[Schfourteenteen]

I think everybody has to keep in mind how much the mentality of this issue has changed. When a black person whos over 24 (Smoothie's book: +1 Schfourteenteen) says to me or most other people "you dont understand" hes right. We dont understand, and most likely, we never will. That makes sense. We shouldnt forget where weve come from, and we should never forget the mistakes that have been made in America's past as well as here at LU. At the same point, I can also see where because of all the press and all the emphasis on racism people use that as an excuse as to why some people dont like them.

Simply put, there should be a balance for everything. If not having something like BHM (and all it entails) allows us to forget where weve some from, then we need it, because what went on should not be forgotten. But we also have to be aware of the possibility of a new generation of minorities who take advantage of the provisions made for them in the name of equality.

Everybody gets wierd looks. I mean what happens when i make eye contact with a mexican? Am I being racist because I look wierd? No. Seriously though there needs to be a understanding between a wierd look because of their color and because of their actions. Some people at times use racial tension as a major reason for someone else's behavior when the reasoning may be beyond that. In other words, race really has a minimal effect on why a person is disliked, whether at a restaurant or even in school.

Side note: I can imagine someone of another race meeting RTF and possibly getting that vibe only to find out he just hates every breathing thing.


In other words I have said nothing new under the sun

[bigsmooth]

i can never get the quote machine right so my replies are to matshark's posts in bold.

oh i see smoothie... since im not black i obviously dont know what racism is? thats one of the most ignorant things ive ever heard. did you even read my post?

matshark.....did you even really read my post? i talked about reverse racism. im sure you have experienced racism like your visit to mcdonalds and im sure you may have somewhere else.


guess what, this isnt back in your day. this is NOW. until i walk int eh shoes of a black man i cant make some of those statements? guess what, i DID and i stand behind them 100%. their truth isnt relevant to whatever shoes i walk in. their truth is relevant to EVERY person on the planet.

my day was 89-93 and i was using it as an example. if you do not think racism exists at LU you are blind my friend.

basically what you are REALLY saying is that the only people who can possibly be racists are white. i find that to be highly ignorant AND offensive, not to mention RACIST.

did i call you racist?? no did i imply it no. am i a racist?? heck no. anyone who knows me and many on this board do simply would laugh at that thought

ya know, im not sure how long ago you were at LU, but im sure it was a while ago. guess what, in some shape, form or fashion, it will probably always be on the planet, but by people chaining themselves to it, they will never be free of it. anytime something doesn't go right for them, they will fall back to the excuse of, oh, the system is against me. they wont let me succeed because of my skin color. and as long as that mentality is in place people will make themselves victims of it, regardless of whether or not it actually exists there, because they make it exist in their own minds.

i never use racism as a crutch, but it is fact that it happens but unfortunately many blacks will always use it as a crutch which i wholeheartedly disagree.

apparently you missed the part of my post where i said "i am not a racist, nor do i believe racism is right." whats funny is that myself and my friends (from many different backgrounds and races) never bring this issue up because its simply not relevant to our interaction or our friendship. to us skin color doesn't matter, nor should it. and i find that MANY people at LU feel the same way.

dude did i call you a racist?? no i did not. you have not walked in the shoes of someone is black so you opening your door to BJ means nothing and you won't understand so it is really pointless to try to make you understand. again racism exists everywhere and again if you don't realize that your blind. is it as worse as years ago?? no, but it's still there. im glad it is not such an issue now, but it still exists. agin if you want to put a marker over it and think it's not then you should really open your eyes. LU is not perfect and it's out there.

and i think a lot of people need to let go of the past and let their attitudes continue to change as well. Including yours.

matshark.. . you do not know me .my attiudes have changed. i know racism is better now..but it still exists period. i simply said until you walk in the shoes of someone black you will never really understand. where do you get off saying my attitude needs to change when i was making a point that racism exists and that a white person will never really fully understand?? im gonna bow out of this thread because i have said what i wanted to and kept it civil. and as i said before, you may think you fully understand racism, but you dont IMO.

[thepostman]

this is an honest question and not meant to offend...but why is it called reverse racism?? I have never understood this...iisn't reverse racism just racism with a a slightly different spin on it?? I honestly have never understood that phrase...with that said...a lot of good points said in this thread smoothie...except you're a racist man!!!



