This forum is pure hardball. Bring the heat in this discussion of Flames baseball.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

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By RagingTireFire
Registration Days Posts
#169316
checkmate wrote: Luckily Volleyball was not treated in the same fashion.
You mean by replacing a semi-successful coach with one whose team struggled in their first year, improved over the next two and then dominated he conference in Year Four complete with knocking off the perennial conference power? Yeah, I can live with that model.
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By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#169323
Dont forget a perfect month of October and I think 14 straight sweeps RTF.
By HenryGale
Registration Days Posts
#169328
checkmate wrote: loose to a great BS team in the championship game
You referencing the perennial powerhouse UNCA, of which, LU had a 10 run lead at one point in the game and lost?
By hurricane fan
Registration Days Posts
#169329
the volleyball players love and respect their coach so they work their butts off. the coach also has the support of the players' families. i think it is apparent that none of these scenarios existed in baseball under MR. MR may be a great guy but he seemed to rub people (including the players) the wrong way. the JT philosophy of baseball and the MR philosophy of baseball couldnt be more different.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#169331
HenryGale wrote:
checkmate wrote: loose to a great BS team in the championship game
You referencing the perennial powerhouse UNCA, of which, LU had a 10 run lead at one point in the game and lost because the coach wouldn't listen to his pitching coach and insisted on completely mishandling the pitching staff that game?
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By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#169332
Let's not start this up again this morning. Please.
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By JDUB
Registration Days Posts
#169347
i'm trying to figure out what checkmate is trying to argue about this time. volleyball? Socrates? MR? RD? UNCA? QUiZ BOWL? The color of the sky?
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By matshark
Registration Days Posts
#169371
RagingTireFire wrote:
checkmate wrote: Luckily Volleyball was not treated in the same fashion.
You mean by replacing a semi-successful coach with one whose team struggled in their first year, improved over the next two and then dominated he conference in Year Four complete with knocking off the perennial conference power? Yeah, I can live with that model.
actually there was a bit more to it than that, but yes... and getting even better this year.
By Yosemite Sam
Registration Days
#169419
I usually read more than I post, but if I may put my 2 cents in:

Royer never got a written contract while at LU. He asked for it several times under Kim Graham and JB but never got it. Toman is the first LU baseball coach to be on a contract. It's about time!!!

Maybe MR did not have the best personality that made players like him, but there are many coaches in college baseball like him that have had great success. Winthrop's players can't stand Joe Hudak. I have friends who played for Jim Morris when he was at GT and Steve Weber when he was at UGA and many players there could not stand them either. Both of them have been to Omaha. I have also heard players talk ill of the former Notre Dame and now LSU coach. Anyway my point is that Royer was doing a good job and I think he could have eventually gotten the program to the level of being a consistent top 50 team. He may not have been popular but he pushed players to work hard and get better. Which leads me to my next comment:

If you look at Royer's track record, he has built programs and won wherever he has been. To do that you must be able to spot diamonds in the rough, develop talent, and teach the fundamentals. He had several pitchers drafted high rounds at Kutztown. Not bad for a self-taught pitching coach. He had to develop many of the players who came to LU under his tenure. The John brothers, Patrick Gaillard, Michael Just, Phil Laurent, Michael Solbach, and Aaron Grijalva are just to name a few. It's always been like this. Many great players who left Liberty were just average when they came: Jason Jones, Marcus Maringola, Kelly Knouse, Shane Miller, Chad Miller, Larry York, Matt Hagen, The Benham twins, Benji Miller, Jason Baker, Charlie Kim, Chris Robbins, Beau Martin, Doug Brady, Randy Tomlin, etc...

Yes the Flames are having a rough go at it so far. Lets not play the blame game. This years returners were fundamentally sound under Royer. He stressed the fundamentals like crazy because the team was not loaded with talent. He taught guys how to play the game. I'm not sure what Toman's development strategy is but I know he has only been at big programs that were filled with abundant talent. Let's hope he can bring in that kind of talent that will fit in at Liberty. What's happening right now is not Royer's fault so please stop eluding to it in some of the posts I have read in the past. LETS JUST DROP THE ROYER THING ONCE AND FOR ALL!!! The man is gone and is never coming back. He will go on to bigger and better things.

I have confidence the Flames will continue to get better and better under the Toman Era. He fits the mold of a likeable and impressive head coach that players want to play for. He has built a great network of contacts in college baseball. His assistants are hard workers (not that Royers weren't) and have the resources to go out and find players. Pastors put together a great program but he would not have done it without Jeff Edwards. Pastors was the machine, but Edwards was the fuel that made it run. Royer made it a point to bring in Christian kids. He did a great job at developing players and preparing them to play. It looks like Toman's success will come from bringing in a higher level of talent. He has a difficult task ahead of him that will take time to accomplish. Lets be patient with him.

Please!!! Let's stop arguing about Royer. It does make for interesting reading but, it is getting a bit tired. This will require Royer haters to stop taking cheap shots at him and trying to blame him for this season's woes, and Royer supporters to stop bringing up how he was screwed. Yes the circumstances around his resignation were very suspect, but I understand Barber was only carrying out Dr. Falwell's wishes due to complaining players and immature parents. I do think Barber saw it as an opportunity to get his guy in there though. Royer got a respectable severance for someone who was not on a contract.

Yes, I am a Royer supporter, but I am also an Al Worthington, Bobby Richardson, Johnny Hunton, Dave Pastors, and Jim Toman supporter.

GO FLAMES!!!
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By Fumblerooskies
Registration Days Posts
#169457
Post of the year, right there, folks. I, for one, will stop the MR bashing. Thanks Sam.
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By matshark
Registration Days Posts
#169483
Yosemite Sam - 5 posts since 6/9/07

"I usually read more than I post" - Understatement of the YEAR...lol

Good post Sam.
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By bigsmooth
Registration Days Posts
#169559
nice post sam. i have not bashed MR, but i agree it is time to move on!!
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