[LUconn]

By the way, I am an angry member of the Republican Party who has seen the party go way off course. This party used to stand for a humblle foreign policy, conservative spending and limited government. Now, it seems like they only stand for those things when the Democrats are in charge. When Bush ran the show, it was spend spend spend, war war war, patriot act patriot act patriot act,waterboarding waterboarding waterboarding

If the Republican Party needs to do anything, they need to stop being total hippocrites, clear house in leadership and get back to basic Republican Values!

Can someone please explain to my why so many people are against this? I've seen it demonstrated and how the heck is that torture? If needed information that might save this country from another 9/11 I'd shoot the terrorist in the knee cap several times or breaking fingers.

my buddy went through seal training in which he was waterboarded...he said it is torture...he would give up any info if he was ever waterboarded and was sure he was going to die even though he knew it was training.....i was on the fence on this one until he described the act to me. i would say its torture....they have medic onsight in case of a mishap.

now, would i be fine with it in certain instances? i could probably be persuaded...the problem is we dont' know how many times its been used (its been speculated that less than a dozen times)

but i would tend to lean on it being torture...

Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded like 83 times.

That one dude that you always see the photo of that looks like he's just woke up and he's got crazy amounts of chest hair was waterboarded like 130+ times before he gave up the info. I don't see how it's anymore torture than the other stuff they do like playing loud terrible music, or not letting them sleep. I have no doubt that it's terrifying. But does that constitute torture? Not in my mind.

[BJWilliams]

I prefer blowing them up. Maybe watching pieces of their comrades land a few hundred yards away might persuade them more than waterboarding

Really? Are you talking about the guys who are already blowing themselves up or the guys who send their friends out to blow themselves up?

The latter. Of course we could just take the ones we catch and subject them to watching hours and hours of Barney and Friends or The Wiggles

[RubberMallet]

Can someone please explain to my why so many people are against this? I've seen it demonstrated and how the heck is that torture? If needed information that might save this country from another 9/11 I'd shoot the terrorist in the knee cap several times or breaking fingers.

my buddy went through seal training in which he was waterboarded...he said it is torture...he would give up any info if he was ever waterboarded and was sure he was going to die even though he knew it was training.....i was on the fence on this one until he described the act to me. i would say its torture....they have medic onsight in case of a mishap.

now, would i be fine with it in certain instances? i could probably be persuaded...the problem is we dont' know how many times its been used (its been speculated that less than a dozen times)

but i would tend to lean on it being torture...

Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded like 83 times.

That one dude that you always see the photo of that looks like he's just woke up and he's got crazy amounts of chest hair was waterboarded like 130+ times before he gave up the info. I don't see how it's anymore torture than the other stuff they do like playing loud terrible music, or not letting them sleep. I have no doubt that it's terrifying. But does that constitute torture? Not in my mind.

by who....

[LUconn]

CIA I think

[Covert Hawk]

For starters, waterboarding violates current U.S. law, it can induce heart attacks, and seldom provides reliable information. The U.S. had condemned other nations for use of waterboarding.

I've been scanning for anything factual in this statement, but am coming up empty. Links, maybe?

Here is video of a former CIA agent talking about waterboarding...

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/hea ... ts-torture

[belcherboy]

I have listened to Rush Limbaugh. The point I was originally trying to make it that the party listens to Rush Limbaugh and cares what he thinks, and that scares me.

I don't think you listen to him enough. Limbaugh has been RIPPING the GOP unmercifully for the past 4 years now! He was anti-McCain, but reluctantly backed him when Obama was looking like he was going to win the Democratic nomination.

If the party listened to Limbaugh, things would be radically different right now. I'm not saying things would necessarily be better, but the GOP doesn't seem to care what Rush thinks as long as he beats down the Democrats. In my opinion (from listening to Rush), I think he is MUCH more anti-liberalism/democrats than he is pro-GOP. He preaches conservative values, and the GOP have seemed to move closer to the socialism the past year than they have to conservatives.

I'm curious, what have the GOP done the past few years that makes you think Limbaugh has had an affect on them? The Democrats have tried to make him the face of the party lately (Obama addressed that directly I believe), but what legislation/action backs that claim up?

