian.

[matshark]

Sweet Briar and Randolph College both have Equestrian.

[ATrain]

Sweet Briar and Randolph College both have Equestrian.

Yes, but Sweet Briar has a ton of money...not sure how Randolph College is funding it. They're also D-III, so they don't give out schollies.

[olldflame]

Equestrian no doubt has a high cost per student athlete, because of some of the ancilliary costs involved, but unless I'm mistaken, the number of scholarships would be relatively low, and that is by far the biggest expense in any program. It also makes it a questionable choice as a sport to use to achieve equity for title IX purposes.

[JK37]

scholarships would be relatively low, and that is by far the biggest expense in any program.

Insurance.