I am kidding...seriously great posts man...i think you about summed it up the best way you can when trying to explain yourself to some white guys...

[LUconn]

I'm not speaking for anyone here, but I have heard the agrument that only white people can be racist, because they have the "power". And you've got to have the "power" to be racist. I think it was Spike Lee who said that. But obviously all he has to do is open a dictionary to find that that is not true. I think that's where the term reverse racism comes from.

[thesportscritic]

i've had to deal with people who would give me weird looks because of my size and skin color at LCA when i first moved up here about 12 years ago. I was one of only about 4 or so black people at LCA back then. I was pretty much treated pretty badly throughout the final years of school because i was different and some how i managed not to get kicked out of school because of me not going off on those people and beating the crap out of them. I came from a predominately black christian school in Georgia before i moved up here so i felt very out of place at LCA for a long time. I was never a racists then nor will i never be. I wanted to get to know other people of different colors back home (GA) and really didn't get much of an opportunity. In fact i have a friend who was white back in Elementary School in GA (predominately black school) and she was my best friend then and i still keep in contact with her. I've even had weird looks from people at LU sometimes but not as much as when i was at LCA. It is good to know where you come from and learn about the past and its mistakes so we don't make those mistakes in the now and in the future.

[jcmanson]

Some of us on this forum are blind to what is still out there. I'm 23, and if I would have married a black woman, my family would have disowned me. They wouldn't have even taken the time to get to know her. Racism still exists in some areas, and is a big problem. In most circles it has gotten better, and we can only pray that it continues so. But if we think racism doesn't exist anymore we are blind.

[RagingTireFire]

i see nothing wrong with raising awareness. now im sure the day will come when hispanics and maybe asians may wants the same thing. i know for myself i do not know a lot about hispanics or asians who have made impacts in the US, so i would not mind knowing more.

I don't really give a crap about the whole black/white thing so I'll let the rest of you hash that out. However, just for the record, there already is an Asian History Month. You just don't hear much about it in schools because A). Asians are a much smaller minority and B). it happens to be in May. As far as Asian history goes, all you really need to know about Asian history is this: We invented everything and you all owe us back royalties.

[LUconn]

There's a Hispanic Heritage month as well. And also a women's one. They're just not as popular.

[matshark]

you have not walked in the shoes of someone is black so you opening your door to BJ means nothing and you won't understand so it is really pointless to try to make you understand.

thats such a BS argument. until you walk in the shoes...? oh wait, "you wont ever walk in the shoes, so you can't possibly understand..." don't give me that crap. thats a circular argument at is finest, not to mention defining your terms however you please. come on smoothie, its obvious you've been hurt by it, and it wasn't right, but dont take it out and hold it over the head's of everyone you run into for the rest of your life.

i simply said until you walk in the shoes of someone black you will never really understand. where do you get off saying my attitude needs to change when i was making a point that racism exists and that a white person will never really fully understand?? im gonna bow out of this thread because i have said what i wanted to and kept it civil. and as i said before, you may think you fully understand racism, but you dont IMO.

the point is that your attitude needs to change b/c you have some issue with "white" people "never really fully" understanding it. wtf do you want? EVERYONE to go through whatever you went through so that you can somehow be vindicated? what's somebody gotta do to "fully" understand racism? apparently its something more than knowing what racism is and being totally against it...

and in the sports critics case, hes right. he did go through a lot of crap at LCA. the kids in our class were morons and a large percentage of them are/were members of the future career criminals of america.... SC being something like 6'4 they all seemed to try to poke the giant to see if he would get mad. gotta love private 'christian' schools... and for the record SC, i would have LOVED to see you go off on some people. most of them would have deserved exactly what they got.

[LUconn]

thats such a BS argument. until you walk in the shoes...? oh wait, "you wont ever walk in the shoes, so you can't possibly understand..." don't give me that crap. thats a circular argument at is finest, not to mention defining your terms however you please. come on smoothie, its obvious you've been hurt by it, and it wasn't right, but dont take it out and hold it over the head's of everyone you run into for the rest of your life.

