[Schfourteenteen]

As for the RA Hunting Season that LUconn was talking about, we dont have that

[SuperJon]

The thing is the dress code isnt enforcable whatsoever. If were going to dress professionally, lets dress professionally. If we arent, then lets bag the whole thing (minus women's skimpy clothes and inappropriate slogans logos and or jokes)

Why isn't it? If a guy doesn't have a collar, he's out of dress code. Seems pretty enforceable to me.

If a guy is in sweats or shorts, he's out of dress code. Seems pretty enforceable to me.

If a girl is wearing a skirt or bermuda shorts that are over her knees, as much as I hate it, she's out of dress code. Seems pretty enforceable to me.

[ATrain]

The way the Liberty Waya is currently worded, you can't even hold a job as a waiter/waitress if it involves serving alcohol or working at a restaraunt that does. Personally, how one treats it is their business and as long as they're not hurting me or anyone, I don't worry about it.

[Sly Fox]

Thanks for the insight, Beer Dude.

[phoenix]

Re: Dress Code

I went to LU in the tie and no jeans days (got busted repeatedly for wearing sweaters with no tie -- the RAs LOOKED). When I started seminary (summer semester at SBTS), I showed up with my standard-issue LU class dress. Walked into class in my khakis ....

And was greeted by an entire room of people in shorts and T-shirts. I was overdressed. Of course I figured it was because of summer session -- but the dress code was the same in the fall -- there was none, beyond "dress modestly."

There are things that should be enforced. But there are things that are really minor that shouldn't be, and I think dress code is one of them. Hair code is another (never got reps for that). Music is a third (don't even get me started).

But there are some things that you should expect to be against the rules when you show up at a Christian university, and if you're spending all your time trying to get away with something, then save your parents some money and go to the state school in your state (even Ohio State is cheaper for in-state than LU is).

[flamesfilmguy]

Here's the Thing 14.
1. LU does not really screen the people they allow into the school. therefore those people you have sitting next to you in the lab may not be christians. in fact i think most of the people on this board would be suprised how many non-christians actually go to liberty. now i'm not saying we shouldn't allow non-christians in the school. and because of this we cannot expect as a school or students here for every student to follow the rules. I think the RA's jobs here at the school are ten times harder than at any other school. The students for the most part despise them because of their position because the students hate the legalistical rules. and I know you guys are gonna rip on me and say go to another school but here's my thoughts on that: This environment keeps me from breaking more rules. keeps other people from breaking more rules. At a state school it would be very easy to go out every weekend and get drunk but here there is a constant reminder that what i'm doing somthing wrong. Kids come here to stay out of trouble. or kids parents send their kids here to keep them out of trouble. kids who don't care or have no concience or are not close to the lord are gonna break the rules. regardless of what the consequences are and how much the rules are being enforced. so.. my point is. the RA's don't need to be expected to enforce the legalistic rules like hair code and dress code.
2. dress code is dumb. we are adults here if we need to be professional(i.e presentation, test, etc.) the TEACHERS should enforce that. if you come to class for a presentation sloppy you aren't allowed to come to class or you don't get credit for being there. I garuntee you that kids would follow dress code if they knew that if they went to class out of dress code and would get an absence for it and not be able to turn any work in that class. that is what the profs should be doing anyway but are they? no. i had holes in my jeans today and was not approached once. in either of my classes.
3. The only thing that is going to solve what you see in the C-lab and all over campus is if the rules become more lax and the school becomes more strict on the admissions side. Kids who are forced into rules they don't like are bound to break them. its just the way things are. but if you relax the rules. they are less likely to break them because more kids will agree with the rules.

Just my two cents. not saying i'm perfect. and not saying i've followed the rules... i'm pretty sure i was one of the people signed out to jon's house before i turned 21. but yea. just my thoughts on the issue. feel free to rip me up and down.

[PAmedic]

no ripping in store, from me at least.

you guys are doing a remarkably good job of presenting both sides of this issue succinctly and respectfully.

keep it going.

[whmatthews]

RA's are just scared to write people up most of the time.

[4everfsu]

From a real old timer, who followed the dress and hair code rules, because it was either that way or the highway. I agree with flamefilmguy and the younger LU students on here about the dress and hair code. But with the hair rule as long as a guys hair is not Sampson or have him mistaken for a girl, I am for easing up on that.
I would say keep the rules againist drinking, smoking and messing around with the other sex. And no I am not saying it is ok to mess around with the same sex. I figured if I didn't say that some whipper snapper would say something about that

[JDUB]

as a business student i have to wear a suit and tie for at least 2 classes, i think there are more. so some teachers do enforce the rules

the dress code is completely unenforceble at north because you have the food court right by the classrooms, and classrooms all around the track. they can't call it an academic area with the huge track right there. i do agree that they should enforce the rules more in demoss, especially the c-lab. its one thing to be borderline on dress code, but some people go in there dressed like they just walked out of laHaye.

