[Liberty Freelance]

To just defer to a few university administrators to dictate your religion, your politics, and your morals is intellectually lazy. You guys should be more intellectually mature and think a little more independently than that.

[Hold My Own]

Since you asked, there are a number of LU employees who are on here. That should tell you that the school has come a long way in permitting employees to speak in a forum operated independently.

But none of the moderators of the Lynchburg Life forum are LU employees.

That's a great point Sly....just years ago LU Employees could forget about posting on here without some sort of repercussions...now it's encouraged in a sense with some...

[4everfsu]

4everfsu:

You're ignoring that the campus Dems were probably coerced into including that in their constitution in the first place. And that's really the issue.

This situation is unbelievable. And that there is anyone on here still defending the university is a disgrace. Does no one around there have an activist bone in your body? Where are the professors? The school is making a mockery of what it means to be an academic institution. Students should be protesting. The school is humiliating the students and the graduates. Revoking funding from the group is indefensible. There are simple ways around it that I've already proposed. You guys need to wake up.

So do you have any proof that the campus Dems were cocered into including that into their consitution? No you don't.

The only one with their panties in a wad over this is you.

[pbow]

You're ignoring that the campus Dems were probably coerced into including that in their constitution in the first place. And that's really the issue.

This situation is unbelievable. And that there is anyone on here still defending the university is a disgrace. Does no one around there have an activist bone in your body? Where are the professors? The school is making a mockery of what it means to be an academic institution. Students should be protesting. The school is humiliating the students and the graduates. Revoking funding from the group is indefensible. There are simple ways around it that I've already proposed. You guys need to wake up.

Why is that such an issue??? You're not really making any sense. People frequently debate political issues at LU, but the point is that LU is unique in that it actually has some core political/moral issues that it stands for. Do you really think that the university should be giving money to a group whose "parent group" pretty much revokes any moral issue that LU represents. Your need for constant political correctness is really quite pathetic. I have no problem with there being a LU Democrats club on campus, but arguing that they should receive money from this university is ignorant at best.

[BJWilliams]

To just defer to a few university administrators to dictate your religion, your politics, and your morals is intellectually lazy. You guys should be more intellectually mature and think a little more independently than that.

This is my last point in this discussion but this is a pretty big leap I think to assume that the administration dictates the religion, politics, or morals of its students. Have you heard the phrase "You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink"? You seem to be the only one crying that the school is suppressing anything. There is a very free exchange of ideas in classes and in the dorms. I mean I had a Democrat (who happened to be a Christian *gasp* oh thats right, NO ONE SAID you couldnt be a Democrat and a Christian) as a roommate and it made for some very spirited discussions in the room at night. The school isnt forcefeeding ideas on anyone and to think otherwise is just plain wrong. Now they may SAY things but the students are independent thinkers and they can make the determination on their own where they stand and many feel the way the school does on certain issues and its not because theyve been apparently indoctrinated and they are suppressing any counterperspective. I mean we've had our fair governor Tim Kaine on more than a few occasions to speak to the students. As has been said before, Ted Kennedy has spoken here (God be with him btw). Maybe in previous years there was a level of regulation on what students believed and where they could go to church and what not, but that is not the case now and to think otherwise is immature at best and dangerous at worst.

[Libertine]

My way or the highway is a pretty shaky foundation on which to build an academic institution. You guys are willing to settle for that?

Most of us are well aware that this is how the entire world works. Trust me, someday you're going to go out into the real world, you'll get a job and your boss will insist that you shake out the french fries in a certain way. This will not be up for debate. You might suggest that you explore alternate method of fry-dispensing but, having the benefit of time and experience, he will insist that you do it his way and, should you not comply, your paper hat will be littering the highway.

[ToTheLeft]

My way or the highway is a pretty shaky foundation on which to build an academic institution. You guys are willing to settle for that?

Most of us are well aware that this is how the entire world works. Trust me, someday you're going to go out into the real world, you'll get a job and your boss will insist that you shake out the french fries in a certain way. This will not be up for debate. You might suggest that you explore alternate method of fry-dispensing but, having the benefit of time and experience, he will insist that you do it his way and, should you not comply, your paper hat will be littering the highway.

We have a winner.

[Sly Fox]

Dude, the school is taking an activist stance. They are making decisions that they know will be perceived in an negative light but they are standing on their principles. Whether you or I agree with the decision we can't deny that they are taking a stand.

[matshark]

My way or the highway is a pretty shaky foundation on which to build an academic institution. You guys are willing to settle for that?

