[belcherboy]

I thought this deserved it's own thread, but speaking of Jerry's vision, could we become a Notre Dame/BYU in football? Could we become a top 25 basketball program?

I remember my freshman year when Liberty played UNC in the tourney and played a VERY competitive the first 30 minutes of the game. After the students returned from spring break, many students began discussing how long it would be before we were a legitimate Final Four contender. I couldn't believe that many were saying 3-4 years, with several actually saying in the next 2 years. I would come into the conversation and say, "well if we change conferences, hold the athletes to a different standard, perhaps in 20 years we could create a final four caliber program ." It was funny to hear them mock me. I barely understood how big time athletes think, but I knew Division I athletes (I played with a few). They were borderline level Division I players (one played for University of Detroit-Mercy, a couple played at Western Michigan, and Eastern Michigan). Even they would rather go to a big Division II school than go to a middle of the pack Big South team. Especially a school that had dress codes, hard alcohol/drug rules, curfew, strict co-ed rules, etc.

Having said all that, what are the odds we could build a big football or men's basketball program? IMO, our best case scenario is that we could build a top 50 basketball program that may crack the top 25 every once in a while. Perhaps a team that could make a sweet sixteen run every once in a LONG while. In football, I can't imagine we could ever crack the top 50 without being invited to a major conference. If we went the Notre Dame route and were independent, we would encounter too many problems to help us become successful. If we did get good, no one would play us. If we weren't very good, the lesser teams wouldn't play us because they are looking for big pay days. On top of all that, if we did get a world class coach, he most likely would leave once the program saw significant success.

Maybe my take is wrong, but I'm not sure the system will allow for a small team like Liberty to build into a top 25 program in either men's basketball or football. Maybe there is another men's sport that we could build at top 25 program? Where is my thinking wrong here?

[jcmanson]

First of all, we'd have to get into another conference, i.e. Conference USA and build from there. It is much easier to do in basketball than in football because in bball you only need a handful of players to have a great team.

Top 10?

May be too far of a reach.

Top 25?

I don't see why not, look at where our women's team is and they are doing this in the Big South.

As far as football, if we were to get into a conference like the CUSA, I could see us doing about like BYU does. Most years are winning seasons, occasional top 25 teams.

[flamesfilmguy]

I would say liberty's chances of having a top 25 men's program would be in football. With the staff and facilities in place i think in 1-2 years is even feasable IMHO. definitly in 4-6 years if things go the way they are going.

[PAmedic]

X-country

club hockey

[ToTheLeft]

X-country

club hockey

[jcmanson]

I would say liberty's chances of having a top 25 men's program would be in football. With the staff and facilities in place i think in 1-2 years is even feasable IMHO. definitly in 4-6 years if things go the way they are going.

In I-AA, yes, I-A no not in just a couple years. That's what he's talking about is I-A.

[Fumblerooskies]

Baseball. That's it. That's the list.

(and that is because of the conference's RPI in baseball compared to the other sports).

[jcmanson]

Baseball. That's it. That's the list.

(and that is because of the conference's RPI in baseball compared to the other sports).

But we could change conferences and thus this would be a moot point.

[olldflame]

I don't think our conference holds us back as much in CC or Track as in most sports, since the rankings are based on quantifiable performances. IMHO we have a great coach and he seems to think we can do it.

[prototype]

Track has been in the top 10 several times throughout the last 15 years!!

I think our best chance for women's sports is next year in women's basketball. A couple of things need to happen. We need to win a game in the tournament this year and win the first 15 games next year and have some big games in those games.

Baseball - Football - Basketball: Liberty will be hard pressed to get that high in the major sports. That's not a bad thing, it's just rare. I would take a top 25 in Baseball and Basketball and it would be the biggest thing that ever happen to Liberty - in a men's sport.

Any sport which looks at individual performances - have the best bet. Track, CC, Wrestling, Swimming, Equestrian, Tennis, etc... Those are sports in which you can get a couple ih high level studs and make a huge impact.

[blwall1416]

Bass Fishing...we'd give NC State a run for their money. Guaranteed.

[Sly Fox]

If Drake & Butler can become top 10 in Mens Hoops, anything is possible. Yes, I know their conference affiliations.

[prototype]

If Drake & Butler can become top 10 in Mens Hoops, anything is possible. Yes, I know their conference affiliations.

I guess your right - these are two of the most overrated rankings!! But, you can't ignore their conference - you can ignore ours:)

[belcherboy]

First of all, we'd have to get into another conference, i.e. Conference USA and build from there. It is much easier to do in basketball than in football because in bball you only need a handful of players to have a great team.

Top 10?

May be too far of a reach.

Top 25?

I don't see why not, look at where our women's team is and they are doing this in the Big South.

As far as football, if we were to get into a conference like the CUSA, I could see us doing about like BYU does. Most years are winning seasons, occasional top 25 teams.

