[Casper]

explain to where logic entered the conversation....

Dook is overrated. period.

I'll give you a chance to be logical. I want you to really think about this. "Dook is overrated."

How? Please give me an intelligent response. Do you mean last year? The last two years? Or do you mean ever? Please, enlighten me.....

[jmdickens]

explain to where logic entered the conversation....

Dook is overrated. period.

I'll give you a chance to be logical. I want you to really think about this. "Dook is overrated."

How? Please give me an intelligent response. Do you mean last year? The last two years? Or do you mean ever? Please, enlighten me.....

Based on their performance over the last two seasons and their preseason hype from Dookie Vitale and ESPN, I would say with no stretch that Dook was overrated......and just not that good. i hope my words aren't too big for ya, If you follow Dook basketball you might not understand them..

[Casper]

Another note on the grad rates. And someone can correct me on this because I am not sure, but I believe that these rates are affected by transfers as well as NBA defects. We all know about Duke's recent transfer history as well having a few guys leave for the NBA. On a team of 13, if a few players leave every year it could really have an affect on your grad rate. As far as Duke football goes, with Duke's higher academic standards, it is a lot easier to field a competitive team of 13 than it is to field a competitive team of 80. It can be done but at Duke they have just not had a very good coach since Spurrier left after 89'. Recruiting has been awful and it simply snowballed. Hopefully Coach Cut can turn the ship around.

you better read part of that link I sent you......It does not count players that left early for the draft.

Like I said, I may be wrong. Could you copy the part that says that? I've read it but I cannot find where it says that. It late so I may just be missing it. Is the link http://www.tidesport.org/Grad%20Rates/2 ... ent_PR.pdf

[Casper]

explain to where logic entered the conversation....

Dook is overrated. period.

I'll give you a chance to be logical. I want you to really think about this. "Dook is overrated."

How? Please give me an intelligent response. Do you mean last year? The last two years? Or do you mean ever? Please, enlighten me.....

Based on their performance over the last two seasons and their preseason hype from Dookie Vitale and ESPN, I would say with no stretch that Dook was overrated......and just not that good. i hope my words aren't too big for ya, If you follow Dook basketball you might not understand them..

So you only mean the last two years? Then why not say so? As far as the preseason hype goes, what was it for Duke last season. ESPN had us at 12 and we finished at 16 so I can see we were overrated. Dang ESPN for hyping us that much. UNC started at 1 and finished at 3, almost the same overratedness(fake word). Who did "Dookie Vitale" pick to win it all last year? I believe it was UNC.(overrated?) So basically this hype you said Duke got.....I don't see it. I see UNC hype(well deserved IMO), but not Duke. Just another illogical assumption that is usually spewed by people filled with hatred/envy.

[JDUB]

preseason hype... so what you are saying is not that they are overrated, but that they had high expectations at the beginning of the year but because of injuries were not able to live up to everything espn expected from them.

[flamesbball84]

Dick Vitale is an idiot who has done nothing in 10 years - maybe more - to deserve to be able to have a voice on college basketball outside of the ACC.

[RagingTireFire]

Dick Vitale is an idiot who has done nothing in 10 years - maybe more - to deserve to be able to have a voice on college basketball outside of the ACC.

That's an idiotic statement. Was he supposed to cure cancer or something? He's a friggin' broadcaster! His "right" to have a voice is determined by those who are willing to pay him.

[blwall1416]

I'm sure there's a reason they asked one of the winningest coaches of all time to help lead our country back to a gold medal.

Indeed there is a reason....

"...and it was Colangelo who ultimately heeded the direction of Dean Smith, the former North Carolina coach and longtime Duke rival who nonetheless wholeheartedly endorsed the hiring of Coach K."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/s ... USA-080623

[Fumblerooskies]

Billy Packer is an idiot who has done nothing in 10 years - maybe more - to deserve to be able to have a voice on college basketball outside of the ACC.

Fixed it.