[ToTheLeft]

Here's the Thing 14.
1. LU does not really screen the people they allow into the school. therefore those people you have sitting next to you in the lab may not be christians....

So because they aren't Christian, we should change the rules for them? or expect them not to follow them? That is completely irrelevant. The main issue is Mommy and Daddy write a check for them to come here, and they get to go to school. They don't bother to read the rules before coming here... If the parents want them to follow the rules, then teach them... don't send them to Liberty and hope they catch on. Or send them to boot camp.

I like how you said "forced into rules"... no one is forced into anything ffg. This is a private school that accepts applications and grants people admission if they qualify. I don't see any forcing. The main issue is, the people who isng up need to know what they are getting themselves into, and read the rules. Ever since you were a kid you knew to read the rules before you started something... so why go to college without reading the rules?

I am all for anyone who wants to come here to come here. I am NOT for us changing the rules because people are breaking them and everyone is too scared to enforce them. I hear people all the time talking about how they sneak out after curfew or what they do with their girlfriends... and it ticks me off. I follow the rules as much as I can and I feel cheated when I see someone walk into class in a T-Shirt, a Hat, and a lip ring, and I know that if I wore my Bucs jersey and no collared shirt someone would pull me aside. (and not just because its the Bucs).

I am sick of people whining and crying about how the rules are dumb. We are within an hour or so of Tech and UVa, if you aren't happy here, feel free to try there. This is Liberty, it's different, now try to follow the rules that you signed a contract for, or get the heck out.

[MacGeek]

? its not even bad?


send them to the legalist boot camp(PCC)

But i don't understand the hoodies? how can that be in the dress code?

[JDUB]

its a coat technically, so as long as they don't take it off no one can see there is no collar under it

[SuperJon]

I think it boils down to this:

The moral issues stay. Drinking, smoking, sexual issues, etc. That stuff doesn't get changed.

The dumb stuff goes. Dress code, curfew, hair code, etc. Get rid of it.

Hold us accountable as Christians and the way we should act as Christians. Don't make us look a certain way while doing it though.

[MacGeek]

then it wouldn't be liberty...

[SuperJon]

Why wouldn't it be? We're still holding the students accountable to Christian standards. We're still teaching them the same things in theology, Bible classes, GNED, etc. We're just allowing them to dress like typical Christian college students and giving them the responsibility to make decisions on when they go to bed.

[flamesfilmguy]

Here's the Thing 14.
1. LU does not really screen the people they allow into the school. therefore those people you have sitting next to you in the lab may not be christians....

So because they aren't Christian, we should change the rules for them? or expect them not to follow them? That is completely irrelevant. The main issue is Mommy and Daddy write a check for them to come here, and they get to go to school. They don't bother to read the rules before coming here... If the parents want them to follow the rules, then teach them... don't send them to Liberty and hope they catch on. Or send them to boot camp.

I like how you said "forced into rules"... no one is forced into anything ffg. This is a private school that accepts applications and grants people admission if they qualify. I don't see any forcing. The main issue is, the people who isng up need to know what they are getting themselves into, and read the rules. Ever since you were a kid you knew to read the rules before you started something... so why go to college without reading the rules?

I am all for anyone who wants to come here to come here. I am NOT for us changing the rules because people are breaking them and everyone is too scared to enforce them. I hear people all the time talking about how they sneak out after curfew or what they do with their girlfriends... and it ticks me off. I follow the rules as much as I can and I feel cheated when I see someone walk into class in a T-Shirt, a Hat, and a lip ring, and I know that if I wore my Bucs jersey and no collared shirt someone would pull me aside. (and not just because its the Bucs).

I am sick of people whining and crying about how the rules are dumb. We are within an hour or so of Tech and UVa, if you aren't happy here, feel free to try there. This is Liberty, it's different, now try to follow the rules that you signed a contract for, or get the heck out.

First off. i didn't sign that contract. second you are taking what i'm saying out of context. when i say "forced" I mean if you don't follow them you get "kicked out" or at least thats how its supposed to be. I hate to tell you man but most of the rules are legalistic. and i hate that. but you know what? i'm not gonna go to tech or UVA because one i can't get into those schools and two i like Liberty. yea i understand we are supposed to respect our authorities but come on. honestly, do you think that hair code and curfew are keeping us out of truoble? no. people who want to break the rules no matter what kind of rules are in place. I'm not saying completly do away with rules but take rules out that are pointless. like curfew and the hair code. and maybe leave dress code up to departments within the school. its not fair to the good kids on campus who wouldn't abuse curfew. to assume that everyone out past midnight is up to no good. that is legalistic thinking. you can keep telling me and others who agree to just leave but if thats the attitude the school takes then i have a feeling the school would have 4000-5000 less students real fast.

[flamesfilmguy]

I think it boils down to this:

The moral issues stay. Drinking, smoking, sexual issues, etc. That stuff doesn't get changed.

