This is the definitive place to discuss everything that makes life on & off campus so unique in Central Virginia.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

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By ToTheLeft
Registration Days Posts
#159746
SuperJon wrote:
ToTheLeft wrote:4. I hate Skip Bayless, but he is right on one. Nothing good ever happens after midnight, anywhere. I can understand having a late night place on campus to chill, but letting college aged kids off campus is begging them to do wrong! You can't have it both ways, and since Liberty is serious about being a school that is Christian and distinctly Christian, they err on the side of caution.
So the times you signed out to my house before a football game, I think it was once or twice, and were out of the dorm after midnight, did something bad happen? No. You chilled out with some friends, went to bed, and then woke up.
Nothing good happened tho. I didn't go buy some bread, I didn't do my homework at a coffee shop, I didn't save someones soul, I hung out... that's not something good. Good things don't happen after midnight. Meaningful things don't happen after midnight, just bad things.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#159747
That could very well be the dumbest thing I've heard you say. Hanging out with friends isn't a good thing? Since when?
User avatar
By ToTheLeft
Registration Days Posts
#159748
dude, its not that its not fun, but to say its a good thing? I mean for me it is, but for Liberty University? I am not saying from my perspective, I mean from LU's.
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By PAmedic
Registration Days Posts
#159749
TTL- I gotta say, you really need to get your head outta the bubble man! :D

Are you freakin' kidding me? In 12 minutes, my shift will only be 1/2 over. When working, and even OFF duty- I do a lot of my shopping overnite. Groceries, clothes, etc.

Its 2008, not 1958- in a global economy- time of day has very little meaning to ANYONE. I have no clue what your life experience is- but I can assure you, not everyone awake at 0100 is having sex or doing lines of coke.

wow. Still can't believe you're serious about that.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#159751
So for Liberty, it's not a good thing for their students to be making friends and hanging out without drinking or anything like that? I'd think that's a very good thing for Liberty. It shows that Liberty's students are Christians and live a true Christian life but at the same time have fun. That's a very good thing.
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By ToTheLeft
Registration Days Posts
#159753
SuperJon wrote:So for Liberty, it's not a good thing for their students to be making friends and hanging out without drinking or anything like that? I'd think that's a very good thing for Liberty. It shows that Liberty's students are Christians and live a true Christian life but at the same time have fun. That's a very good thing.
The rules aren't made for me. I could stay out at your place til 4 and never do anything wrong... but I still have to follow them because there are people out there who will break them... That's life. There will be rules til you die.

From LU's perspective, there is no use in students being out past midnight. There are tons of people in the dorms for you to hang out with after curfew. That's their stance, not mine. Think as if you were LU for a second...

I don't see why this is so outrageous. Sorry that it has you guys all up in arms, but like I have said and will say again, you paid for it...
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By PAmedic
Registration Days Posts
#159754
outrageous isn't really the word I was thinking of.

simplistic

legalistic

like many other "mountain" mindsets- talk to me in about 10 years when you have been out in the real world a while.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#159755
Think from Liberty's perspective? Alright, here you go, a new marketing plan:

We're the top Christian University in the world. We teach our students the Bible and teach them to live their lives the way Jesus taught them to.
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By ToTheLeft
Registration Days Posts
#159757
alright, well, I would just like to see what would happen if LU lifted curfew.

I am thinking it would not be good.

But you guys keep thinking selfishly. I wouldn't be the one doing bad stuff after curfew. Medic wouldn't be, FFG wouldn't be... but there are a ton of people who would. I know some of them... I am glad they have rules set for them.
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By ToTheLeft
Registration Days Posts
#159759
I think you guys are being really selfish.
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By PAmedic
Registration Days Posts
#159760
my head hurts. I give up.

somehow, I think people are responsible for their own actions.

