[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

I thought Sly's response was measured and accurate. The only thing I would clarify is that in fact because of Jeremy's injury EVERY MINUTE played by a McKay recruit this year was played by a Freshman, and after Jesse reinjured his ankle and went to the bench after 9 minutes, there were actually 4 players unavailable. Of the 4 non-McKay recruits who played this year, 2 were not recruited at all, but came into the program as walkons, and one only played about half the year due to injury.

TBGBG, I'm not going to take the time to go back and see if you made any predictions for this year's team or what they were, but I would be surprised if they were not exceeded, as were most of ours. It is true that the conventional expectation for an incoming coach is that they should succeed when they have their own recruits in place. It is NOT true that championships are expected when all of those recruits are Freshmen.

I dont remember my prediction either, but I know this exceeded what I thought would happen, but OldFlame I think you missed the point. What I am saying is everyone had low expectations because they were so young, but we got to see that they WERE GOOD and have the ability to win and the way we lost because a lack of a coach. If we left it all on the floor and just lost its different.

If we acknowledge that we were outcoached Thursday night, let's not forget RMK is not the first LU coach Dugger has outsmarted in the conference tournament. You are blaming him for the loss to VMI because he is not a good enough coach, and "these guys are GOOD" Let's not forget that recruiting is probably the most important role for any college coach, and the freshman class that is mainly responsible for making this year exciting and leading us to believe we may be able to win it this year is here because of Richie McKay. They ARE good, but they ARE Freshmen, and it's simply not realistic to say that because they have talent and potential that it's all the fault of poor coaching that we didn't win a championship.

I said we laid down and quit... The players quit too, maybe i didnt make that clear. I also know the coach about which you speak of... but we didnt lose by 20 and 40 the week before. Duggar is great and very smart, but it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out what they were going to do. And VMI is probably smart enough to change it up but we are putting them back on their heels and not just letting them run all over us.

[LUconn]

That is a little concerning that they totally embarrassed is at home and rubbed our face in it one week and we bent over and took it again a week later.

[thepostman]

Man, I thought the Forum would erupt over this post, and it hasn't... so in addition to giving some props to the moderators for their tolerance, I must also give a bunch to you guys who have allowed tbgtbg to say his piece, giving him his due for being a fan that wants LU to succeed.

I'm extremely impressed with you guys on this.

like others have said..its not the opinions that get people upset, its when certain posters just show up on here after we lose big...TBGBG is always around posting after games...I don't always agree with him..but he has a different perspective and that is fine...I would be bored if I agreed with everything everybody said all the time...

and to TBGBG I hate you.....because you're going to Florida

[olldflame]

I think it's really presumptuous to say that because a team or a coach's response to adversity is not what you perceive it should be that they "quit". It's a very easy thing to type on your computer. You're still a student TBGBG, right? And based on the "shout outs" you gave to players here, it would seem that you know them personally. Have you told them face to face that they quit?

[TylerBakersGonnaBGreat]

I think it's really presumptuous to say that because a team or a coach's response to adversity is not what you perceive it should be that they "quit". It's a very easy thing to type on your computer. You're still a student TBGBG, right? And based on the "shout outs" you gave to players here, it would seem that you know them personally. Have you told them face to face that they quit?

If you dont think they quit, youre blind. The only one that I have talked to about the game is Tyler, and yes I told him. Other than that I dont talk about the game to anyone else. I told the staff I know that they quit.

[Ed Dantes]

I didn't think they quit until the game was out of hand, which happened when he decided not to make shots or run a defense that effectively guarded the three point shot.

[thepostman]

I think they may have given up with about 5 minutes left...but if guys who were open would not have been so freaking scared to take shots then it could've been a completely different game...that is what frustrated me about this team pretty much all year long...is nobody but the main 3 guys looked like they wanted to score...there were glimpses here and there of what could be with certain players...but overall it was always a problem...and that is on the players...a coach can't force those guys to shoot...

not to say coach mckay was perfect...nobody is and he needs improvement...sometimes I wish that we could have a coach that has some of RD's traits and has some of McKay's traits...that would be a great balance....

anyways...I do think TBGBG went a bit far...but I completely understand his frustration

[SuperJon]

I still claim Ritchie wasn't what ran BJ off. Liberty wasn't for him. If we can't accept that and not put the blame on anyone (it can be thrown to both this coach and the coach that recruited him, depending on which side you look at it) then we're never going to get anywhere. Liberty is not for everyone.

