[bigsmooth]

I believe that Barber is the right man for the job; however, he has huge obstacles to overcome. Many if not most of the alumni are apathetic toward LU sports. They never had to "pay" to get into games. So, for many, a financial association was never established or fostered with the Ath Dept. This has helped lead to an ethos that Barber will have a hard time breaking down. This a problem that pervades LU. From our days as students, we saw that when the going got tough, Falwell reached out to the same small number of friends to help. Very rarely were students asked to give - I concede that some eras were asked more frequently. I have found this to be the case as an alumnus. As such, we were and continue to be somewhat robbed of an opportunity to have some sense of ownership. Sure, Falwell will take your money, but there is a lack of organization to it. The Alumni Assoc has a place to enter your credit card info, but how about providing some giving levels with benefits, a nice quarterly magazine (if it is "The World's Most Exciting University", then why do we only get irregular, skimpy newsletters?), etc. (Quid pro quo - Cynical? Yes, but this is the real world...altruism only goes so far) While the Flames Club is more organized, its donor base will have to expand by a large margin.

i hear what you are saying and BTW, welcome to the board. the only way to move forward is to change the atmosphere and the culture of liberty athletics. this was seen when the largest crowd ever came out to see the spring football game. this is also evidenced by SJ leading the charge for the student flames club or LUnatics as i like to say. also evidenced is the growth of the flames club thus far this year. excitement is the highest ever with liberty athletics and with jeff barber leading the way, i really feel things are on the upswing. the alumni association is way ahead of what they used to be, and have made vast improvements already. instead of complaining or being cynical, why not send your concerns to the head of the alumni association and im sure they would be open to the suggestions. the only way to make change is to stir the pot a bit. LU is really turning the corner and i feel like things will continue to improve. we are still a young university, so mthe alumni pochets are not that deep, but every little bit helps. just my 2 cents.

[Stevev]

That was a long post but some valid points were brought up. How can we think 1A when we compete in the worst conference 1AA has to offer and last year we didn't even win a single game vs a 1AA opponent. I would rather see LU become the next McNeese State, Delaware, App State, Furman, Georgia Southern, or Montana which contend for the playoffs every year and have a nice fan base since they are successful where they are. As stated before lets not become the next Buffalo or Louisiana Monroe. If we make the move lets do so after years of success vs the best that 1AA has to offer.

[4everfsu]

As I said before we can only move up based on two things, winning consistently and having the money. If we win consistently and with the landscape changes for conferences we could be invited in, but again like Al Davis says rings true "Win baby"
While at 1-AA I want to be the best in whatever conference we are in, but I want to move up to 1-A eventually. Will we pay our dues moving up, sure. But what have we been doing the last 10 years in 1-AA? Getting our butts kicked and not making money. I would like to see us get in at least Conference USA one day. At least we would be getting better TV exposure, more money.

[Stevev]

The Sunbelt conference would be okay too. Maybe something we are looking at down the road.

[Sly Fox]

I agree with about 90% of what our new friend brings to the table. He clearly has some experience to back up his statements despite his clear lack in judgement to spend even a day in Aggieland. But I digress.

For the record, FAU did go ridiculously crazy in expenditures starting up their football program. They promised Schnellenberger the moon including a domed stadium in order to get him to take on the project. Obviously they made some mistakes along the way. Hopefully we are taking a slightly different approach.

Maybe I am nuts, but I just am hearing too many rumbles on both the I-A and I-AA levels about some significant realignment coming soon that will likely result in a new eastern I-A league. There are enough I-AAs in the region looking to move up to not make it somewhat realistic. And a new regionally based I-A league similar in budgetary expenditures to say the MAC would not be as expensive as some of you seem to think. Obviously the biggest issue would be the equivalencies for the 85 scholie limit. That would be a serious challenge to our resources. But my premise is that it would be easier for us to get larger national contributions as a I-A as opposed to a I-AA. A large Christian philanthropist with no ties to the school somewhere in Wyoming is not going to have much interest in ponying up to a I-AA program. But its easier to grasp the vision for donors from coast-to-coast when you are on the highest level (I know, we can start an argument about whether low-tier I-A is really the highest level).

There is ZERO chance of us moving up to I-A as an indy. If there is one thing experience has taught us is that it doesn't work. I don't think there is anyone on the mountain who really sees this as an option. It may ultimately be our only choice once the time arrives for us to step up, but I sincerely doubt that will be the case.