I don't think you legislate for 10,000 people because 5% of them might do something "bad".

very 3rd grade. JMHO .

everyone is entitled to their opinion, though. I can't argue anymore.
By SuperJon
Registration Days Posts
#159762
You say there are people here that would be doing things they should if it weren't for curfew. Those are the same people that every single time they go home for the weekend, for spring break, for summer, or whenever, they party and do all of the stuff anyways. So really, has Liberty changed anything? No, they just scared them into not doing things while they were here. I would much rather have someone make some mistakes, realize they did it, realize they were wrong, and truly change their life because they want to. I've said that from the get go on my stance on curfew. Making kids be back on campus by a certain time does not teach them anything. Having them stay out til four in the morning and then have a test at 8am teaches them responsibility much more than making them be home by midnight. If the kids are gonna drink, they're going to drink. You're kidding yourself if you don't think there are kids all over campus right now drinking in their dorm rooms even with curfew.
User avatar
By Just John
Registration Days Posts
#159763
SuperJon wrote:You say there are people here that would be doing things they should if it weren't for curfew. Those are the same people that every single time they go home for the weekend, for spring break, for summer, or whenever, they party and do all of the stuff anyways. So really, has Liberty changed anything? No, they just scared them into not doing things while they were here. I would much rather have someone make some mistakes, realize they did it, realize they were wrong, and truly change their life because they want to. I've said that from the get go on my stance on curfew. Making kids be back on campus by a certain time does not teach them anything. Having them stay out til four in the morning and then have a test at 8am teaches them responsibility much more than making them be home by midnight. If the kids are gonna drink, they're going to drink. You're kidding yourself if you don't think there are kids all over campus right now drinking in their dorm rooms even with curfew.
"As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he."

Curfew won't change the heart so why cover it with whitewash? Something like that in the Bible. If it were high school and they were notr adults it is one thing. But Champions also need to be adults.....and part of that process is screwing up and paying the price......consequences. Not being falsely sheltered from ones self. IMO that creates a false sense of piety and a "cultural Christian" instead of someone who has claimed their own faith for themselves.
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By qkslvrsrfrboy
Registration Days Posts
#159768
I think ive voiced it on here before, my parents were close with Doc before he passed, and when I first decided to transfer here two years ago, part of my visit included getting to go in his office to meet Him and Dr. Towns. During this Doc looked at me and said what I thought about the rules, and I said something to the effect of how they would be a huge difference from where I was at school, that I would have to adjust to them, and it might be hard at first. His response summed up (dont remember it word for word but the gist was) "I think alot of them are dumb, too. But I would rather have these rules and have people think to themselves 'Why are there these rules? Obviously they have them for a reason, what is it' and not just think of the surface level stuff, to truly try and understand what were really saying. On top of it, a good Leader has to at some point learn to follow, even when its hard. I want to make real leaders here, so its going to be hard for them for a while."

I had it re-applied to my life this last semester when I was in a bad place in my walk with God. Its easy at christian schools, especially at Liberty, to grow further from God than you think. I was dating the girl i thought i was going to marry, and we wanted to spend more time alone but its hard on this campus, and i was complaining about this to my parents and they said "instead of complaining, why dont the two of you try and find what God is trying to say to you through this, what your supposed to be learning, think back on what Jerry said." Although ive come to realize God didnt want me spending ANY time with that girl, thinking this way has really change my persepective on alot of the rules.

And i am in no way legalistic, but seriously, the rules here arent that bad.
It was stated nothing Good happens after curfew, and although good can happen after curfew, alot of bad can happen after curfew too. Yes its a blanket rule, which sucks for those that wouldnt be doing bad, but its the rule, and unless your name is Trey falwell, you cant complain and get your way.Theres a million reasons to support Curfew and a million to go against it. For me, its just a reminder to go to bed earlier, i dont need to be up late.