[ALUmnus]

For starters, waterboarding violates current U.S. law, it can induce heart attacks, and seldom provides reliable information. The U.S. had condemned other nations for use of waterboarding.

I've been scanning for anything factual in this statement, but am coming up empty. Links, maybe?

Here is video of a former CIA agent talking about waterboarding...

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/hea ... ts-torture

Hmmm, didn't watch the video, but .....being a clip from Real Time with Bill Maher, on a website called CrooksAndLiars.com, with a quote from someone calling those who support waterboarding "torture apologists", and a brutally clear liberal slant with their news links and comments.....I can kind of predict the vibe that this interview will have.

[Covert Hawk]

I've been scanning for anything factual in this statement, but am coming up empty. Links, maybe?

Here is video of a former CIA agent talking about waterboarding...

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/hea ... ts-torture

Hmmm, didn't watch the video, but .....being a clip from Real Time with Bill Maher, on a website called CrooksAndLiars.com, with a quote from someone calling those who support waterboarding "torture apologists", and a brutally clear liberal slant with their news links and comments.....I can kind of predict the vibe that this interview will have.

Then go back and watch the video and listen to a man who has been a covert agent for the CIA for the last 30 years and is an expert on torture.

[belcherboy]

Limbaugh resigns as head of the GOP!! Ha ha


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[flames1971]

So he resigned from a position that he never had in the first place?

[matshark]

Let me address the 'rights' that terrorists have.

Terrorists give up their rights the minute they declare war on civilians and innocents. The Geneva Conventions cover normal combatants, but these guys aren't. These guys are the thugs that do what they please and then laugh at you because you're constrained by 'rules' that they aren't.

Terrorists have a right to a lengthy interrogation followed by a speedy execution.
Terrorists have a right to stop committing acts of violence on innocent people and civilians.
Terrorists have a right to die in such a manner as to deny them entry into their 'paradise.'

Those are the rights terrorists have. Why do they not have other rights? Simple this: They chose to deny those rights to others, and in so doing, give up those rights themselves. That's how the rights thing works. You recognize them for other people, and in so doing, have them recognized for you.

Only a person who clearly does not understand the type of enemy we face would argue for rights for legitimate terrorists. (And i don't mean everyone listed on DHS lists that is anti-abortion, or anti-illegal immigration) Go ahead, argue that terrorists deserve lawyers, etc... Expose yourself as a fool. If they are given rights, I support giving them the EXACT SAME rights they give their prisoners. NONE!

[Covert Hawk]

Some food for thought for those who think that torture is necessary for the defense of this country

Matthew Alexander, author of "How to Break a Terrorist" used non-torture methods of interrogation in Iraq with much success. In fact, one cooperative jihadist told him, "I thought you would torture me, and when you didn't, I decided that everything I was told about Americans was wrong. That's why I decided to cooperate." Alexander also found that in Iraq "the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq." Alexander’s experiences unequivocally demonstrate that losing our humanity is not beneficial or necessary in fighting terror.

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=88

[Covert Hawk]

For starters, waterboarding violates current U.S. law, it can induce heart attacks, and seldom provides reliable information. The U.S. had condemned other nations for use of waterboarding.

I've been scanning for anything factual in this statement, but am coming up empty. Links, maybe?

Here is a link to back up more of my "facts"

it is illegal in the United States and illegal under Geneva Conventions. Simulated drowning, or water boarding, was not considered an exception to these laws when it was used by the Japanese against US soldiers in World War II. In fact, we hanged Japanese officers for war crimes in 1945 for water boarding. Its status as torture has already been decided by our own courts under this precedent. To look the other way now, when Americans do it, is the very definition of hypocrisy.

In addition, information obtained under duress is incredibly unreliable, which is why it is not admissible in a court of law. Legally valid information is freely given by someone of sound mind and body. Someone in excruciating pain, or brought close to death by some horrific procedure is not in any state of mind to give reliable information, and certainly no actions should be taken solely based upon it.

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=88

[El Scorcho]

Let me address the 'rights' that terrorists have.

Terrorists give up their rights the minute they declare war on civilians and innocents. The Geneva Conventions cover normal combatants, but these guys aren't. These guys are the thugs that do what they please and then laugh at you because you're constrained by 'rules' that they aren't.

