[mechildress]

Or the first words be "This is by no means over" instead of, Sorry...I was not completely honest when I was saying things that LU "said" when in fact they did not

We are still in negotiations.

Negotiations to see if you lied or not? My question is simple, did they or did they not ever say anything about being a Christian and being a Democrat?

Negotiations on being reinstated as a recognized club.

[Hold My Own]

BTW, what I told Ray Reed is that the university wishes us to draft an apology and retract some statements. I also told him that the chapter is discussing what that will look like.

wow, you know how to dig a hole and then when everyone in the world thinks you'll stop digging you go even deeper

[Hold My Own]

We are still in negotiations.

Negotiations to see if you lied or not? My question is simple, did they or did they not ever say anything about being a Christian and being a Democrat?

Negotiations on being reinstated as a recognized club.

That's what I thought...you simply got a little to big and came on here and embellished. I've asked you 2 times now on if it was said or if it wasnt and you dodging my question answers it perfectly. Please do not come on here saying things as if they are fact if indeed they are lies


I'm not sure you guys deserve to be reinstated after immediately being disassembled the first things that YOU say the university said are lies. It really makes me think you guys didnt have much ground to stand on in the first place is lies are your first line of defense. This actually reminds me a lot of the Democratic party, I've heard Obama say a lot he'll do but when it comes time to doing it something else is a top story on the news and nobody ever hears the truth.

You've done your party proud.

[JK37]

This today from www.Christianitytoday.com:

Ray Reed writes that the club is drafting an apology to the school and a retraction of some statements it made to the news media last week that accused university administrator Mark Hine of saying a person could not be both a Democrat and a Christian.

http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctpol ... _club.html

Again, I am by no means trying to be disrespectful, or rude. I simply want to know. Care to comment, Ms. Childress?

I think I have been.

BTW, what I told Ray Reed is that the university wishes us to draft an apology and retract some statements. I also told him that the chapter is discussing what that will look like.

So, the administration sets that as a prerequisite for your club regaining its officially recognized status, but your tone suggests that the club is not automatically inclined to acquiesce. Tell me, then, upon what grounds your group insists upon a compromise?

You offer no proof of the assertions you made to the public through the media (which one can only assume means there were some falsehoods within the club representations). And after all of that, the club would actually assume it has grounds to insist the administrators compromise and reinstate the group, without the group issuing so much as a retraction?!

[Hold My Own]

If you ask me the University isnt getting ENOUGH credit. I could only imagine going up against the administration (which signs my checks) head on...not only that but lie about what they said...wake up in the morning and still have a job. I would consider that a second chance at life and would be completely grateful not saying things like "they wanted us to say sorry so we're drafting it now" 99% of anyone else in the worlds version would have been "we were wrong with some of our accusations towards Liberty University and for that I'm sorry, and we are currently working on an apology to those we accused as well" not this grade school stuff of "My mom is making me say sorry, so there"

[mechildress]

I never said that we were NOT going to offer an apology, but we cannot apologize for things we did not do or statements that we did not make. We are discussing who said what and what we did not say.

I agree with Jerry Jr in that there was some misunderstandings regarding the university's position.

I will further state that I was NOT the one that created this forum, and only responded because I was asked to, by one of your own.

[mechildress]

If you ask me the University isnt getting ENOUGH credit. I could only imagine going up against the administration (which signs my checks) head on...not only that but lie about what they said...wake up in the morning and still have a job. I would consider that a second chance at life and would be completely grateful not saying things like "they wanted us to say sorry so we're drafting it now"

HMO you are guilty of the very thing the media has done! Take words and twist them to make them say what you want.

Furthermore, don't you have a personal connection to this?

[SuperJon]

Hey, don't paint everyone in this club with the same brush. Sure, some people said some stupid things, but they're not all being dumb about it. I had one friend who is pretty active in the club tell me he cared more about Liberty University than he does about the Democratic Party so if they couldn't have a club he would just roll with it and go from there.

[Hold My Own]

If you ask me the University isnt getting ENOUGH credit. I could only imagine going up against the administration (which signs my checks) head on...not only that but lie about what they said...wake up in the morning and still have a job. I would consider that a second chance at life and would be completely grateful not saying things like "they wanted us to say sorry so we're drafting it now"

HMO you are guilty of the very thing the media has done! Take words and twist them to make them say what you want.

Furthermore, don't you have a personal connection to this?