I could go on and on but then people wont read this, and not to say what I have said is of great importance, but you can get something out of everything you read, and i dont mean that to be like hey read this, it will change your mind, it probably wont, but im just saying.
User avatar
By flamesfilmguy
Registration Days Posts
#159778
ToTheLeft wrote:
flamesfilmguy wrote:
First off. i didn't sign that contract. second you are taking what i'm saying out of context. when i say "forced" I mean if you don't follow them you get "kicked out" or at least thats how its supposed to be. I hate to tell you man but most of the rules are legalistic. and i hate that. but you know what? i'm not gonna go to tech or UVA because one i can't get into those schools and two i like Liberty. yea i understand we are supposed to respect our authorities but come on. honestly, do you think that hair code and curfew are keeping us out of truoble? no. people who want to break the rules no matter what kind of rules are in place. I'm not saying completly do away with rules but take rules out that are pointless. like curfew and the hair code. and maybe leave dress code up to departments within the school. its not fair to the good kids on campus who wouldn't abuse curfew. to assume that everyone out past midnight is up to no good. that is legalistic thinking. you can keep telling me and others who agree to just leave but if thats the attitude the school takes then i have a feeling the school would have 4000-5000 less students real fast.
1. You did sign a contract. You agreed to be a Liberty Student by paying them tuition. You made an agreement.
2. That's not forcing people. Saying follow the rules or leave is what EVERYONE does, that's why they are rules and not suggestions!
3. People breaking the rules is never a reason to get rid of rules. In fact, it should lead to more rules.
4. I hate Skip Bayless, but he is right on one. Nothing good ever happens after midnight, anywhere. I can understand having a late night place on campus to chill, but letting college aged kids off campus is begging them to do wrong! You can't have it both ways, and since Liberty is serious about being a school that is Christian and distinctly Christian, they err on the side of caution.

I like how you label it legalistic. I tend to think it is just trying to set us apart. Don't like it? Don't pay for it. It's as easy as that. There are other places with less selective admissions that don't have these rules. Indiana State comes to mind. Don't whine and cry about it, either deal with what you chose to pay for, or take yourself somewhere else.

It is how it is. This is Liberty, we are training Champions for Christ. If you wanted a school that has watered down it's religion, I can give you a list of hundreds. LU is choosing to hold on to what makes it different, and this is how they choose to do it.
1. No i didn't. I still have it in my desk drawer if you would like to see it i'll gladly show you.
2. maybe forcing was the wrong word.
3. People breaking the rules is not why we are wanting to get rid of them. the rules having nothing to do with us being better christians I.E hair code dress code curfew is what makes us want to get rid of them. we are all adults and need to act like them. and being able to make decisions on staying out late or going to bed or studying is a decision kids need to be able to make as adults.
4. there are plenty of good things that happen after midnight. late night trips to sheetz, ihop or waffle house. road trips to basketball games, posting on FF.com, playing Xbox with your buddies, and poker night. i can think of a thousand more things that could be good after midnight. and the assumption that letting college students out after midnight is BEGGING them to do wrong is just wrong.

I like what Medic said. "I don't think you legislate for 10,000 people because 5% of them might do something "bad". He's exactly right. just because 500 of the 10,000 kids on campus might be up to no good after midnight doesnt mean we have to "punish" per say the other 9500 students who would enjoy not having to speed through campus and park illegally just to make curfew.
User avatar
By flamesfilmguy
Registration Days Posts
#159779
oh and just to clarify about the contract. me paying tuition is in no way a contract. they actually ask every student to sign a written contract sayin they will follow the liberty way. that is the document i have not signed.
User avatar
By FlameDad
Registration Days Posts
#159811
This is a great thread - it is good to see students and alumni discuss this important subject in a respectful & thoughtful manner.
In terms of the dress code, I would submit that the current standards do serve a good purpose - for Liberty and secular schools as well.
I would be interested in knowing how Jerry Jr. feels about the dress code and the other issues being addressed in this thread.
Again, reading this affirms my son's decision to attend Liberty.


