[SuperJon]

And that's where our differences are. I have my reasonings for believing the way the way that I do. I'm sure you have yours. One of us is right, and one of us is wrong. It's not my place to say it. I'm more concerned with getting people to realize that they are a sinner, need God's forgiveness, and that the way to get that is through Jesus Christ. I'm not concerned about arguing the ins and outs of the Christian faith with anyone who disagrees with me in one of the issues that isn't what I just described. I've known ATrain was gay for over two years. I've never once treated him different than before he told me. Just because I don't agree with his lifestyle doesn't mean I can't treat him the way Jesus taught us to treat people. I have plenty of friends that I disagree with their lifestyle in some way but I still treat them with love. I know my convictions and I know why I have those convictions. I'm not about to say that mine are the same as yours.

[RagingTireFire]

I'm gay, too.







No, wait...I'm not gay, just happy.







No, wait....I'm not that either. What is it that I am again?







Oh, yeah....I'm just disappointed in humanity. That's it.

Boy, that's not very gay at all, is it?

[flamesfilmguy]

I'm gay, too.







No, wait...I'm not gay, just happy.







No, wait....I'm not that either. What is it that I am again?







Oh, yeah....I'm just disappointed in humanity. That's it.

Boy, that's not very gay at all, is it?

Are you on Crack tonight?

[Old School]

Sorry...I just had to put my two cents worth in...ATrain stated that if there a reason outside of religious reasons against homo marriage he would like to know what it was. So I would like to know he and a future partner would have kids without outside help or adoption...if it was normal then that shouldn't be a problem.

[ATrain]

Sorry...I just had to put my two cents worth in...ATrain stated that if there a reason outside of religious reasons against homo marriage he would like to know what it was. So I would like to know he and a future partner would have kids without outside help or adoption...if it was normal then that shouldn't be a problem.

Just to clarify, are you saying that the whole point of marriage is to have kids??? Based on that argument, anyone who is infertile shouldn't be allowed to get married.

However, I believe children are not the point for getting married. I thought love was the point.

[ALUmnus]

Sorry...I just had to put my two cents worth in...ATrain stated that if there a reason outside of religious reasons against homo marriage he would like to know what it was. So I would like to know he and a future partner would have kids without outside help or adoption...if it was normal then that shouldn't be a problem.

Just to clarify, are you saying that the whole point of marriage is to have kids??? Based on that argument, anyone who is infertile shouldn't be allowed to get married.

However, I believe children are not the point for getting married. I thought love was the point.

Actually, that's what our culture has turned it into. But God actually gave us marriage, we didn't make it up. He never said that love was a requirement before marriage, but it is after marriage. Believe me, I would never marry a woman I didn't love, just stating the fact of what marriage is, an ordination of God, not something that people can do just because they love each other.

[LUconn]

*redacted*

[Old School]

First let me say this...ATrain I want you to know I have no hard feelings toward you or anyone. People, me included, have to stand before God one day and confess their sins and I know I will have my hands full without taking on any additional burdens or sins. However getting back to the kids thing, I have been married for 34 years and did it for love as you stated. It was a choice I made before God, who I, as you will have to answer to one day, if i fail in that commitment, should you choose to marry. Children are a gift from God, which if you marry someone from the opposite sex is a natural function of that relationship. Once again, that is a choice you may or may not choose to partake in. That whether, you like it or not, is a natural result of the marriage bond, not from a test tube or though adoption, neither I think is bad for those hetro couples who can't have children. So that being said, is a reason, outside of religion, that I believe homo marriage is wrong. May you seek God's wisdom in the future and I hope to meet you someday at Liberty.

[ATrain]

From a secular standpoint, I would think it's original purpose to ensure the society continues. It encourages reproduction and healthy child rearing.

Yet allowing homosexual marriage would somehow stop this? If that were the only purpose, without the other legal rights, then let it remain between heterosexuals. I'll agree that a mom and a dad in a committed relationship for life is the ideal setting for raising children, but if two guys or two women in a committed relationship, that child has a great chance of being brought up to be a healthy individual.

[4everfsu]

Atrain, praying for you my brother.

[truedrewdawg87]

Personally, I respect someone's freedom to make their own choices for their life. I agree with those who have already stated that homosexuality is a choice. I also believe that we ALL sin and fall short of the glory of God. However, I believe that our top priority every single day should be to live lives that glorify God to the best of our ability and attempt to grow closer to God everyday. I believe that knowingly living a lifestyle that blatantly contradicts the Bible severely hinders one's ability to draw closer to God.
I'm just as much a sinner as the next guy, but I try not to base my lifestyle around something that totally goes against God's word. There's plenty of scripture that clearly lays out God's plan for marriage and what he views as immoral.
I have a hard time imagining feeling OK with knowing what God's word says and then living a lifestyle that totally goes against that.
I believe Christians should treat homosexuals with the same love and respect that we show to anyone else, however I also believe that we should stand by an unwavering stance that boldly and unashamedly stands by the word of God.
I don't believe the Bible can be treated like a buffet where one can pick and choose which part's of God's word they want to obey.

[GoUNCA]

I don't believe the Bible can be treated like a buffet where one can pick and choose which part's of God's word they want to obey.

Couldn't agree with you more, which is why I changed my views on the Bible. But if you subscribe to a "literal" interpretation of the Bible this is what you are inevitably doing. Either you say that Leviticus is in fact the laws of God (and try to follow them.....http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news ... ally_N.htm) OR were just the representative laws of an early jewish society OR say that Jesus became the law and thus you don't necessarily have to follow it (ie eat pork, shellfish, wear mixed clothes...the list goes on and on).