I usually don't compare Men's to Women's top 25 because it is much easier to crack women's than men's. After the top 8 teams in the country in women's sports, the quality drops way down IMO. That is why the top 2 teams in the SEC or ACC win the national title just about every year. (correct me if I'm wrong there, I know UConn and Baylor have pretty good programs as well)

I just can't imagine that CUSA (or any top 6 conference) is looking to add a team like Liberty. It would hurt them more than help them. Perhaps a team like Winthrop might be on their radar, but I'm not sure they have a good enough resume to make it (maybe they have been invited to jump ship, but I can't imagine they wouldn't if given the opportunity). In order to get the attention of a CUSA, we would have to have a run in the Big South similar to the last 10 years of our girls program. If we could win the Big South handidly for 10 years, have a sweet sixteen run, and average winning about 23-25 games a season, we could get a better conference offer. IMO, if RM were to pull half of that off, he would have bigger jobs waiting for him.

Same thing in football. We would need sustained success for about 10 years minimum, and by that time we would have gone through a couple of coaches (they would get huge offers if they could turn Liberty into a top 25 team). Going through many coaches doesn't help programs take the next step IMO.

I'd love to see it, but I'm not sure the system will allow for us to move up anytime soon (by soon I mean in the next 15-20 years). On top of that, we are distinctly christian, and I think that would eliminate many athletes from considering us. Not a bad thing, but one of the things that makes it harder to grow a top 25 program .

[ATrain]

Belch, the best Winthrop can hope for is the Atlantic 10 unless they add football.

C-USA would be a great move if we switched subdivisions in football. Though if App State, Ga. Southern, JMU and ODU decide to jump up at the same time, we could join them in a new conference if they'd let us. And yes, we've been through that topic many many times before.

[HenryGale]

Baseball. That's it. That's the list.

(and that is because of the conference's RPI in baseball compared to the other sports).

I really agree, baseball will give us our best shot. Look at what Coastal has done the last few years. With the stadium renovations and Storm in place...good things can happen!

[SuperJon]

Baseball. That's it. That's the list.

(and that is because of the conference's RPI in baseball compared to the other sports).

I really agree, baseball will give us our best shot. Look at what Coastal has done the last few years. With the stadium renovations and Storm in place...good things can happen!

Winthrop was on the brink though before Marshall left. I think basketball is a possibility, but agree that baseball may be our best bet.

[Knucklehead]

Baseball is it.

I concur, Winthrop is a pile of cow extracation!

[thepostman]

Baseball is probably our best bet...basketball?? well, probably not top 10, but we could be a very solid program as more money and more resources become available....Football...on the I-AA level it is possible without a doubt...but on the I-A level we would need some kind of a miracle to be a top 10 model...

all of this of course has already been said one way or another....i just thought I would say I agree with a lot of you guys

[jcmanson]

First of all, we'd have to get into another conference, i.e. Conference USA and build from there. It is much easier to do in basketball than in football because in bball you only need a handful of players to have a great team.

Top 10?

May be too far of a reach.

Top 25?

I don't see why not, look at where our women's team is and they are doing this in the Big South.

As far as football, if we were to get into a conference like the CUSA, I could see us doing about like BYU does. Most years are winning seasons, occasional top 25 teams.

I usually don't compare Men's to Women's top 25 because it is much easier to crack women's than men's. After the top 8 teams in the country in women's sports, the quality drops way down IMO. That is why the top 2 teams in the SEC or ACC win the national title just about every year. (correct me if I'm wrong there, I know UConn and Baylor have pretty good programs as well)

I just can't imagine that CUSA (or any top 6 conference) is looking to add a team like Liberty. It would hurt them more than help them. Perhaps a team like Winthrop might be on their radar, but I'm not sure they have a good enough resume to make it (maybe they have been invited to jump ship, but I can't imagine they wouldn't if given the opportunity). In order to get the attention of a CUSA, we would have to have a run in the Big South similar to the last 10 years of our girls program. If we could win the Big South handidly for 10 years, have a sweet sixteen run, and average winning about 23-25 games a season, we could get a better conference offer. IMO, if RM were to pull half of that off, he would have bigger jobs waiting for him.

Same thing in football. We would need sustained success for about 10 years minimum, and by that time we would have gone through a couple of coaches (they would get huge offers if they could turn Liberty into a top 25 team). Going through many coaches doesn't help programs take the next step IMO.

I'd love to see it, but I'm not sure the system will allow for us to move up anytime soon (by soon I mean in the next 15-20 years). On top of that, we are distinctly christian, and I think that would eliminate many athletes from considering us. Not a bad thing, but one of the things that makes it harder to grow a top 25 program .

I'm not saying we're ready for the C-USA or a conference like that now because we're not. But I do think 10-15 years from now we COULD have a chance at a conference like this. Our women's team is already good enough, track & field as well. The main sports that need to pick it up are the big 3 (football, men's bball, and baseball). Football is headed in the right direction, and I believe Storm and McKay have our other 2 sports headed in the right direction.

Being distinctly Christian CAN be a reason WHY we would be able to grow our program to this level. Why not Liberty? McKay said his recruiting class he has signed is his best ever and that's because of what LU offers. There are many Christian athletes out there that would come here if we were in a bigger conference, and some already do (i.e. McDougal, Feenstra, Frazee, etc).