I can't believe I am agreeing with a few points by TTL :shock:
By blwall1416
Registration Days Posts
#159816
flamesfilmguy wrote:LU does not really screen the people they allow into the school.
While some of your other points were good....you are off on this one. I know for a fact that LU screens it's applicants. Non-Christians are intentionally let into the school. We only have room for 3,000 or so new students next year....we already have more than 3x that in applications, IIRC.
User avatar
By ToTheLeft
Registration Days Posts
#159867
FlameDad wrote:I can't believe I am agreeing with a few points by TTL :shock:
I have a new signature. :P
By hurricane fan
Registration Days Posts
#159872
The problem is most people don't like rules...period. They also believe they do not deserve the consequences that come with breaking the rules. Most students don't turn "bad" at Liberty. More often than not, they were that way before they got here. I personally blame the parenting (or lack thereof) of students who consistantly get in trouble here at LU. Lack of respect and discipline in their upbringing leads to the lack of judgement these days.
By jmdickens
Registration Days Posts
#159885
ToTheLeft wrote:
flamesfilmguy wrote:
First off. i didn't sign that contract. second you are taking what i'm saying out of context. when i say "forced" I mean if you don't follow them you get "kicked out" or at least thats how its supposed to be. I hate to tell you man but most of the rules are legalistic. and i hate that. but you know what? i'm not gonna go to tech or UVA because one i can't get into those schools and two i like Liberty. yea i understand we are supposed to respect our authorities but come on. honestly, do you think that hair code and curfew are keeping us out of truoble? no. people who want to break the rules no matter what kind of rules are in place. I'm not saying completly do away with rules but take rules out that are pointless. like curfew and the hair code. and maybe leave dress code up to departments within the school. its not fair to the good kids on campus who wouldn't abuse curfew. to assume that everyone out past midnight is up to no good. that is legalistic thinking. you can keep telling me and others who agree to just leave but if thats the attitude the school takes then i have a feeling the school would have 4000-5000 less students real fast.
1. You did sign a contract. You agreed to be a Liberty Student by paying them tuition. You made an agreement.
2. That's not forcing people. Saying follow the rules or leave is what EVERYONE does, that's why they are rules and not suggestions!
3. People breaking the rules is never a reason to get rid of rules. In fact, it should lead to more rules.
4. I hate Skip Bayless, but he is right on one. Nothing good ever happens after midnight, anywhere. I can understand having a late night place on campus to chill, but letting college aged kids off campus is begging them to do wrong! You can't have it both ways, and since Liberty is serious about being a school that is Christian and distinctly Christian, they err on the side of caution.

I like how you label it legalistic. I tend to think it is just trying to set us apart. Don't like it? Don't pay for it. It's as easy as that. There are other places with less selective admissions that don't have these rules. Indiana State comes to mind. Don't whine and cry about it, either deal with what you chose to pay for, or take yourself somewhere else.

It is how it is. This is Liberty, we are training Champions for Christ. If you wanted a school that has watered down it's religion, I can give you a list of hundreds. LU is choosing to hold on to what makes it different, and this is how they choose to do it.
Actually many great things happen after midnight between me and the wife!!! So you and Skip are wrong (yes taking it out of context, but you have been doing it too)

Guys and Gals, as a former rule breaker and rule enforcer, chill out......go to the beach for spring break with some LU kids (ones that aren't morons and don't get effed up and have some fun). You'll be better for it, and you'll come back excited just to be back at ol LU.
By jmdickens
Registration Days Posts
#159886
JDUB wrote:as a business student i have to wear a suit and tie for at least 2 classes, i think there are more. so some teachers do enforce the rules