I think we have to keep two things in mind:

1. If Jerry says we are going I-A it is inevitable. Instead of belaboring the topic of its wisdom, I think our time is better spent finding a way to make it work. Frankly, there has never been a school with LU's unique set of circumstances in our position. Obviously if we had been more effective at the I-AA level this probably be a rah-rah session. But these are the cards we have been dealt and we need to find a way to play them best to our advantage.

2. Our mission in going I-A is different than just about every school in the nation outside of BYU. They are probably the only example of a school using athletics for primary purpose of spreading their message and their branding to America to advance their religious purpose. Please don't bring Baylor, Notre Dame, BC or any of the others to the table. They all have schools that are first & foremost strong academic institutions who use sports as not only sources of revenue but as branding. But I don't see the Bears, Irish or Eagles being as forward in their religious expression through sports as we try to be. So we have a greater purpose in pursuing this I-A goal than say our successful I-AA friends at Delaware, JMU, Appy St or Georgia Southern.

With all that said, we to make some significant changes in how we operate to make I-A not only feasible but also a success. And by success I do not mean BCS bowls. I mean be competitive in our schedule and advancing the Liberty brand in order to attract the brightest Christian students from across the nation and around the globe.

OK, I'm stepping off my soapbox. I admit I have serious reservations of my own about the wisdom of the decision. I agree that I'd love to see us be successful at the I-AA level before we make the move. There is no denying that winning would grease the wheels of the transition. That's why I am so supportive of the direction we have taken with the new staff in the AD and the football office. The dream would be for Coach Rocco and Barber to both have unrivaled success on the field and in fundraising.

[Stevev]

I think that LU has to use its uniqely Christian influence and values as an advantage rather than a disadvantage if we are to think about moving up. We have to get the very best of all the Christian athletes out there to at least consider coming to LU. Easier said than done of course but it is entirely possible within reasonable time constraints. Of course we have to pick up our fundraising and most of all be successful with the schedule we are dealt with.

[Purple Haize]

Sly, nice thought process, but.........
1. So just because Jerry says something it should be done? The litany of failures and successes makes that an iffy presupposition. Not to mention a tad Cultish. Kool Aid anyone? The powers tha be HAVE mentioned going independent D1a under the auspisces of not having to divvy up bowl money. (Direct quote) Jerry has the Bible down pat but the realities of what it takes to be a D1a (current status) have not settled in on him yet. I would say SPEND time talking Jerry and the powers that be OUT of the move. Sell the positives of being a power house HERE. Unfortunately, I fear you are correct and all those WWJD braclets around LU just stand for What Would Jerry Desire.
2. I'd go easy on the BYU analogies. A vast majority of their athletes are not outstanding examples of Mormonism. They have had to adjust their recruiting and admittance philosophies to be in a moe positive position to bring in athletes that can win games. Being mormon is a bonus. Not sure, but once again fear we will, LU wants to go down that road to make the D1A level.

[A.G.]

A conference affiliation would be a must. Not just for football but for other sports. I don't know the answer for what I am getting ready to ask, so it is asked in all seriousness:
Does the fact LU is "Jerry Falwell's school" hurt in finding ANY conference affilation outside of the Big South? Would that actually hinder LU in making a move to I-A?

[SuperJon]

Yes.

[Baldspot]

I agree with Sly on the need to find a way. I also agree with Stevev that being competitive in I-AA would be nice but we've been IAA for so long it just doesn't excite me to stay I-AA any more.
Realignments could make this an easier task but I think we need to think of current I-AA programs that also want to make the jump and start a new conference.

[4everfsu]

I dont think being Jerry's school will hinder us going to 1-A

[Sly Fox]

Our connections to Dr. J have kept us from some conference options (i.e. A-10), but when it comes to I-A I don't see it as much of a hindrance.

And to the purple one, I didn't say just because Jerry wants us to go I-A we should walk lockstep. I just said that with him publicly making it known, it is going to happen. Period. You've been around campus enough to know that is how things work on the mountain for better or worse.

As for BYU, I wasn't saying we should patten our program after the Mormons. I was just stating that they were the only school with a similar purpose in pursuing I-A football. You will never see me buddying up to the boys in Provo.

[Chris Lang]

Liberty has been I-AA for so long? Really, it's only been a hair shy of 20 years. The reason the level excited no one is because, until recently, there's been no true carrot to chase. No conference championship. No chance at making the playoffs. That's changed, somewhat at least, in the last few years. The Big South has certainly become more competitive, and you can thank Coastal Carolina for that. Coastal's quick success has challenged everyone in the league to improve, and everyone has followed suit. Gardner-Webb opened a new facility. Liberty and VMI underwent massive upgrades. Charleston Southern actually tried to get to 63 scholarships and compete at a high level.