This isn't like a professional debate or something. That argument may not be fair for a rebuttal but if that's the case then that's the case.

[bigsmooth]

matshark your whole tone is combatative. im done talking about this with you because you can't have a civil conversation. if you want to talk privately i would welcome that but you attacking me and telling me i have been "hurt" by racism is a crazy statement. you do not know me nor do you know my background and had you known that you would realize what what a dumb statement that really is. we will just have to agree to disagree.

[givemethemic]

you have not walked in the shoes of someone is black so you opening your door to BJ means nothing and you won't understand so it is really pointless to try to make you understand.

thats such a BS argument. until you walk in the shoes...? oh wait, "you wont ever walk in the shoes, so you can't possibly understand..." don't give me that crap. thats a circular argument at is finest, not to mention defining your terms however you please. come on smoothie, its obvious you've been hurt by it, and it wasn't right, but dont take it out and hold it over the head's of everyone you run into for the rest of your life.

i simply said until you walk in the shoes of someone black you will never really understand. where do you get off saying my attitude needs to change when i was making a point that racism exists and that a white person will never really fully understand?? im gonna bow out of this thread because i have said what i wanted to and kept it civil. and as i said before, you may think you fully understand racism, but you dont IMO.

the point is that your attitude needs to change b/c you have some issue with "white" people "never really fully" understanding it. wtf do you want? EVERYONE to go through whatever you went through so that you can somehow be vindicated? what's somebody gotta do to "fully" understand racism? apparently its something more than knowing what racism is and being totally against it...

and in the sports critics case, hes right. he did go through a lot of crap at LCA. the kids in our class were morons and a large percentage of them are/were members of the future career criminals of america.... SC being something like 6'4 they all seemed to try to poke the giant to see if he would get mad. gotta love private 'christian' schools... and for the record SC, i would have LOVED to see you go off on some people. most of them would have deserved exactly what they got.

Matshark, I am pretty sure I know who you are... But I went to LCA for 10 years and my best friend for the last 4 years was the only black person in our class and he got treated very good and to my knowledge he never got a bunch of crap. I have known Smoothie for 3 years now and he is like my big brother and let me tell you that I have never seen one bit of racism out of him and I am pretty sure that he has NO issuses with White people. I feel very fortunate to have been raised in a house where it didn't matter what color you were or what type of person you were, the door to our house was always open.

[Rocketfan]

you have not walked in the shoes of someone is black so you opening your door to BJ means nothing and you won't understand so it is really pointless to try to make you understand.

thats such a BS argument. until you walk in the shoes...? oh wait, "you wont ever walk in the shoes, so you can't possibly understand..." don't give me that crap. thats a circular argument at is finest, not to mention defining your terms however you please. come on smoothie, its obvious you've been hurt by it, and it wasn't right, but dont take it out and hold it over the head's of everyone you run into for the rest of your life.

i simply said until you walk in the shoes of someone black you will never really understand. where do you get off saying my attitude needs to change when i was making a point that racism exists and that a white person will never really fully understand?? im gonna bow out of this thread because i have said what i wanted to and kept it civil. and as i said before, you may think you fully understand racism, but you dont IMO.

the point is that your attitude needs to change b/c you have some issue with "white" people "never really fully" understanding it. wtf do you want? EVERYONE to go through whatever you went through so that you can somehow be vindicated? what's somebody gotta do to "fully" understand racism? apparently its something more than knowing what racism is and being totally against it...

and in the sports critics case, hes right. he did go through a lot of crap at LCA. the kids in our class were morons and a large percentage of them are/were members of the future career criminals of america.... SC being something like 6'4 they all seemed to try to poke the giant to see if he would get mad. gotta love private 'christian' schools... and for the record SC, i would have LOVED to see you go off on some people. most of them would have deserved exactly what they got.

Matshark, I am pretty sure I know who you are... But I went to LCA for 10 years and my best friend for the last 4 years was the only black person in our class and he got treated very good and to my knowledge he never got a bunch of crap. I have known Smoothie for 3 years now and he is like my big brother and let me tell you that I have never seen one bit of racism out of him and I am pretty sure that he has NO issuses with White people. I feel very fortunate to have been raised in a house where it didn't matter what color you were or what type of person you were, the door to our house was always open.

