[RubberMallet]

That is not entirely true. If it takes Hillary to win this election, which, quite frankly "The Dream Team" (O the cliches....) would knock McCain flat on his bum--then Barack will pick her. I honestly believe that. We could argue this for hours, we'll never truly know.

this is crazy you drank too much of the hillary koolaid....

As far as judging a person by his associates.....I somewhat agree. I DO believe that Rev. Wright was way out of line with many of the statements that he has made. Please do not crucify me for what I'm about to post...I assure you that I am making NO COMPARISON whatsoever....BUT....

even our own Leader (God rest his soul), Jerry Falwell, has made some statements in his lifetime that have either seemed outlandish or have been taken out of context. I have never sat under Rev. Wright. I am slightly familiar with the Black Liberation Movement.....but, I cannot make a call on this. Rev. Falwell has said some shocking things, and he was one of the greatest men of God to ever walk this planet.


Rev. Wright is an idiot in my book, but I do not believe that everything he has ever said is blasphemy. I honestly believe that Trinity Church has helped lost souls. We are so quick to point out the mistakes, but never any of the good. (the same with Dr. Falwell). I am proud that Obama has completely cut off all ties with Wright, and I hope that Rev. Wright takes this time to evaluate himself and to draw closer to God. Hopefully, then, he can make an impact on the kingdom of God, instead of making repeated mistakes that make him look like nothing but a tool of Satan.

you obviously don't know anything about the black liberation movement.....rev. wright has preached hatred towards white people from his pulpit, as many who practice black liberal theology...its a racist, hate movement.....i don't think dr falwell ever preached hatred.....

obama cut off all ties to one of his mentors and you think thats admirable? talk about loyalty....he was like a father to him...he even threw his own grandmother under a bus.....

and rev wright isn't even the worst of it.....look up tony rezko. anyone who associated with this goon is either a retard or a crook

what does trinity church helping lost souls have to do with anything....seriously, dude....this is starting to get ridiculous..

[Psalm34:1believer]

[

what does trinity church helping lost souls have to do with anything....seriously, dude....this is starting to get ridiculous..

I'm sorry, Rubber Mallot. This may not be the right place to discuss spiritual issues. I was simply implying that Barack's issues with Rev. Wright shouldn't way that heavily on our thinking. John McCain has no church involvement whatsoever, and Mitt Romney, another popular runner among conservatives was a Morman. Why do I only see issues with Barack's so called spiritual background here? If it's spiritual/church issues we're talking about here, lets make sure we stick to that. If you don't wish to talk about Trinity, lets no longer pursue it. I was simply making my case that we often see Barack portrayed as an evil tool who believes everything that Rev. Wright believed. Many people think barack's church is just a liberal nut home. . .

[Psalm34:1believer]

This person jumps on here all of a sudden when an Obama supporter is being man-handled. This new poster knows that this is a message board for a Christian school, so what is the issue that they agree with us on? Only the one issue that most people think is the only issue Christians care about, abortion. That makes her one of us, right? She must hold her political and moral convictions on par with the rest of us, right? Okay, but now she loves Hillary and Obama. I smell fraud, or a young college sophomore that hasn't really thought everything through.

And haizy, there's nothing wrong with calling Obama a pinko if that's what you think he is, especially when he has more in common with them than a capitalist.

This makes me laugh. You're completely right, I jumped right on these message boards to save another person...who apparently isn't even a student anymore, and is definitely someone who I've never even personally met (eye roll). Why would I do that? I have a full time job plus online classes. As compassionate as I would like to think that I am, I wouldn't do this just to "save" someone from some big, scary message boards. As far as me loving Hillary and Obama---If you actually read the entire Thread, you will see that I was originally a Hillary supporter. I liked her a lot, but I'm not stupid. I knew she would be out of the race so I had some careful thinking to do....I then researched both candidates, and prayed about it.... I felt compelled to support Obama. And as far as abortion being the only issue discussed......again, if you would actually read the entire thread, you would notice who I stepped up to answer any questions as to how I could be a Christian and an Obama supporter. . . I am "one of you" ---like it or not. I'm not only an LU student but I'm also a Christian....We'll always be connected in a way that our disagreeing political views will never be able to separate....by the way....I never stated my sex, either.........I'm a guy...just thought I should clear that up. . .

[Sly Fox]

John McCain has no church involvement whatsoever

To what extent do you consider involvement? He does attend an SBC church in Phoenix.

And thank you again for continuing the conversation. While I agree with your positions very infrequently I do value your dissenting presence on the board.