Terrorists have a right to a lengthy interrogation followed by a speedy execution.
Terrorists have a right to stop committing acts of violence on innocent people and civilians.
Terrorists have a right to die in such a manner as to deny them entry into their 'paradise.'

Those are the rights terrorists have. Why do they not have other rights? Simple this: They chose to deny those rights to others, and in so doing, give up those rights themselves. That's how the rights thing works. You recognize them for other people, and in so doing, have them recognized for you.

Only a person who clearly does not understand the type of enemy we face would argue for rights for legitimate terrorists. (And i don't mean everyone listed on DHS lists that is anti-abortion, or anti-illegal immigration) Go ahead, argue that terrorists deserve lawyers, etc... Expose yourself as a fool. If they are given rights, I support giving them the EXACT SAME rights they give their prisoners. NONE!

Thanks, Jack Bauer.

[RagingTireFire]

Here is a link to back up more of my "facts"

it is illegal in the United States and illegal under Geneva Conventions. Simulated drowning, or water boarding, was not considered an exception to these laws when it was used by the Japanese against US soldiers in World War II. In fact, we hanged Japanese officers for war crimes in 1945 for water boarding. Its status as torture has already been decided by our own courts under this precedent. To look the other way now, when Americans do it, is the very definition of hypocrisy.

In addition, information obtained under duress is incredibly unreliable, which is why it is not admissible in a court of law. Legally valid information is freely given by someone of sound mind and body. Someone in excruciating pain, or brought close to death by some horrific procedure is not in any state of mind to give reliable information, and certainly no actions should be taken solely based upon it.

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=88

That's an opinion piece. This no more fact than what you provided earlier.

[Covert Hawk]

Here is a link to back up more of my "facts"

it is illegal in the United States and illegal under Geneva Conventions. Simulated drowning, or water boarding, was not considered an exception to these laws when it was used by the Japanese against US soldiers in World War II. In fact, we hanged Japanese officers for war crimes in 1945 for water boarding. Its status as torture has already been decided by our own courts under this precedent. To look the other way now, when Americans do it, is the very definition of hypocrisy.

In addition, information obtained under duress is incredibly unreliable, which is why it is not admissible in a court of law. Legally valid information is freely given by someone of sound mind and body. Someone in excruciating pain, or brought close to death by some horrific procedure is not in any state of mind to give reliable information, and certainly no actions should be taken solely based upon it.

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=88

That's an opinion piece. This no more fact than what you provided earlier.

it is illegal in the United States and illegal under Geneva Conventions.

That doesn't sound like an opinion to me and neither does this...

we hanged Japanese officers for war crimes in 1945 for water boarding. Its status as torture has already been decided by our own courts under this precedent.

Of course if you don't want to listen to a Congressman, then listen to a former CIA agent...

Still don't think Waterboarding is torture, then ask Mancow what he thinks...

[Covert Hawk]

Actually better yet ask Atheist Christopher Hitchens what he thinks...

[GoUNCA]

This whole thread seems like a long way away from...

"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you"

Matthew 5:38-42, NIV

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you."

Luke 6:27-31. NIV

But that guy probably doesn't know what he was talking about because it was just his biased opinion....

[4everfsu]

Like I would care what he thinks . Heck he is wrong about God, wonder what else he could be wrong about

[ALUmnus]

Here is a link to back up more of my "facts"
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=88

That's an opinion piece. This no more fact than what you provided earlier.

it is illegal in the United States and illegal under Geneva Conventions.

That doesn't sound like an opinion to me and neither does this...

we hanged Japanese officers for war crimes in 1945 for water boarding. Its status as torture has already been decided by our own courts under this precedent.

Of course if you don't want to listen to a Congressman, then listen to a former CIA agent...

Still don't think Waterboarding is torture, then ask Mancow what he thinks...

So under this theory, Mancow, Hitchens, and military personnel undergoing training are all being illegally tortured, willingly. Why are their "torturers" not being prosecuted and thrown into prison? If waterboarding fit nicely under the definition of torture, do you really think someone would willingly administer it to a civilian like Mancow if there were permanent physical side-effects or chance of death? Would Mancow have undergone that if he thought there was a good chance he'd die or have permanent physical harm? Would the military risk killing all of its soldiers-in-training if this were the case? Nope.