Twist words....I will quote your own that you are trying to say you did not say, and they are the very words that set EVERYONE off on here b/c they were so ignorant if LU did indeed say them.

but we cannot apologize for things we did not do or statements that we did not make.

How ignorant are you? we are talking about things YOU said just yesterday!

READ BELOW:

His final statement was that Democrats cannot possibly be Christians and therefore as long as we had the word "Democrat" in our title we would not be able to function on OR off campus.

[Ed Dantes]

Ok.

IF someone went to the media when the Club was banned and MADE UP a story about what Hines said... Then yes, the University isn't getting enough credit. And the members of the Dems Club are getting off quite easily.

"You cannot be a Christian and be a Democrat" is an absolutely awful thing to say, and if Hines said it, he should be fired.

"You cannot be a sanctioned Liberty group and support Barack Obama" isn't nearly as bad, but this is the line the admin is toeing.

If I was the LU Dems, and what went down was closer to the first statement than the second... Then heck yeah, I'd stick to my guns and not apologize.

Maybe the FF poster is dodging the question because she (she, right?) wasn't in the meeting and doesn't know what happened herself.

[Rocketfan]

Maybe im off the map here but isn't this pretty obvious......

Hine said something and someone else took that as he implied something else. Later it was stated as fact or insinuated as such. Its your basic daisy chain of communication and when emotions get involved things probably get left out.

The only thing i can say is a few lessons need to be learned. Im not sure if the e-mail went out before the meeting ( meaning did Hine e-mail this group first to tell them they were done and then set up a meeting) I think you should have a face to face on stuff like this first.

Even if no quotes were attached the Media still is going to get ahold of anything related to " Liberty and Democrats" so in hindsight getting ahead of this story would probably have been best. Its sad but thats the way Liberty has to think, be proactive to anything you can instead of reactive when you know the media is going pounce.

[Redman_424]

After hearing the truth via radio, LU's website, Jerry Falwell Jr., etc., the facts stand:

Hine's statement, "You can't be a Christian and a Democrat" was a complete off the wall lie. Chancellor Falwell just stated on the radio that [the sponsor] was in fact the one that said that (sarcastically), and Hine responded with "That's absurd."

[The sponsor], initially, accused the school of banning them from meeting on campus. Once again a lie. The club was told they could meet in the lunch room. Whether or not other areas were specifically stated, surely Tilley Center, indoor track, common areas, etc. must have been implied.

Has the school not been completely honest? The Democratic student's have even been civil about the whole deal. If I were them, I would give [the sponsor] the boot, and make the necessary changes.

No wonder the school is demanding an apology; they were lied about, out rightly, multiple times. If I were [the sponsor], I'd tuck my tail, and hope the hole isn't already too deep.

Normally I would blame the media here, but they deserve little of the blame. Isn’t it funny how when you lie, you just get screwed? Especially when you keep lying.

[LUconn]

[The sponsor], initially, accused the school of banning them from meeting on campus. Once again a lie. The club was told they could meet in the lunch room. Whether or not other areas were specifically stated, surely Tilley Center, indoor track, common areas, etc. must have been implied.

Look, unless mechilress went out of her way to make up a fake email, they did say they couldn't meet on campus. That was a quote from the very first email she got that she posted in this thread.

[Hold My Own]

I have no doubt Mechildress truly believes that those things were said. She quickly found out they were not. However that is the difference between an intelligent decision and a foolish one. Running around saying things as fact if you indeed were not there or did not actually see the email and thats when the repercussions are justified.

[LUconn]

In that email, Diaz was told that we could not organize/meet on OR off campus. The email further stated,

"No student club or organization shall be approved, recognized or permitted to meet on campus, advertise, distribute or post materials, or use University facilities if the statements, positions, doctrines, policies, constitutions, bylaws, platforms, activities or events of such club or organization, its parent, affiliate, chapter or similarly named group (even if the similarly named group is not the actual parent, affiliate or chapter) are inconsistent or in conflict with the distinctly Christian mission of the University, the Liberty Way, the Honor Code, or the policies and procedures promulgated by the University"

do you think that's not an actual quote from an email?

[Hold My Own]

Personally I believe that is an email b/t someone that met with Hine and filling Mechildress in. I believe there was a lot of paraphrasing rather than fact.


That's my personal belief...and I could however be wrong and the whole thing was made up...I find that doubtful though

[LUconn]

oh maybe it is. Seems kinda wordy to be a paraphrase.