Most of us are well aware that this is how the entire world works. Trust me, someday you're going to go out into the real world, you'll get a job and your boss will insist that you shake out the french fries in a certain way. This will not be up for debate. You might suggest that you explore alternate method of fry-dispensing but, having the benefit of time and experience, he will insist that you do it his way and, should you not comply, your paper hat will be littering the highway.

We have a winner.

It's amazing to me. Freelance has me even agreeing with TO THE LEFT!!! (and this is like the 3rd or 4th time this WEEK!!!)

Freelance, please keep posting on here. (but not too often) Just enough that when we are at each others throats, we can realize that, as much as we may like arguing with each other, we can still come together as a unified body in ridicule of your idiotic ideas. Fighting your stupidity is certainly the tie that binds us on this forum.

THANK-YOU!

[Ed Dantes]

My way or the highway is a pretty shaky foundation on which to build an academic institution. You guys are willing to settle for that?

Most of us are well aware that this is how the entire world works. Trust me, someday you're going to go out into the real world, you'll get a job and your boss will insist that you shake out the french fries in a certain way. This will not be up for debate. You might suggest that you explore alternate method of fry-dispensing but, having the benefit of time and experience, he will insist that you do it his way and, should you not comply, your paper hat will be littering the highway.

We need a new 'sticky' thread on FlameFans where we can submit our nominations for "Post of the Year'. Seriously.

[BJWilliams]

And now some people apparently dont know about what has been going on of recent note:

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=84008417453

[4everfsu]

And some of the comments on that facebook they are not writing because they believe the U was correct in their decision.

[LUconn]

Check out the creator of that event: We Support Liberty University College Democrats

And if we follow the link to that group: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=83986456268

We see the Admins, our friends Diaz and Dervish. Oh and 2 other guys, Rob Lalka, a Yale alum and current Duke grad student, and the creator Chris Williamson who attends Illinois State. Neither of whom have anything to do with LU. So 2 dudes who have nothing to do with LU are trying to dictate what LU does with a flood of annoying cut and paste emails.

[SuperJon]

Ha, Mark Hine should put up an "out of office" message for the next week so that they all get annoying e-mails when they e-mail him.

As for e-mailing Jerry Jr, he won't see a single one of those.

[phoenix]

BJWilliams,

I've praised the school for their missions on my blog. I don't only criticize. These are just important issues and the critical points that I passionately believe Liberty needs to change.

I'm sorry if you hate it that I've come around only when I criticize Liberty. But I'm not going to just leave issues alone because some people decide I'm "negative," or whatever. If you want to debate all the good things about Liberty, great. I'm not going to stop you. But exclusively praising the status quo isn't going to get us very far. These uncomfortable debates are necessary for Liberty to improve. So I'm not going to shy away from them. You shouldn't either.

Your substantive posts here are only on topics that criticize Liberty. The substantive posts on your blog are those that are critical of Liberty. The posts pointing out when Liberty has done something good are three to five sentences. It's pretty clear that you love to criticize Liberty; it's not clear that you actually love Liberty.

I'm all for alternative voices about Liberty -- I've said that multiple times here. I'm probably the only member of FlameFans who subscribes to your blog. And I agree with you occasionally (the disclaimer in Kevin Roose's book was a stupid decision, for example). But if you really have the university's best interests at heart, I would think you would be one of the loudest voices praising them when they get something right.

Of course, controversy = pageviews. I've learned that first hand. Criticizing Liberty University gets you more attention than talking about what's right at Liberty. But if you're going to be considered the alternative voice of Liberty students, you have to be ready to admit that LU gets it right sometimes. You don't really seem ready to do that.

[phoenix]

To just defer to a few university administrators to dictate your religion, your politics, and your morals is intellectually lazy. You guys should be more intellectually mature and think a little more independently than that.

To actually think this is what Liberty does is intellectually lazy. I actually expect better of you than this.


I'm done with this thread. If this is the level of discourse it's sunk to, I'm done. Freelance, you can keep your strawmen, burn them all down, knock them over, and get applause from your followers and fans. People who actually look into things and don't just assume that Liberty has it wrong know better. Real journalists who do their work know better -- unfortunately, there are precious few of those left.

I predict the Freelance will be gone by the middle of 2010. Few will be reading it, and the writers will realize the futility of preaching to the choir.

[Sly Fox]

Phoenix - If a tree falls in the forest ...

[olldflame]

Phoenix - If a tree falls in the forest ...

It has become my belief that the people in this world who shout the loudest about open intellectual discourse are in fact the most closed minded of all. They criticize anyone who has core beliefs they are willing to stand up for and yet cling like leeches to their own set of presuppositions. In it's most extreme form they may end up with a cult following who don't necessarily agree with them, but are somehow impressed by their bravado. Then ultimately these fall by the wayside, and they are left alone with their self-importance; howling at the moon.