You really need to start differentiating between fact and opinion, because most people's opinions are not factual (and I'm not excluding myself from that).

[RagingTireFire]

That's an opinion piece. This no more fact than what you provided earlier.

it is illegal in the United States and illegal under Geneva Conventions.

That doesn't sound like an opinion to me and neither does this...

we hanged Japanese officers for war crimes in 1945 for water boarding. Its status as torture has already been decided by our own courts under this precedent.

Of course if you don't want to listen to a Congressman, then listen to a former CIA agent...

Still don't think Waterboarding is torture, then ask Mancow what he thinks...

Good Lord, son, I hope you haven't graduated yet. Before you go out into the real world you must learn that just because someone phrases something as fact in an opinion piece does not automatically make that statement fact, particularly if the writer of said piece is a politician.

[Covert Hawk]

That's an opinion piece. This no more fact than what you provided earlier.

it is illegal in the United States and illegal under Geneva Conventions.

That doesn't sound like an opinion to me and neither does this...

we hanged Japanese officers for war crimes in 1945 for water boarding. Its status as torture has already been decided by our own courts under this precedent.

Of course if you don't want to listen to a Congressman, then listen to a former CIA agent...

Still don't think Waterboarding is torture, then ask Mancow what he thinks...

Good Lord, son, I hope you haven't graduated yet. Before you go out into the real world you must learn that just because someone phrases something as fact in an opinion piece does not automatically make that statement fact, particularly if the writer of said piece is a politician.

Good Lord, son, I hope you haven't graduated yet. If you are going to go through life dismissing factual statements just because it doesn't fit into your nice little political philosophy, then don't expect anybody to take you seriously. Look, if you responded with a video of Oliver North talking about how it is not torture, I would at least respect you. But dismissing what a congressman, CIA agent (who aren't politicians, by the way) and a radio jock who thought he could last 30 seconds and then gave up after FIVE, just because you don't like there conclusions. Come on.
[/quote]

[Covert Hawk]

That's an opinion piece. This no more fact than what you provided earlier.

it is illegal in the United States and illegal under Geneva Conventions.

That doesn't sound like an opinion to me and neither does this...

we hanged Japanese officers for war crimes in 1945 for water boarding. Its status as torture has already been decided by our own courts under this precedent.

Of course if you don't want to listen to a Congressman, then listen to a former CIA agent...

Still don't think Waterboarding is torture, then ask Mancow what he thinks...

So under this theory, Mancow, Hitchens, and military personnel undergoing training are all being illegally tortured, willingly. Why are their "torturers" not being prosecuted and thrown into prison? If waterboarding fit nicely under the definition of torture, do you really think someone would willingly administer it to a civilian like Mancow if there were permanent physical side-effects or chance of death? Would Mancow have undergone that if he thought there was a good chance he'd die or have permanent physical harm? Would the military risk killing all of its soldiers-in-training if this were the case? Nope.

You really need to start differentiating between fact and opinion, because most people's opinions are not factual (and I'm not excluding myself from that).

1. Because they were willingly being tortured you said it yourself
2. There are chances of Death, it can induce a heart attack. (see said video above)
3. Mancow lost a bet, and that is why he had to do it.
4. You can say that about any training in the military, should Army rangers not jump out of planes because the parachutes might not open.

We prosecuted Japan for waterboarding during WWII. It can induce heart attacks. It seldom provides reliable information.

If you can provide a legitimate source to dispute any of the above claims, then present it.

[ALUmnus]

Is Covert Hawk one of those local NewInAdvance comment section regulars? Because that's the first thing that comes to mind every time I read one of your posts.

[Covert Hawk]

Is Covert Hawk one of those local NewInAdvance comment section regulars? Because that's the first thing that comes to mind every time I read one of your posts.

No, good try though! My name is Robert Arthur, I have my bachelor's of Science in Accounting from LU. Graduated in 08. Working on my master's degree, also working full time as a staff accountant at Shelton & Company, CPAs. Lived in Lynchburg my whole life, unfortunately.

My dad has worked at LU for 25 years, was a good friend of Jerry Falwell.

Just thought I would get this all out in the open, so you can stop trying to classify me as something that I am not.