the dress code is completely unenforceble at north because you have the food court right by the classrooms, and classrooms all around the track. they can't call it an academic area with the huge track right there. i do agree that they should enforce the rules more in demoss, especially the c-lab. its one thing to be borderline on dress code, but some people go in there dressed like they just walked out of laHaye.
I thought you guys wore suits for the extra credit???? That is what I heard.....but it is Liberty
User avatar
By jcmanson
Registration Days Posts
#159887
As a former Finance major, it is for extra credit. 5 points added to your final grade.
User avatar
By Schfourteenteen
Registration Days Posts
#159970
FFG this year we dont have the "signed contract" - TTL we used to be given a contract that we were supposed to sign saying we read and will follow the Liberty Way. They used to give it to us at hall meeting but only 1/2 to maybe 2/3 actualy signed it, and I cant imagine all of those people actually reading the thing.

Why do people hate the "dumb" rules? No one ever said having short hair makes you a better Christian, and I dont think anyone pretends to think like that. So in essense we are all aware that dress and hair and those gosh darn earrings :wink: have nothing to do with our walk with God.

If that is the case I personally believe that a specific hatred of those "non-ethical" rules has more to do with rebellion than logic. In other words, because it doesnt apply to a "Christian Moral Standard" we shouldnt have those rules, because those rules are "dumb and pointless." At the same point, those rules, although not appealing to a moral standard, are there in order to teach us discipline. People who come out of military schools are much more responsible and mature on average than someone graduating from a state school with no restrictions over their students.

If Liberty University wants to graduate professionalism and responsibility then they should up the rules in certain areas. Hair should be above the ears again, ties and decent pants, no jeans, no hats and no earrings, bring back the Hunting season and let RA's bring us back to where we once were. If they want to junk everything between dress and hair code, fine.

But those are way too extreme for current students to deal with, including me. They are unrealistic in every way possible. LU students cry as it is, so putting more rules will just make people scream legalism. Taking them away and well have what LU parking looked like when LUPD took a month off in the parking lots: every lot had cars on grass, in the middle of lanes, everywhere.

So heres my take:

1) Curfew stays - When TTL says that nothing good happens after midnight, although that is extreme, its there for a reason. Find any couple who both live on campus and Ill guarentee that their purity has been helped in some way by that. People who are going to sneak out are going to sneak out, but if they get caught, especially at a party or somewhere they really shouldnt be, then kick them out. We have 10000 applicants for this year and nowhere to put them.

2) Hair code is changed to a) Above the ears or b) taken away completely - Having in between makes it impossible for RA's to actually keep up on people about this. Call it legalism, but to be honest rules arent the worst thing in the world. Besides, any rule LU has not implying Spirituality is going to bring moans and groans from the rebellious ones anyway. If its taken away earrings ought to be okay then to, to keep consistency.

3) Dress code is made a little bit stricter on both sides - No t-shirts for women, not hoodies hats or sweatjackets for guys. Again, more towards professionalism, but it also makes more sense. People dont have so many complaints like well why can this be okay but not this?



Is it more rules? Yes. Would it be a pain? Yes. But when I leave Ill be a better man because of it, not because it makes me more a Christian, but because I will have followed the rules my leader has set. Whether it be curfew or hair, I will have obeyed my authorities and will be much more ready to listen to my boss and follow out what he feels is best. Also I wont be such a crybaby if theres a rule I dont like.

With that said, rules are absolutely pointless if no one can enforce them. If RA's keep twidling their thumbs instead of seeing and confronting, there is no reason to have any of it.

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, But he who hates reproof is stupid.
He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.
By hurricane fan
Registration Days Posts
#159987
Schfourteenteen wrote:FFG this year we dont have the "signed contract" - TTL we used to be given a contract that we were supposed to sign saying we read and will follow the Liberty Way. They used to give it to us at hall meeting but only 1/2 to maybe 2/3 actualy signed it, and I cant imagine all of those people actually reading the thing.
FWIW, this process is done electronically during the application process before you are even accepted to attend school here. Most wouldn't know that they agreed to knowing and abiding by the Liberty Way because their mommy probably filled out the application for them.
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