However inside his house....no books on grammar exist.

[TIMSCAR20]

Matshark, I can tell you that if you don't think racism exists then I have to agree with Smoothie: You need to walk in a black man's shoes for a moment. JCManson is telling you point blank that he has people in his family that would disown him if he married a black girl. Is that not racism? Of course it is. Accusing smoothie of having a problem with white people made me LOL! You REALLY don't know him that is for sure. I don't want to get into people using racism as a crutch because clearly some do. But that doesn't lessen that fact that racism exists. I grew up in Philly and there are many Italian and Polish neighborhoods that I don't go into to this day or at least am on guard because they don't like blacks or they don't trust blacks because of their experience with a handful. It seems black people, like no other group gets judged collectively for wrong actions of a few. Don't say that blacks do that to whites either. The bad actions were by more than a few and as I said before were government sanctioned. I have family members who can tell stories of friends or family being hung or beaten for mearly looking at a white female. Clearly times have changed or I wouldn't be alive today . No one is arguing the progress of race relations but to say get over it or it doesn't exist is not real. My wife has family members that have disowned her because she married me. Thank God her parents were not like that though. In college at Liberty when Smoothie and I went to school, interracial dating was frowned upon and a few years before we got there you had to get permission from the WHITE parents to date interracially. Is that not racist? Of course it is. It implies that whites are better and you should have permission to fraternize with their kids. We are not talking 1865 hear folks. We act like that stuff was a long time ago but it is in our lifetime and to some extent still exists.

[TIMSCAR20]

I don't want to get into affirmative actions and the Rooney Rule but clearly those things were and are to some extent necessary. It is narrow minded to think that there were no black coaches in the NFL prior to Art Shell in the late 80's because there simply were none qualified. It is narrow to think that Doug Williams was the 1st black QB to win the Superbowl because he was the first to be good enough or Tony Dungy is the 1st black coach to even coach in let alone win the SB because he was the 1st one good enough. Ending slavery didn't end institutional suppression of black people. We couldn't even vote for 100 years after slavery! To say racism doesn't exist means you probably don't know enough black people or your experience and attitudes of people you interract with are positive towards blacks. That is a good thing. But don't think that everyone's experiences are that way.

[Sly Fox]

I too got a big laugh out of the suggestion that Smoothie has issues with white people.

For the record, IMHO the most outrageous statements in this thread were directed toward Hispanics (and they didn't seem to raise many eyebrows). But then again I come from a very different perspective than most on the board.

And RTF, I would suggest that here in Houston that Asians probably receive the most discrimination of any race. But that doesn't get much run since culturally it is considered bad form to make a stink about it.

[Realist]

I'll say this, racism existed in my childhood. When I was 12 years old a black family moved in next door to us. My dad was the only one who went over and actually spoke to the family. No one else did, ever. One of the kids was my age and I started going over to play basketball with the dad and two brothers, and they would come over to play football and play nintendo. My mom would pick me up at school and my buddy was the same age and grade and would ride home with us so he didn't have to take the bus. All of sudden, the other kids in the neighborhood stopped being friends with me......I didn't think much of it then because I was too young, and I had more fun playing ball and video games with them, but when I look back on it, it was pretty obvious. We then moved to a new neighborhood where I made some new friends, but when my buddy would drive over, my new friends wouldn't show up or do anything. I actually asked my parents about it years ago and they said it was definitely true, their dad had told mine that we were the only people who ever even spoke to them.

I don't think it is as prevalent as it once was, but I'm not that old and it was definitely true back then.

[RagingTireFire]

And RTF, I would suggest that here in Houston that Asians probably receive the most discrimination of any race. But that doesn't get much run since culturally it is considered bad form to make a stink about it.

Duly noted.

Addendum to RTF's plans for 2008 Summer Vacation in Houston:

1. Do not bring the collected works of Ang Lee on DVD.
2. Do not describe to everyone within earshot the comic genius that is Bobby Lee. No, really.
3. Answer when referred to with variations of Ching Chow, Hop Sing and Number One Son.
4. Attempt to mentally calculate long division upon command.
5. Do not mess with Texas.
6. Add National Guard hotline to speed-dial.
7. In case of mob emergency, memorize phrase, "Hey, there's Jessica Simpson! And she's got a bag full of Romo's (foot)balls!"