[Hold My Own]

that shouldnt surprise you, they've been wordy with all of their responses correct or incorrect. I guess that's what fame and the cameras will do to you, make you want to say a lot more then you really should.

[Redman_424]

In that email, Diaz was told that we could not organize/meet on OR off campus. The email further stated,

"No student club or organization shall be approved, recognized or permitted to meet on campus, advertise, distribute or post materials, or use University facilities if the statements, positions, doctrines, policies, constitutions, bylaws, platforms, activities or events of such club or organization, its parent, affiliate, chapter or similarly named group (even if the similarly named group is not the actual parent, affiliate or chapter) are inconsistent or in conflict with the distinctly Christian mission of the University, the Liberty Way, the Honor Code, or the policies and procedures promulgated by the University"

do you think that's not an actual quote from an email?

In reference to the email, this "Club Code" refers to school-sponsored clubs. This club WAS school-sponsored, it went back on it's word, so the "Club Code" was referenced and enforced. The club became non-school-sponsored, moving them to nothing more than a group of people with common interests. Knowing this, the "Club Code" no longer applied to this group. Hine included the above detail in his email to explain the reason for LU choosing to no longer sponsor them.

I understand this. Hine clarified in his meeting with this group (after this email), that they may meet in the lunch room. This is what I was referring too. After this, is when the statement, "We were told we could not meet on campus" was still being thrown around. It was not until yesterday that she finally admitted to administration that Hine did in fact mention the option of meeting in the lunch room. Which if I'm not mistaken, still leaves about a week of lies. Correct?

[4everfsu]

Question is whoever lied, sponsor or student(s) should they be fired or expelled? Or should we give them a 2nd chance?
Me I would give them a second chance with the understanding any further such conduct and he or she would be shown the door.

[LUconn]

oh ok, I get it. That's like the official lingo that's in the rule books not a judgment being handed out. But in a face to face they said it was fine to meet on campus.

[JDUB]

Question is whoever lied, sponsor or student(s) should they be fired or expelled? Or should we give them a 2nd chance?
Me I would give them a second chance with the understanding any further such conduct and he or she would be shown the door.

It is more than just lying.... they didn't ask for clarification or anything. they went straight to the media and now the entire country is mad at LU for things that were never said because someone wanted their 15 minutes of fame.

The sponsor has admitted that she was told they could meet on campus by Dr. Hine. This implies that she has been lying the entire time she was saying they could not meet on campus. Her stories are not lining up.

To me, this sounds more like a smear LU/ get some tv time than a legitimate concern for the club. I do, however, know several students in the club who do not want to be associated with this conflict and, as SJ stated previously, would take the school side on the issue because they care more for the school than the club. It seems that most of the lies, conflict, and media stories have come from one source...

[JDUB]

oh ok, I get it. That's like the official lingo that's in the rule books not a judgment being handed out. But in a face to face they said it was fine to meet on campus.

correct. that was the official rule for school sanctioned clubs (which the Dems no longer are, so it does not apply to them).

[Redman_424]

Question is whoever lied, sponsor or student(s) should they be fired or expelled? Or should we give them a 2nd chance?
Me I would give them a second chance with the understanding any further such conduct and he or she would be shown the door.

Quickly reading that email without understanding it, and announcing "We're not allowed to meet on campus," may be forgiveable without consequences. However, even after meeting with Hine, the sponsor either continued to lie or chose not to make known the new understanding and truth. Directly lying to the media, and that includes leaving a past misunderstanding unclarified (for a week), is forgiveable, but NOT without consequences. Jerry Falwell Jr. has made it clear in the media, multiple times, the students are wanting to work things out. JF Jr. said today on air, "It is mostly the sponsor." I think she should be fired. Lying to the media and causing a scene nationwide does not seem like the kind of thing LU's administration would put up with.

[RagingTireFire]

I don't reference Wikipedia often but there's a useful little nugget on this page. It seems that Bill Clinton's favorite pet, Terry McAuliffe, is the one that started the uproar and, looking at this, it appears as if this whole thing was nothing more than a stunt to invigorate his gubernatorial campaign. Scroll down the page and you'll see that McAuliffe is apparently leading in the polls but nearly all of his support is in northern Virginia. He's getting killed by another candidate in other parts of the state and, right now, he's a 10-point loser to the unchallenged Republican nominee.