[Psalm34:1believer]

Is this the best Obama's supprters can do - offend over 40 year old, white Baptists from states that are very important to their candidate's election? Is this all we've leaned about race relations since the civil rights legislations from the 60's.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone. Lets remember, I've grown up there. I feel I have the right to make such a judgement call...I brush arms with these people every day...They are in my place of work, in my church, in my family....Sorry to appear like a blubbering liberal idiot....

To recap this discussion: we've had two Obama supporters step forward, one refuses to discuss her views and another probably should as well because he has agrees its okay to brand large groups of people as racists. Nice work. Next up perhaps the Obama people can give us their views on the Jews, Hispanics and Gypsies.

BTW, I'd like still like to hear your response to Obama calling his grandmothers' racist tendencies as being just a "typical white person." http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_up ... _some.html

Baldspot, your posts are becoming ridiculous. I understand your political views. You understand mine. Thank you for your input about how I should stop giving my input....I'm confused...isn't that what you wanted? I am not labeling everyone a racist, and for you to accuse of branding everyone in Pennsylvania---well, that is simply laughable. If I recall correctly I stated that "racism abounds" in northeastern pennslyvania (not that everyone is a racist), and also that central pennsylvania is made up primarily of "old-school baptists, primarily over the age of 40".... We actually had a report published in a local paper recently, stating that the average age in central pa is somewhere around 33, I believe. So 40 may have been a bit exaggerated, I apologize. Also, If you would be interested in the Baptist/Baptist-doctrine-teaching churches in my county as well as the surrounding counties, feel free to let me know. Off the top of my head, I can think of 41.....Sorry, I guess not ALL central pennsylvania is "old baptists".....

As far as Barack commenting on his grandmother's racist tendencies, your link was "invalid", but I managed to do some research. I'm confused as to exactly what the issue is here. I came across Barack's remarks, where he stated that he recalled his grandmother was "...a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe..." By you making an issue of him labeling her as a typical "white person" I'm assuming that you are alluding that Barack is racist against white people. I think that Barack's choice of words might have been poor, but I do not believe that he was labeling "typical white" people as "racist", but rather, in reference to his grandmother, he was stating that her actions, persona, and pre-formed idealogies might be different than his (as an African American, as he identifies himself).

Im sure you will have a problem with this post, Baldspot. I'm anxiously anticipating whatever issue you will present to me next. = )

[Psalm34:1believer]

John McCain has no church involvement whatsoever

To what extent do you consider involvement? He does attend an SBC church in Phoenix.

And thank you again for continuing the conversation. While I agree with your positions very infrequently I do value your dissenting presence on the board.

I may have jumped the gun on this one. I'm sorry. I should have reworded to say the following:

John McCain has not been labled by his church involvement whatsoever.

Thank you, by the way. I am okay with opposing political views. I'm not here to cause arguements, or pick fights. I'm here to clear up some of the confusion as to why some of "us", Liberty University Students, are casting our votes for Senator Obama in November. Thank you for being respectful in the posts. It means a lot. = )

[Baldspot]

As far as Barack commenting on his grandmother's racist tendencies, your link was "invalid", but I managed to do some research.

For the computer challenged on this board, I hit the link on Pslamists post and pasted the headline below. Basically a sports reporter asked Obama to comment on his grandmother's racist tendencies that he alluded to in his famous speech given at the Constitution Center during the PA primary. He replied that she acted like a "typical white person."

Obama's 'typical white' remark on WIP offended some

[Baldspot]

I am not labeling everyone a racist, and for you to accuse of branding everyone in Pennsylvania---well, that is simply laughable. If I recall correctly I stated that "racism abounds" in northeastern pennslyvania (not that everyone is a racist),

Obama's words regarding Pennsylvanians

they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Your exact words:

Have you ever been to Northern Pennsylvania; such as Scranton or other areas.Racism abounds, almost to a crazy standard.

From Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/crazy

cra·zy Audio Help /ˈkreɪzi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[krey-zee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation adjective, -zi·er, -zi·est, noun, plural -zies.
–adjective
1. mentally deranged; demented; insane.
2. senseless; impractical; totally unsound: a crazy scheme.
3. Informal. intensely enthusiastic; passionately excited: crazy about baseball.

Obama is right on one issue - he is the candidate of change. You'll never see another candidate offend so many people.

[JDUB]

\(as an African American, as he identifies himself).