[SuperJon]

Excuse the guy for serving his country by being willing to coach the national team. I'm sure there's a reason they asked one of the winningest coaches of all time to help lead our country back to a gold medal.
And it's not like that takes up his responsibility 12 months out of the year. I'm sure the guy has time to recruit. Plus these days assistants do a good part of the recruiting.

I'm not saying he doesn't have a time to recruit and all of that. I'm just saying there's a direct correlation of Duke falling off of their standards and Coach K becoming the coach on the USA basketball team. If you look at it objectively you will see that.

[RagingTireFire]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; Duke has been "off their standards" since Luol Deng.

[BrysOn_G]

You would think a school that rich could buy some decent talent. Or do they do that these days?

decent talent rarely comes with a high GPA.

please.....Dook's basketball team sure doesn't have many students with high GPA..

don't forget also one of the worst graduation rates for college basketball teams....

didn't we have this argument a few months back?

coach k has made decisions and stuck with them... and his team has competed at the top, minus one year that i know of, practically forever. overrated. i don't think so. a coach, honored enough to be asked to coach the USA team, still finding a way to recruit highly rated players, and keep his team among the best in college basketball. sounds to me like the duke basketball program is the kind that teams and coaches around the country envy. it's not arrogant for a duke fan to admit that. i believe it's true from any person's POV.

it must take effort to be so negative about duke's program.

[SuperJon]

I never said Duke wasn't good. I just have the opinion that if Coach K was out recruiting in the summer time instead of coaching Team USA they would be able to get that one player each year that puts them over the top and back in the Elite 8 form they used to be in.

[BrysOn_G]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; Duke has been "off their standards" since Luol Deng.

agreed. that hasn't been stated by a tar heel in this thread though. rather, overrated, k only asked to coach because almighty dean, whiney... etc.

but wait... logic never entered this topic. so i cant say the heel posters are not being logical...

[SuperJon]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; Duke has been "off their standards" since Luol Deng.

agreed. that hasn't been stated by a tar heel in this thread though.

C'mon, give me credit. I said they weren't up to their standards, I never said overrated. You know me better than that.

[BrysOn_G]

I've said it before and I'll say it again; Duke has been "off their standards" since Luol Deng.

agreed. that hasn't been stated by a tar heel in this thread though.

C'mon, give me credit. I said they weren't up to their standards, I never said overrated. You know me better than that.

definitely not pointing anything i've said towards you. i only disagree with you in that K coaching USA ball has made the team fall from what is typically expected of them. i dont think him coaching that team has done anything. if it has done anything, i disagree that it's had a negative affect.

without even going back and re-reading even half of what dickens has said, i believe his opinions are mostly all wrong and not reasonable.

[truedrewdawg87]

I totally agree with Bryson. My biggest complaint toward Tar Hole fans for years is that they CAN'T bring themselves to respect Duke's program and what it has accomplished. Carolina fans can't comprehend that it's possible to dislike a person, school, franchise or whatever while still respecting it. As a Liberty fan I can't stand Winthrop basketball but I still respect what the Eagles have accomplished over the last few years. I don't like Carolina...can't stand them actually...but I have tremendous respect for what the basketball program has accomplished. This principle of disliking but respecting a program is one I'm beginning to doubt Carolina fans will ever, and I do mean ever grasp.

[jmdickens]

I gave facts about graduation rates for Dook basketball.....

Watch one early preseason game and you will hear how Dook has these tremendous student athletes....which is a lie when it comes to graduation rates......

I think they are overrated b/c of the way they play basketball.....they struggle mightily against top competition or very athletic teams (Miami, WVU, Pitt)

I don't inderstand how flopping is good for basketball, maybe some dook fan can explain.....it has made players appear better than they really are.

I also don't like Dook fans b/c they wont admit it when they are wrong....I gave you facts but you say I am wrong b/c I am a UNC fan....that goes right back to my analogy about the liberal...

Jesus Christ i hope I never get too embarrassed to admit when I am wrong.

[blwall1416]

On a lighter note, this proves my point about dook football. This thread has taken a turn.