That's off topic, though. As far as the success is necessary to move up theory. I think the "success" doesn't necessarily have to come in the form of wins and losses. Certainly, you have to be competitive. But you don't have to be 10-1 every year to move up. But you have to build a program of some sort, and Rocco is really building from scratch here.

Karcher had no sense of connecting with the community. He didn't want to speak at the Lynchburg Sports Club. He didn't go out and press flesh. He didn't show a lot of outward excitement. It seemed to me that under Karcher, the program existed, but no one in Lynchburg really gave a flip. Rocco and Barber both very much want to change that mindset, and they know it's on them to reach out to the community.

You need to get to a level where 10-15,000 fans consistently come out to games. The 2,800 that showed up for the Coastal game last year ain't gonna cut it. I understand the team stunk, but even low-level I-As manage to get 10-20K out to their games on a regular basis. (Well, not Temple, but that's a different world).

The thing you have to remember about a potential move is the financial commitment involved. FAU operated deep in the red for years and only got back in the black by playing four money games a year in football. For 22 extra scholarships, you're talking $350,000-$400,000. Considering the LU athletics department was several million in the red, that's not going to be a small number to overcome.

Build a foundation. Build a fan base. Give people a reason to come to games and establish a trust with the community. If those things happen, a I-A move could be feasible well down the road. But LU is at the very start of this process, so don't expect miracles right away.

[Stevev]

20 years ago! Has it been that long. Sure doesn't seem like it. It seems as if only 20 years ago that Morgan Hout built a solid foundation for the team to complete agains't the best that 1AA had to offer only to see LU throw it all away. Now we have to start from scratch something that was done 20 years ago. Sure LU can turn things around for a couple of years but the question is can LU maintain that same competitiveness, and fan support m that was present during the Hout years to enable to get to that 1A status. It is frustrating to know that LU screwed things up in the past but I guess we have to realize the cards we were dealt and move on in a positive direction.

[A.G.]

Great post, Chris.

[PeterParker]

I enjoy reading all of the sports history of LU that had widespread fan support and the beginnings of success (i.e. the basketball thread.)

My knowledge of the years previous to the mid 90's football program are somewhat limited. It would be cool to see a sort of timeline and learn of the years LU was actually decent (these Hout years you guys speak of.) Also, any theories on how we progressively went from somewhat promising to abysmally bleak in a generational span (20 years) (besides the obvious neglible coaching/recruiting, etc.--was the attention of the top decision makers misplaced during these years or just a run of bad luck on the deals they decided to make?)

[SuperJon]

This thread is ovah. No more I-A after December.

[A.G.]

was the attention of the top decision makers misplaced during these years or just a run of bad luck on the deals they decided to make?)

Or more accurately, were the top decision makers folks who had no business making athletic decisions?? It almost seems like the best hires have been when the committee has been a committee of ONE.

[Purple Haize]

was the attention of the top decision makers misplaced during these years or just a run of bad luck on the deals they decided to make?)

Or more accurately, were the top decision makers folks who had no business making athletic decisions?? It almost seems like the best hires have been when the committee has been a committee of ONE.

I agree with the sentiment but not the verbage. The problem has been that the decision was made by ONE here at LU, and that person may or may not have the best handle on athletic decisions.

[A.G.]

OK, correct me if I am wrong here. Were not both Hankinson and Karcher committee hires (of course, with JF having the final say)? Seems that the hirings of Coach Dunton and Rocco were done solely from the friendly confines of the mansion. As far as the regular athletic dept decisions, hopefully the school now has in place someone who is more than just a figurehead AD.

[Libertine]

Dunton was strictly a Jerry hire and it got him in trouble with the board. Ever since then, he's had to be very circumspect about using the hiring process. Rocco was who Jerry wanted but he still had to be vetted out through a number of advisors.

[A.G.]

My point was, I "think" the other two hire were full blown search committees--and they were busts.

[Purple Haize]

Karcher was hired b/c 1) SR's retirement was sort of a suprise and 2) Jerry's first choice said no/was unavailable. BTW, Morgan was let go via executive decision as well. (As were VB and Tennis coaches.) Rocco was also not JF's first or second choice. Hankinson was hired after Jerry gave "The Ultimatum" to Meyer and RD was supposed to get the job. That didn't happen for various reasons. Coach Green was a committee hire and has done quite well. Getting rid of KG (twice) was a JF decision as was hiring Park.
So for better or worse JF has a long track record of making athletic decisions

[Chris Lang]

You people should be happy that JF's first two choices fell through. Both would have been suspect hires.

[TallyW]

No names Lang? Disappointing.