I want to know why he identifies himself as an african american? isn't he half and half? why does he choose that side. why can't he call himself white? is it because he's racist? or, here's a novel idea, maybe he could call himself an American and forget all the stupid hyphenations. That is why there are still race issues in America, because no one can just be American, they have to associate themselves with different ethnic groups which ends up causing tension. I think that you should not be allowed to run for president if you are not just American.
After hearing some of the things he's said, I think he isn't a regular American though. I don't think he has any idea who the American people are or how they think. If he did, he wouldn't constantly insult huge groups of them

[Psalm34:1believer]

I am not labeling everyone a racist, and for you to accuse of branding everyone in Pennsylvania---well, that is simply laughable. If I recall correctly I stated that "racism abounds" in northeastern pennslyvania (not that everyone is a racist),

Obama's words regarding Pennsylvanians

they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

Your exact words:

Have you ever been to Northern Pennsylvania; such as Scranton or other areas.Racism abounds, almost to a crazy standard.

From Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/crazy

cra·zy Audio Help /ˈkreɪzi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[krey-zee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation adjective, -zi·er, -zi·est, noun, plural -zies.
–adjective
1. mentally deranged; demented; insane.
2. senseless; impractical; totally unsound: a crazy scheme.
3. Informal. intensely enthusiastic; passionately excited: crazy about baseball.

Obama is right on one issue - he is the candidate of change. You'll never see another candidate offend so many people.

Thank you Baldspot. I'm a communications major. I know how to use my words correctly. If you would examine the grammatical structure of that sentance you would notice that the reference of a "crazy standard" was in reference to the level that racism abounds, and it was not in any way refering that everybody in pennsylvania was a "crazy racist". Your posts are becoming more and more off the topic of Barck Obama and more and more focused on making me look like an idiot. If you have any valid questions or viewpoints to discuss, please, continue to do so. Stop twisting me words and making this post about me. I am here to talk about Senator Barack Obama and why I support him. I am here to answer questions, discuss viewpoints, etc. This isn't about me.

[Psalm34:1believer]

\(as an African American, as he identifies himself).

I want to know why he identifies himself as an african american? isn't he half and half? why does he choose that side. why can't he call himself white? is it because he's racist? or, here's a novel idea, maybe he could call himself an American and forget all the stupid hyphenations. That is why there are still race issues in America, because no one can just be American, they have to associate themselves with different ethnic groups which ends up causing tension. I think that you should not be allowed to run for president if you are not just American.
After hearing some of the things he's said, I think he isn't a regular American though. I don't think he has any idea who the American people are or how they think. If he did, he wouldn't constantly insult huge groups of them

I agree with you, JDUB. I do believe it is a shame that any of us cannot simply refer to oursleves outside of any pre-set ideologies about skin color, ethnicity, or background. I am unsure why Barack identifies himself as an African-American. I'm not actually sure that he even uses that moniker all of the time. Obviously, the black community could sway the vote either way. (I don't mean to sound condescending when I refer to the "black community", I hope this is non-offensive). Barack, like any other politician would, is "playing the marketing field". By labeling himself as "one of them" (again, sorry, non-offensive), he can garner the "safety support catch".

[JDUB]

well in my opinion he is racist because he is identifying himself with one people group. It would be one thing if he group up in the black community, but he didn't. he is just trying to associate with them and trick them into thinking he is one of them so he can get their votes. I hope the people in this country can see through all of his bull and deceit and realize who Barak Obama really is

[Sly Fox]

Surprisingly I am going to have to cut Obama some slack on the African-American moniker. Technically his Kenyan father and his American mother give him more credence to that title. Considering his dubious relationship with his cousin in Kenya who is allegedly trying to lead a revolution to overthrow that nation's government I would think he would want to distance himself from that side of term.

Are you supportive of the reparations that the Obama camp has hinted to in the campaign?

[Psalm34:1believer]

Are you supportive of the reparations that the Obama camp has hinted to in the campaign?

..and this is the part where I look like an idiot... I am confused, Sly Fox, what exactly are you referring to?

[JDUB]

Are you supportive of the reparations that the Obama camp has hinted to in the campaign?

? i'm not sure what you are talking about

[AZjonz]

Doesn't the government technically still owe 40 acres and a mule as part of reparations? History buffs can clue me in here.

Guy I work with says he wants 40 acres and gambling rights.