You say we would need sustained success for 10 years in football but would go through a couple coaches during that time. Who's to say Rocco won't stay here. He might, we don't know. Same thing goes for McKay & Toman. Look at Green & Tolsma. Green could have gone to Clemson if he wanted to. I'm sure Tolsma has had offers to go elsewhere, but wanted to stay here.

By the way, Winthrop is on NOONE's radar to be moving conference. There are too many basketball only schools out there that have the same success they do.

[ATrain]

Since we are talking about great Christian athletes, lets not forget women's tennis player Jordan Jenkins. She was wanted by Ohio State, Florida State, Georgia Tech (2007 National Champs), UNC and several other major programs plus tennis powers like Furman and Pepperdine.

[belcherboy]

First of all, we'd have to get into another conference, i.e. Conference USA and build from there. It is much easier to do in basketball than in football because in bball you only need a handful of players to have a great team.

Top 10?

May be too far of a reach.

Top 25?

I don't see why not, look at where our women's team is and they are doing this in the Big South.

As far as football, if we were to get into a conference like the CUSA, I could see us doing about like BYU does. Most years are winning seasons, occasional top 25 teams.

I usually don't compare Men's to Women's top 25 because it is much easier to crack women's than men's. After the top 8 teams in the country in women's sports, the quality drops way down IMO. That is why the top 2 teams in the SEC or ACC win the national title just about every year. (correct me if I'm wrong there, I know UConn and Baylor have pretty good programs as well)

I just can't imagine that CUSA (or any top 6 conference) is looking to add a team like Liberty. It would hurt them more than help them. Perhaps a team like Winthrop might be on their radar, but I'm not sure they have a good enough resume to make it (maybe they have been invited to jump ship, but I can't imagine they wouldn't if given the opportunity). In order to get the attention of a CUSA, we would have to have a run in the Big South similar to the last 10 years of our girls program. If we could win the Big South handidly for 10 years, have a sweet sixteen run, and average winning about 23-25 games a season, we could get a better conference offer. IMO, if RM were to pull half of that off, he would have bigger jobs waiting for him.

Same thing in football. We would need sustained success for about 10 years minimum, and by that time we would have gone through a couple of coaches (they would get huge offers if they could turn Liberty into a top 25 team). Going through many coaches doesn't help programs take the next step IMO.

I'd love to see it, but I'm not sure the system will allow for us to move up anytime soon (by soon I mean in the next 15-20 years). On top of that, we are distinctly christian, and I think that would eliminate many athletes from considering us. Not a bad thing, but one of the things that makes it harder to grow a top 25 program .

Being distinctly Christian CAN be a reason WHY we would be able to grow our program to this level. Why not Liberty? McKay said his recruiting class he has signed is his best ever and that's because of what LU offers. There are many Christian athletes out there that would come here if we were in a bigger conference, and some already do (i.e. McDougal, Feenstra, Frazee, etc).

I love your enthusiasm and hope you are right, but you must admit that being a distinctly Christian university is a disadvantage. It automatically limits the pool you can recruit in. Perhaps we will become THE Christian school for the top Christian athletes, but I just don't see it ever happening.

You say we would need sustained success for 10 years in football but would go through a couple coaches during that time. Who's to say Rocco won't stay here. He might, we don't know. Same thing goes for McKay & Toman. Look at Green & Tolsma. Green could have gone to Clemson if he wanted to. I'm sure Tolsma has had offers to go elsewhere, but wanted to stay here.

I'm not familiar with Clemson's girls team, are they any good? I really haven't heard much from them, so I'm thinking Green has a much better gig in terms of job security in Lynchburg than at Clemson, but I really don't know. Have any other major teams been sniffing around him?

Regardless, I think if our coaches from major men's sports ever got offered big conference jobs, they would be gone. I wouldn't blame them, but I don't see any of them as "lifers". I could be wrong, but regardless none of the coaches are going anywhere if Liberty doesn't get into better conferences. That is why I think we will never be better than a fringe top 25 team in any top men's sports (fringe meaning that we sniff the top 25 every once in a long while, if ever)

[LUconn]

Look at Green & Tolsma. Green could have gone to Clemson if he wanted to.

I don't know that that's the case.

[JK37]

Track has been in the top 10 several times throughout the last 15 years!!

I think our best chance for women's sports is next year in women's basketball. A couple of things need to happen. We need to win a game in the tournament this year and win the first 15 games next year and have some big games in those games.

Baseball - Football - Basketball: Liberty will be hard pressed to get that high in the major sports. That's not a bad thing, it's just rare. I would take a top 25 in Baseball and Basketball and it would be the biggest thing that ever happen to Liberty - in a men's sport.

Any sport which looks at individual performances - have the best bet. Track, CC, Wrestling, Swimming, Equestrian, Tennis, etc... Those are sports in which you can get a couple ih high level studs and make a huge impact.

had to point it out...

[Rocketfan]

Look at Green & Tolsma. Green could have gone to Clemson if he wanted to.

I don't know that that's the case.

Its not. I just love how its thrown around on here like fact as well.