By the way, do not lump me in with "your typical Tar Hole" fan. I HATE dook with a passion, but I do not deny what they have accomplished as a program. I've said it before, K's run of 7 Final Fours in 9 years from 86 - 94 is absolutely remarkable, and IMO the best coaching job he has ever done. How he turned out after '95 is what bothers me (as a person, not W & L's).

[truedrewdawg87]

I ALSO gave facts if you would read the ENTIRE thread. Duke had a 69 percent graduation rate which was one of the highest of ANY team in the NCAA tournament last season. How can you say they struggle mightily against top competition. Duke has won 6 of the last 8 ACC tournaments in a conference that's arguably the best in the country...Duke has NEVER lost a Maui Invitational...a tournament that consistently invites that nation's TOP teams....and a Duke squad that was a little down by Duke standards last season went and won AT Carolina...the team most people believed to be the best team in the nation. Duke didn't STRUGGLE against Pitt....they had a double digit lead and lost on a last-second shot...it isn't like they got blown out. Duke was in the game against WVU and lost to a team that wanted it more that day. The Miami game...I'll give you that one b/c they didn't show up that night...but I'm also MAN enough to admit when my team gets outplayed.
Thanks Dickens for only further proving my point that people that don't like Duke will come out and say Duke sucks, Duke is overrated, Duke gets calls they don't deserve, etc., etc., b/c people like you are NOT CAPABLE of RESPECTING Duke and giving the program DUE credit and still disliking Duke. I can't stand Carolina but I still respect the program.

[JDUB]

why do you keep bringing up graduation rates?

Duke has been down the last 2 years because of injuries more than anything else. they don't hold a press conference for every little thing, but almost every major player has been injured in the last 2 years. its pretty hard to be championship quality when your best players aren't playing at 100%

[truedrewdawg87]

I keep bringing up graduation rates b/c people like Dickens keep bringing them into question despite the fact that at least twice now I've proven their arguments wrong. I'm not saying Duke hasn't dealt with injuries lately b/c they have. But the program hasn't exactly fallen off the face of the Earth like some people on this board seem to believe.

[JDUB]

i was saying you generically by the way.. not pointing at one person but just generally

[BrysOn_G]

I gave facts about graduation rates for Dook basketball.....

Watch one early preseason game and you will hear how Dook has these tremendous student athletes....which is a lie when it comes to graduation rates......

I think they are overrated b/c of the way they play basketball.....they struggle mightily against top competition or very athletic teams (Miami, WVU, Pitt)

I don't inderstand how flopping is good for basketball, maybe some dook fan can explain.....it has made players appear better than they really are.

I also don't like Dook fans b/c they wont admit it when they are wrong....I gave you facts but you say I am wrong b/c I am a UNC fan....that goes right back to my analogy about the liberal...

Jesus Christ i hope I never get too embarrassed to admit when I am wrong.

1.) duke has a 60-something % graduation. i admit that. when in this thread have i denied it? duke has tremendous student athletes. i have nothing to admit being wrong about here. nothing to be embarassed about. duke has tremendous student athletes. fact. if you want to deny that because of their graduation rate. deny away...

2.) duke is not overrated. every team struggles when playing athletic hoodlums. unc doesnt?? duke still comes out ranked top 25, and most of the time the top of the top 25, every year. so i'm not embarassed to say duke is overrrated... because t-h-e-y a-r-e n-o-t.

3.) are you jealous that duke coaches have stopped and said, "look, drawing a charge is a strong way to change possessions and change a game. this is how you draw a charge... try to draw as many as possible. it brings intensity to a game." i dont think shane battier ever went around thinking of how he could flop all over the place during a game. he knew what a charge was... and tried to draw as many as possible. shame on him for wanting to help his team in a way he knew he could.

[blwall1416]

so i'm not embarassed to say duke is overrrated... because t-h-e-y a-r-e n-o-t.

I concur. Henceforth, we shall call them "underachievers".