The dumb stuff goes. Dress code, curfew, hair code, etc. Get rid of it.

Hold us accountable as Christians and the way we should act as Christians. Don't make us look a certain way while doing it though.

Enter Voice of reason via SJ

[MacGeek]

Why wouldn't it be? We're still holding the students accountable to Christian standards. We're still teaching them the same things in theology, Bible classes, GNED, etc. We're just allowing them to dress like typical Christian college students and giving them the responsibility to make decisions on when they go to bed.

But that would mean that Liberty has less control over you, therefore interfering with the training on becoming a champion for Christ.

[SuperJon]

I'm noticing sarcasm. I thought it might be there in the first post, but I'm tired and may have missed it.

[Just John]

Wow.....wish my RA's were afraid to write people up in '80. I might have been able to stay.

I appreciate the softening of the rules as it will allow for dealing more with heart issues and not so much legalism.....at least as much as there was back in the day. I do hope though that LU will not eventually go the way of a Baylor for the sake of growth.

[Just John]

I think it boils down to this:

The moral issues stay. Drinking, smoking, sexual issues, etc. That stuff doesn't get changed.

The dumb stuff goes. Dress code, curfew, hair code, etc. Get rid of it.

Hold us accountable as Christians and the way we should act as Christians. Don't make us look a certain way while doing it though.

I can't disagree.

[ToTheLeft]

First off. i didn't sign that contract. second you are taking what i'm saying out of context. when i say "forced" I mean if you don't follow them you get "kicked out" or at least thats how its supposed to be. I hate to tell you man but most of the rules are legalistic. and i hate that. but you know what? i'm not gonna go to tech or UVA because one i can't get into those schools and two i like Liberty. yea i understand we are supposed to respect our authorities but come on. honestly, do you think that hair code and curfew are keeping us out of truoble? no. people who want to break the rules no matter what kind of rules are in place. I'm not saying completly do away with rules but take rules out that are pointless. like curfew and the hair code. and maybe leave dress code up to departments within the school. its not fair to the good kids on campus who wouldn't abuse curfew. to assume that everyone out past midnight is up to no good. that is legalistic thinking. you can keep telling me and others who agree to just leave but if thats the attitude the school takes then i have a feeling the school would have 4000-5000 less students real fast.

1. You did sign a contract. You agreed to be a Liberty Student by paying them tuition. You made an agreement.
2. That's not forcing people. Saying follow the rules or leave is what EVERYONE does, that's why they are rules and not suggestions!
3. People breaking the rules is never a reason to get rid of rules. In fact, it should lead to more rules.
4. I hate Skip Bayless, but he is right on one. Nothing good ever happens after midnight, anywhere. I can understand having a late night place on campus to chill, but letting college aged kids off campus is begging them to do wrong! You can't have it both ways, and since Liberty is serious about being a school that is Christian and distinctly Christian, they err on the side of caution.

I like how you label it legalistic. I tend to think it is just trying to set us apart. Don't like it? Don't pay for it. It's as easy as that. There are other places with less selective admissions that don't have these rules. Indiana State comes to mind. Don't whine and cry about it, either deal with what you chose to pay for, or take yourself somewhere else.

It is how it is. This is Liberty, we are training Champions for Christ. If you wanted a school that has watered down it's religion, I can give you a list of hundreds. LU is choosing to hold on to what makes it different, and this is how they choose to do it.

[ToTheLeft]

I think it boils down to this:

The moral issues stay. Drinking, smoking, sexual issues, etc. That stuff doesn't get changed.

The dumb stuff goes. Dress code, curfew, hair code, etc. Get rid of it.

Hold us accountable as Christians and the way we should act as Christians. Don't make us look a certain way while doing it though.

Enter Voice of reason via SJ

Yes, "the dumb stuff" is a very reasonable statement.

I am not even saying I agree with all the rules. But thats how it is, that's how this school chooses to run itself. It can do that, you pay for it, so you become a part of that.

[SuperJon]

4. I hate Skip Bayless, but he is right on one. Nothing good ever happens after midnight, anywhere. I can understand having a late night place on campus to chill, but letting college aged kids off campus is begging them to do wrong! You can't have it both ways, and since Liberty is serious about being a school that is Christian and distinctly Christian, they err on the side of caution.

So the times you signed out to my house before a football game, I think it was once or twice, and were out of the dorm after midnight, did something bad happen? No. You chilled out with some friends, went to bed, and then woke up.



Not focusing on the stupid stuff (dress code, curfew, etc) will allow us to truly get to the point of ministering to what the students need. RAs at Liberty should be who people on a hall turn to when they're going through things, along with the SLDs. Instead, a lot of students hate their RAs because they write them up for the stupidest crap in the world, and they end up keeping all of their problems to themselves and try to figure them out on their own. Eliminating the things that don't matter would open us up to the things that really do matter, and to me, that's what this university should be about.