Most of you will choose the third option because you would otherwise sound hypocritical, but if you do this you are basically opening up to the possibility that homosexuality isn't a sin either. I'll be very open about the fact that I think the second option is the best way to go.

Now someone will start quoting Paul....

[ATrain]

For those that are interested, www.gaychirstian.net has more info. There are two sides there represented (known as A and B), and the essays there explain it better than I can, and I've never been good at apologetics (translated by apologetics grads to mean defense).

And since we are going to the debate for "buffet-style Christianity," I am pretty sure that everyone of us here is or has been guilty of it.

[matshark]

A-Train is on point today...lol

[4everfsu]

I have a problem with homosexual so called marriage, just the fact that marriage was deemed between man and woman as stated in Genesis. Just calling a union between two homosexual a marriage is a slap in the face to God as far as I am concerned. Just my 2 cents worth. Other then that I really don't care what they they do. If they want to shack up together,etc. Yes we can love the sinners, does not mean we have to love what he or she does.

[truedrewdawg87]

All I know is you might be able to defend homosexuality with the best of them on a message board but the farthest that's probably going to get you is the respect of man and perhaps a trophy at a debate tournament. Standing before God Almighty on judgment day that's not going to get you very far.

[ATrain]

All I know is you might be able to defend homosexuality with the best of them on a message board but the farthest that's probably going to get you is the respect of man and perhaps a trophy at a debate tournament. Standing before God Almighty on judgment day that's not going to get you very far.

The only thing I trust on judgment day is the blood of Jesus Christ.

[GoUNCA]

I have a problem with homosexual so called marriage, just the fact that marriage was deemed between man and woman as stated in Genesis. Just calling a union between two homosexual a marriage is a slap in the face to God as far as I am concerned. Just my 2 cents worth. Other then that I really don't care what they they do. If they want to shack up together,etc. Yes we can love the sinners, does not mean we have to love what he or she does.

Yet you don't care about athiests, Hindus, Muslims, or any other non-Christian having a man-woman marriage licensed by the government. A non believer marriage would, in that point of view, be just as big a "slap in the face to God." Hello double standard.

Standing before God Almighty on judgment day that's not going to get you very far.

Are you just missing the point that I think while standing before God Almighty that God won't care much about it? He probably thinks that if you focus on not liking gay marriage that you missed the point.

[truedrewdawg87]

How can you accept the blood of Jesus Christ and then read the Bible and choose to live a life that BLATANTLY disobeys the word of God?
The difference between most Christians and homosexuals is that while Christians sin they realize their faults and mistakes and ask for forgiveness and attempt to improve upon those things with help from God.
Homosexuals realize what the Bible says about their lifestyle choices and yet they choose to turn their back on that and live a life that dishonors God.
If you play with fire long enough sooner or later you're going to get burned. Good luck trying to convince God when you're standing before Him that homosexuality is OK. If you're convinced that you're capable of doing that then you're a lot bolder than I am.

[ALAFlamesFan]

How can you accept the blood of Jesus Christ and then read the Bible and choose to live a life that BLATANTLY disobeys the word of God?
The difference between most Christians and homosexuals is that while Christians sin they realize their faults and mistakes and ask for forgiveness and attempt to improve upon those things with help from God.
Homosexuals realize what the Bible says about their lifestyle choices and yet they choose to turn their back on that and live a life that dishonors God.
If you play with fire long enough sooner or later you're going to get burned. Good luck trying to convince God when you're standing before Him that homosexuality is OK. If you're convinced that you're capable of doing that then you're a lot bolder than I am.

True-

if you had spent anytime talking to homosexuals in the church you would realize that they would argue that the Bible does not BLATANTY say that. This makes the rest of your post off point. (Not saying your reading of the Bible is off...just your argument.)

Talk to a few folks like Atrain, listen to what they are saying, then post.

[truedrewdawg87]

Leviticus 18:22 "Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin."

Leviticus 20:13 "If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."

This tells me all I need to know on how God feels about homosexuality.

[truedrewdawg87]

Excuse me, I didn't know I needed to go to 'How to post 101' before I posted.
Also, my boss is gay so I'm pretty sure I have an understanding of the way homosexuals think and how they feel about their lifestyle. He's a friend of mine but I definitely don't agree with his lifestyle.
I don't understand how someone can call themselves a Christian and not believe the Bible is the inherent word of God that can't be ignored. The fact that homosexuals disregard what the Bible says about homosexuality is a complete slap in the face to me as someone who believes the Bible is without question the word of God to be believed in and obeyed.

[ATrain]

Leviticus 18:22 "Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin."

Leviticus 20:13 "If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."

This tells me all I need to know on how God feels about homosexuality.

Yet they're extremely close to the verses that outlaw the wearing of clothing made of more than one fabric. I don't see anywhere in the New Testament where that one got overturned.

[Hold My Own]

A-train, let me get this right so I dont jump to conclusions. Are you for or against Gay Marriage?

[ATrain]

A-train, let me get this right so I dont jump to conclusions. Are you for or against Gay Marriage?

I am for equal government recognition of homosexual and heterosexual unions, which seems to be under the term marriage. However, I am not for a church or pastor being forced to marry two guys or two girls, as I also believe in the first amendment and the freedom to practice religion.