[dompennix]

I still claim Ritchie wasn't what ran BJ off. Liberty wasn't for him. If we can't accept that and not put the blame on anyone (it can be thrown to both this coach and the coach that recruited him, depending on which side you look at it) then we're never going to get anywhere. Liberty is not for everyone.

Yeah, BJ hated Liberty. He told me that when he decided to leave he was ready to get out of LU

[Schfourteenteen]

If we acknowledge that we were outcoached Thursday night, let's not forget RMK is not the first LU coach Dugger has outsmarted in the conference tournament.

I know TBGBG already addressed this, but you cant defend RMc by saying RD did the same thing. We cannot compare RMc to RD because that does 0 good. We judge McKay by the coach he is supposed to be, not the coach who preceeded him.

With that said Ill contend the minute Holmes hit a 3 to go up 4 responding to ours the game was over. A lack of personnel hurt, but I can definitely see the lack of heart when we were down. It makes me wonder how much the press got worked on, because with a new personnel set(Spence, Johnny) we seemed unable to break it at all. I also never saw Brolin at midcourt in the center like the first game, which always broke it. Maybe they just adjusted to it but thats why I have 0 BB IQ.

Either way Id say overall it was a good year. Could we have done better? Absolutely. We missed opportunities. And the team/coach should get the blame for that. But in the end, it looks like were going the right way. Not in a steep incline like Rocco's bunch is going, but were getting there.

[g-webb1994]

The art of the paragraph should be explored further.

Three words why y'all tanked in the second half.......No Jesse Sanders.

That kid is the glue of your team, and is going to be a better player than his brother was by his junior year. I saw his brother alot at G-W, and that is saying something, because Thomas was an absolute stud.

Be thankful you have McKay, a class act and a fine coach. I'd trade ya for him in a millisecond.

[CMII]

I thought Sly's response was measured and accurate. The only thing I would clarify is that in fact because of Jeremy's injury EVERY MINUTE played by a McKay recruit this year was played by a Freshman, and after Jesse reinjured his ankle and went to the bench after 9 minutes, there were actually 4 players unavailable. Of the 4 non-McKay recruits who played this year, 2 were not recruited at all, but came into the program as walkons, and one only played about half the year due to injury.

TBGBG, I'm not going to take the time to go back and see if you made any predictions for this year's team or what they were, but I would be surprised if they were not exceeded, as were most of ours. It is true that the conventional expectation for an incoming coach is that they should succeed when they have their own recruits in place. It is NOT true that championships are expected when all of those recruits are Freshmen.

I dont remember my prediction either, but I know this exceeded what I thought would happen, but OldFlame I think you missed the point. What I am saying is everyone had low expectations because they were so young, but we got to see that they WERE GOOD and have the ability to win and the way we lost because a lack of a coach. If we left it all on the floor and just lost its different.

If we acknowledge that we were outcoached Thursday night, let's not forget RMK is not the first LU coach Dugger has outsmarted in the conference tournament. You are blaming him for the loss to VMI because he is not a good enough coach, and "these guys are GOOD" Let's not forget that recruiting is probably the most important role for any college coach, and the freshman class that is mainly responsible for making this year exciting and leading us to believe we may be able to win it this year is here because of Richie McKay. They ARE good, but they ARE Freshmen, and it's simply not realistic to say that because they have talent and potential that it's all the fault of poor coaching that we didn't win a championship.