[Sly Fox]

For the record, there are approximately 700k of Asian descent in Greater Houston.

Bobby Lee ....

[cheerbren]

Ok for those who don't know (I did not until I was told a few years back) Hispanic is an offensive term to Latino/Chicano people. I am a Johnson by adoption so I am not offended and I did not know that even a Hispanic month or women's month are out there. I am mexican/native american and look very different here in MN in the suburbs. Racism comes in so many forms and it comes from so many sides - I just don't care about it. I was called all kinds of names in school (not Liberty) because I am a half-breed as Cher would put it. How you feel about mankind, if you are trying to love like Christ, your heart will ache that some people can not walk into a store, black or white, without being knocked down a level.

[Sly Fox]

Actually down here in Texas, Hispanic is the most common term of self-description (yes, I know it was created by the government as a catch-all term) while Latino is generally preferred. I know my family members don't like Chicano because it has militant overtones.

Cheerbren - I think you might be very surprised of the ethnic makeup of many of the posters in this thread but also the board in general. We're a rather diverse bunch. That's why some of the comments in this thread riled up more than a few people.

[cheerbren]

I got that feeling that there was many different ethnicities and feel that we all get along pretty well and glad this is a race free zone. The internet really helps with that huh?

[flamesbball84]

i'm not racist, but I hate the fact that during Black History Month and whenever you learn about slavery in History class that the teachers always fail to teach the fact that slavery existed long before America had it. I also hate the fact that the teachers make it out to be that slavery was some grand scheme concocted by the Americans, thus making the Americans look even more evil than already depicted. I also hate the fact that they blatantly and knowingly exclude the fact that the slaves were sold to the slave traders by the Africans themselves, the slave traders didn't just come in and steal all of them like your secondary educators make it out to be. Not that I'm saying the africans are to be blamed for all of it, but they didn't exactly hinder the slavery movement by any means. Also, I hate how most educators refuse to teach the fact that slavery was on the way out in the South before the Civil War and there was a plan for gradual removal of slavery. They wanted to do it gradually, not suddenly, to be sure that the Slaves would haave been prepared to live on their own - a concept which the Abolitionists failed to recognize because they were to intently focused on making the Slaves free rather than preparing them for their post-Slavery life..

Also, if there is going to continue to be a singling out of certain races, then Native Americans should have a month devoted to them that's as widely celebrated as Black History Month - the key point here being "as widely celebrated as Black History Month." Like someone else said, i dont use hyphenated Americans. You can't be an African-American if you've never even been to Africa, much less lived there long enough to be a citizen. If that was the case, then I would demand to be called a European-American. The Native Americans (NAs) were one of the biggest reasons why European settlements in America were able to survive. If not for them cooperating with the Europeans, providing them with food, teaching them various other things, and fighting alongside the Americans against invaders, all of the European settlements would have failed.

So how did our ancestors reward them for the immense amount of help they provided? They raped their women and children, they pillaged and destroyed their villages, they stole their food, they forced them to make "trades" that negatively effected the NAs, they enslaved them, they pushed them further and further west away from their home land, they segregated them and to this day continue to segregate them into their own settlements (or whatever the official word is for them), and they virtually implemented a country wide pogrom against the NAs.

Our ancestors enslaved the Blacks, but - excuse my language - dangit at least there wasn't virtually a country wide pogrom (to my knowledge that is) established to rid the US of all the Blacks. At least when the Blacks were enslaved they were given a residence and food and treated extremely poorly, but to me I'd rahter be in that situation than be the target of extermination.

[thepostman]

oh gosh...i can see the can of worms is being opened wide open now....

this seems to be a topic being talked about by a lot of people around campus these days....All I can say is it will be nice when we are in a place where we don't need a month to talk about black history...but sadly in many areas of the country both north and south a month is needed in order for teachers to actually even talk about it....

[LUconn]

ahahahaha. Hey, sorry about that whole slavery thing but at least we didn't kill you! You should be thanking us!