[jinxy]

freelance, it didnt embarass me at all being an alum, it actually made me proud. There are plenty of other liberal schools that you would fit in just fine at. You are a joke, and so is your website that i clicked on once, that will be the last time

[ATrain]

And now for my two cents (which doesn't really matter to anyone, but I'm bored and like the sound of myself typing)

Liberty University has a right to decide which clubs it will allow to officially exist. However, just because the Democrats are not officially recognized, that does not mean they are prohibited from meeting, discussing issues, etc...they can still do that, it is allowed, meaning that Liberty is allowing a marketplace of ideas while officially taking a stand on its core beliefs based on its interpretation of the Bible. Do I agree with Liberty and all of its beliefs? NO. However, that is another debate for another day.

Carry on...

[JK37]

Freelance thinks that when we agree with a decision by Liberty's administration, we must be blindly following without considering it for ourselves. He thinks that by agreeing, we are mindless followers. He has yet to consider the over 50,000 current students who, in voluntarily selecting a Liberty education, agree on some level with the mission of the University.

Furthermore, he does not consider that we all have our own brains, and we use them. We realize we aren't just entitled to any opinion, but rather we know in our ability to defend said opinion is found the entitlement to hold one.

In short, just because we may agree with the University's administration does not mean that we have not carefully considered the details, and the ramifications, of their decision. We agree with them because we believe its right, and we certainly will not deviate from what we believe is right just because it may have a negative effect (unsubstantiated).

[ATrain]

Freelance thinks that when we agree with a decision by Liberty's administration, we must be blindly following without considering it for ourselves. He thinks that by agreeing, we are mindless followers. He has yet to consider the over 50,000 current students who, in voluntarily selecting a Liberty education, agree on some level with the mission of the University.

Furthermore, he does not consider that we all have our own brains, and we use them. We realize we aren't just entitled to any opinion, but rather we know in our ability to defend said opinion is found the entitlement to hold one.

In short, just because we may agree with the University's administration does not mean that we have not carefully considered the details, and the ramifications, of their decision. We agree with them because we believe its right, and we certainly will not deviate from what we believe is right just because it may have a negative effect (unsubstantiated).

And here is the big question, is anyone willing to ask if what we believe is right is really right?

[LUconn]

Freelance thinks that when we agree with a decision by Liberty's administration, we must be blindly following without considering it for ourselves. He thinks that by agreeing, we are mindless followers. He has yet to consider the over 50,000 current students who, in voluntarily selecting a Liberty education, agree on some level with the mission of the University.

Furthermore, he does not consider that we all have our own brains, and we use them. We realize we aren't just entitled to any opinion, but rather we know in our ability to defend said opinion is found the entitlement to hold one.

In short, just because we may agree with the University's administration does not mean that we have not carefully considered the details, and the ramifications, of their decision. We agree with them because we believe its right, and we certainly will not deviate from what we believe is right just because it may have a negative effect (unsubstantiated).

And here is the big question, is anyone willing to ask if what we believe is right is really right?

Generally, someone who has "carefully considered the details and ramifications" has asked themselves if it was right.

[ATrain]

Freelance thinks that when we agree with a decision by Liberty's administration, we must be blindly following without considering it for ourselves. He thinks that by agreeing, we are mindless followers. He has yet to consider the over 50,000 current students who, in voluntarily selecting a Liberty education, agree on some level with the mission of the University.

Furthermore, he does not consider that we all have our own brains, and we use them. We realize we aren't just entitled to any opinion, but rather we know in our ability to defend said opinion is found the entitlement to hold one.

In short, just because we may agree with the University's administration does not mean that we have not carefully considered the details, and the ramifications, of their decision. We agree with them because we believe its right, and we certainly will not deviate from what we believe is right just because it may have a negative effect (unsubstantiated).

And here is the big question, is anyone willing to ask if what we believe is right is really right?

Generally, someone who has "carefully considered the details and ramifications" has asked themselves if it was right.

I wasn't referring to the university's decision to disband the club.

[BJWilliams]

Really ATrain, anything that is wrought by humans could potentially have errors. There is a reason why Thomas Road has the ability to step in and dissolve the board, and that is if Liberty ever gets to a point where its ideology and mission and vision and things wrought out of that go counter to the Christian and scriptural basis which it was founded upon. Now have they made some questionable decisions...yeah Im sure an of it...but they want to make sure this school stays true to its mission and vision at the end of the day.