[Psalm34:1believer]

I found this when researching Obama's views on reparations--->It's only an associated press article so I cannot vouch for everything that is in it.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jZ0B ... gD92A5GCG0

Is this what you are referring to? If so, to be quite honest I have not really given this issue a lot of thought. Granted, slavery was horrible, and I apologize to any in the African American community who have had to endure that. I do think that what was done was done. We can't change the past. Would money or any other form of payment really permanently supress those memories? ...On the other hand, I have never gone through that. Maybe payment is deserved. I honestly couldn't say. I'm sorry, I'm not all that familiar with issue, nor Obama's stance on it. My personal opinion is that an "apology" (as hinted in the article) would be appropriate, but actual payment is going a bit to far. . . Again, just a personal opinion.

[Sly Fox]

This past week Congress voted to offer an official apology to African-Americans for slavery. For years many leaders such as Jeremiah Wright have demanded financial reparations for the damage left behind due to slavery. They are calling on the government to give financial awards to those who are of slave ancestry to even the playing field with whites.

Do you think reparations should be paid as some in the Obama campaign have allegedly been hinting amongst African-American power brokers?

[JDUB]

I don't think it is necessary. No one is still alive today that was involved with slavery, so they have no memory of it. They may have been told stories, but I've been told stories of bad stuff the government has done to my family too and I'm not getting any money. What's next? Apologize to England for forming our own country? Or maybe apologize to Japan for dropping two A-Bombs and making them have 3 testicled grandkids?

I say its history, let it stay there. Nothing the government can do will undo slavery. Its already been done, it was a horrible thing, everyone knows that, let it be. Anything they do will just reopen the issue and make it worse

[JDUB]

how is the playing field not even with whites? America is the land of opportunity. anyone can be rich and famous and successful if they work hard enough. if anything isn't fair, it may be the quality of the education system in primarily black communities, so I could see them arguing that. But this whole we need a government handout for something that happened many generations ago is ridiculous.

[Psalm34:1believer]

I don't think it is necessary. No one is still alive today that was involved with slavery, so they have no memory of it. They may have been told stories, but I've been told stories of bad stuff the government has done to my family too and I'm not getting any money. What's next? Apologize to England for forming our own country? ...

I say its history, let it stay there. Nothing the government can do will undo slavery. Its already been done, it was a horrible thing, everyone knows that, let it be. Anything they do will just reopen the issue and make it worse

I agree with JDUB. Again, I'm not sure about what hints Senator Obama has been dropping. I'm going to do some more research on this issue....

[Psalm34:1believer]

how is the playing field not even with whites? America is the land of opportunity. anyone can be rich and famous and successful if they work hard enough. if anything isn't fair, it may be the quality of the education system in primarily black communities, so I could see them arguing that. But this whole we need a government handout for something that happened many generations ago is ridiculous.

[Sly Fox]

Frankly I agree with many calling for reparation in one regard ... as a whole whites do have a greater access to the tools to succeed than those of color. But I am wholly against reparations. Why punish those of us whose ancestors in the north not only never held slaves but fought angrily against it. And what about those whose families arrived after slavery was abolished?

Moving right along, I would also love to hear your thoughts on his taxation stances.

[JDUB]

Frankly I agree with many calling for reparation in one regard ... as a whole whites do have a greater access to the tools to succeed than those of color. But I am wholly against reparations. Why punish those of us whose ancestors in the north not only never held slaves but fought angrily against it. And what about those whose families arrived after slavery was abolished?

Moving right along, I would also love to hear your thoughts on his taxation stances.

the opportunities you speak of that some may or may not have are not related to slavery at all. like I mentioned before, in some lower income parts of America, the education system is terrible. I am completely in favor of changing that, but I'm not sure how. That is a completely different debate though. A government handout like Obama would be in favor of is definitely not the answer

[JDUB]

His taxation stances are terrible too. We discussed this at work the other day. He wants to increase taxes on gas companies because they have passed his imaginary income threshold or whatever he calls it. His income tax plan would make every family earning more than 50k per year pay an additional 2500 in tax every year. He says it is 100k, but if you actually read the plan it is 50. I don't see how this plan could help anyone. I also think he is in favor of raising corporate tax rates, which are already high.
Then you run into the death and estate taxes which are currently not existent under the bush tax cuts but I believe that runs out in 2010, so Obama would reinstate those as well. Think about how dumb an estate tax is... someone works hard their whole life, pays tax on their income, pays property tax, etc. then they die, and instead of their family getting what they worked so hard for, the government wants to take even more of it. This is like triple taxation.

Obama is not changing anything, he is just reiterating classic liberal tax policies. This isn't much different than what any other democratic candidate would do.