Didn't we lose by 1 pt to what was arguably a better VMI team than this one. VMI beat a real good HPU by 10 and lost to the 22nd in the nation Winthrop team on the last shot by 3. No 57 point routs. Recruitng was such that Chris Lang was saying the returners should be favored to win a BS Championship. RD was recruitng grest freshmen with Smitty, Baker and BJ to foundationally build the next level of the program. The nigerian connection was in place and things would have blossomed. but JB's ego demanded that he be the one to get the credit. So now we revel with the results less than those we use to curse.
And yes I obviously am not supportive of JB regime in way shape or fashion. He hurt good families. I will respect quality not weak schedules in a weakened BSC. so for you to try and say RD is viewed less favorably because of me is a bigger joke. The man was a flame through and through. He took over a joke and had us in the NCAA Tournament in two years with no athletic department support compared to what is spent today on facilities and promotions. But guys like oldflame get a pass on continuing to try an shape a sunshine blessed future with hey we are freshmen or some other lame rationale as to why our guys laid down when the biggest game of the year are on the line and all of us have sore rearends.

[jcmanson]

The art of the paragraph should be explored further.

Three words why y'all tanked in the second half.......No Jesse Sanders.

That kid is the glue of your team, and is going to be a better player than his brother was by his junior year. I saw his brother alot at G-W, and that is saying something, because Thomas was an absolute stud.

Be thankful you have McKay, a class act and a fine coach. I'd trade ya for him in a millisecond.

And their younger brother, John Caleb, has committed to us. He's finishing up his junior year of high school right now, and he is a Jesse Sanders who can score. 2 years of Jesse, Seth and John Caleb in the backcourt should be more than fun to watch.

[ToTheLeft]

Can we all do ourselves a favor and not even read CMII's post? I know I didn't read most of it, and would encourage that, if you did read it, don't reply. Just not worth it.

[olldflame]

My "outsmarted" statement was more a compliment to Dugger than a knock on either our present or former coach. So many cherry picked facts, half truths and downright fabrications in CMII's post, but his agenda is clear. I don't mind the basketball related BS so much, but the constant beating of the "families were hurt" drum is just ridiculous. No employee is entitled to a job for life, and least of all a coach.

[paradox]

I'm just wondering if we would have been "outsmarted" with a healthy Jesse Sanders in our backcourt. I thought that our guys fought pretty hard given the circumstances.

[grm]

Some people (like me) really love our former coach, and some do not. There is a lot of emotion going on whenever this topic rises to the surface from where it usually resides, which is just below the surface. If the basketball team doesn't finish high in the BS, it ends up being a vindication of sorts for those in the former category, and I'll admit, it can be a hard feeling to fight off. After he served as interim, and wasn't hired, then left for his wilderness wanderings, I was the guy (or one of them) who kept telling him that he belonged at LU, and not to give up on it. This was his dream job, and I thought it was a great fit. Obviously, others didn't, & I know that it wasn't about his record. JB even said that if he had won the BS, it wouldn't have been enough to keep his job. So it becomes a battle continually played out. (McKay has nothing to do with the equation, he's simply the guy that was hired.)

I have the solution. In my mind, he is like Patton without a division. Most of us are Christians. What about us all praying that he gets a good job offer? If he got another good job, that would take his supporters in a completely different direction,
and I'll bet a lot of this stuff would be eliminated.

NOTE: This brilliant thought is an unauthorized comment from me & me alone. I might even get chastized for it.

[Sly Fox]

I've prayed for him to find the right job ever since the change occurred. I was even hopeful he might land an opening here in Houston awhile back. Consider me in on the praying endeavor.

[grm]

Thank you, Sly

[olldflame]

I for one appreciate the reminder to pray for our brother in Christ grm. While it would be presumptious for us to assume we know God's will for his life, he certainly has a passion for coaching basketball, and I hope and pray the right opportunity will come soon.

[grm]

Right on all counts, Old Flame, & thank you.

[thepostman]

I was one of the few that really liked RD and the passion he brought to the game...I think the problem has come from different stories that have floated around that nobody can truly confirm or deny...either way I hope nothing but the best for RD...my favorite college sports moment was the 2004 BS Championship game in the Vines and I remember how loved RD was then by the students...I don't really know what changed, sometimes I wish it hadn't...but I really like coach McKay and think he's a great fit for our program

[Hold My Own]

I like RD too and he's a friend but we are no longer talking about VMI so start a thread if anyone wants to continue this. I've seen these discussions play out and its rarely pretty!