[Hold My Own]

Let me ask this....if in this world we want equality and we want everybody to be one (this includes women being treated the same as men) at some point do we need to not celebrate this month? I have mixed feelings on the topic. It's like the Roony (sp?) rule in the NFL, at some point these good ole boy owners will die off (good) and they will want the best person for the job (who will put more money in their pocket). If we continue to give special treatment I think it's really sending the wrong message to our kids that didnt live in times where everything was tense. I can only think about my sister asking my dad or myself "why does that team have to interview a Black coach?" and the answer to that question is easy and right...but it instills in her mind that they are to be treated differently



Again, I dont know...I go back and forth on this and can see sides to every side



and I realize this doesnt have to do with MALX but it does deal with the month.....soooo I'm not to far off?!

[4everfsu]

I am againist any group having a national xxxxx history month unless you have a mexican history, or jewish history month,etc. So basically everyone has one or no one does. Heck the Irish were persecuted when they came to America, there are cartoons of them being portrayed as monkeys.

[Hold My Own]

I am againist any group having a national xxxxx history month unless you have a mexican history, or jewish history month,etc. So basically everyone has one or no one does. Heck the Irish were persecuted when they came to America, there are cartoons of them being portrayed as monkeys.

I really believe Mexicans are the new African Americans...yet I dont see a leader rising up like MLK did.

..I know that seems like a funny statement but I'm serious, unfortunately they dont help themselves by many being illegal but maybe that's something that can be worked out

[FlamingChick]

That's a very good point, FlamingChick. I was simply looking at a narrow view of what it might do to contributions. However...
...what if were European History Month and the school was talking about Hitler (as some may say that he did some good for Germany early on...especially in the infrastructure after WW-I)?

Hitler is a part of European History. Kids learn about Hitler in school, just like they learn about Martin Luther King Jr and Malcolm X. Why sugar coat it? It is what it is--History. Who was it that said, "Those who ignore History are doomed to repeat it" ? Anyways, I think all of this is perfectly fine as the intent is to raise awareness, and not necessarily to force the views on the students, or for LU to show support of any of the individuals presented. Knowledge is Power, right?

[jmdickens]

Go to Germany and ask them about 1941-1945.....They do not learn about Hitler. They learn about the evil Jews

[Fumblerooskies]

Hitler tried to unite Germany...under an umbrella of hate. Malcolm-X tried to unite the blacks...under an umbrella of hate. For me...that is one too many similarities for our university to be advertising in public literature.

If I have learned nothing else from a Conflict Resolution class I am taking...one of the best ways to UNITE is to embrace similarities among cultures...not to embrace and argue about differences...which usually further divides.

[FlamingChick]

I really believe Mexicans are the new African Americans...yet I dont see a leader rising up like MLK did.

I can understand that statement. There is a lot of racism towards Mexicans, just like there is still racism against Blacks--though not as prevalent as in the past. The major difference though is, Mexicans choose to come to America, but Blacks were initially brought to America against their will as slaves. Mexicans legally in the U.S. have the same freedom and rights as everyone else, which is what is so great about our Country.

[Hold My Own]

I really believe Mexicans are the new African Americans...yet I dont see a leader rising up like MLK did.

I can understand that statement. There is a lot of racism towards Mexicans, just like there is still racism against Blacks--though not as prevalent as in the past. The major difference though is, Mexicans choose to come to America, but Blacks were initially brought to America against their will as slaves. Mexicans legally in the U.S. have the same freedom and rights as everyone else, which is what is so great about our Country.

That statement I made is really a tough statement for people to actually give thought about rather than just laugh like its some sort of joke and dismiss it....maybe that's where the problem lies....nothing is fixed over night and nothing comes easy...all in due time it will work out for them to as long as they are proactive and not reactive

[FlamingChick]

Malcolm-X tried to unite the blacks...under an umbrella of hate.

....and later recanted his earlier statements after he broke away from the Nation of Islam and emphasized change and unity through pride and self-respect, instead of leaning on hate and revenge...

[jmdickens]

Malcolm-X tried to unite the blacks...under an umbrella of hate.

....and later recanted his earlier statements after he broke away from the Nation of Islam and emphasized change and unity through pride and self-respect, instead of leaning on hate and revenge...

That does not justify him being represented as a symbol for peace. Hitler often stated that he came in the name of peace, enough so that many Americans felt he was the best hope for Germany. Don't try to paint a canvas over what Malcolm X did. He preached hate, just like Hitler.

[ToTheLeft]

In regards to what you guys are saying about the generational gap.

I totally understand. There is a totally different atmosphere today. If for years and years I was pointlessly hated and held down and hurt and taunted, I wouldn't just move on and shake hands and act like nothing happened.

I totally understand that. I just know that, anymore, it seems like we lift up these men as if they were saviors, when all they were were just people fighting for a cause that shouldn't have needed to be fought for. So I commend them for their courage, and for their strength, but I just don't see why we continue to single them out because of the color of their skin.

Every day of the year, somewhere in America, kids should be learning about the history of this country. They should learn that the African American kid sitting next to them, or the Haitian kid the row behind them, or the Japanese kid in the front row, wouldn't have been able to be in that class with them back when grandma and grandpa where in school. They need to learn that people are people and that we should respect everyone and only determine someones worth based on who they are, not what they look like.

I think making some big spectacle out of it just perpetuates the cycle. We single out blacks as different, when they aren't different.

My best friends in elementary school were black, and when I learned about how blacks were treated in the history of this country, it was just kinda a "that sucks" moment. I didn't even connect it with them. However, for people old enough to have been affected by it, and for those even today who have to deal with it, I do feel bad.

And I don't want to seem insensitive. I just don't find it to be a big deal in my life, for selfish reasons. But that's mainly because I don't understand racism at all, not because I don't feel for people who are hated because the color of their skin.

I basically just said the same thing over, I just wanna be sure you guys know where I am coming from. I hate the thought of racism, and don't understand it at all. So any belittling I do of this is only because I personally don't find it a big deal, but I understand if some of you do, and I don't mean to insult you with how I feel about it.

[FlamingChick]

Malcolm-X tried to unite the blacks...under an umbrella of hate.

....and later recanted his earlier statements after he broke away from the Nation of Islam and emphasized change and unity through pride and self-respect, instead of leaning on hate and revenge...

That does not justify him being represented as a symbol for peace. Hitler often stated that he came in the name of peace, enough so that many Americans felt he was the best hope for Germany. Don't try to paint a canvas over what Malcolm X did. He preached hate, just like Hitler.

Not painting a canvas, just stating that he later realized he was wrong--thank God. Who ever represented him as a symbol for peace? I don't think anyone in their right mind would say that, b/c CLEARLY he was the total opposite. He was a major figure during the Civil Rights Movement, whether we agree with what he preached or not. That is why he is recognized during Black History Month.

[matshark]

mexicans are NOT the new blacks. (I say blacks because i subscribe to the teddy roosevelt way of thinking that people should only be americans, not a something (hypen) american. I come from many backgrounds, but I am an american first and foremost and my allegiance belongs to her, and anyone who would prefer otherwise should get the heck out of my country).

By mexicans, i can only think you mean illegal immigrants. slaves were brought here against their will. illegals sneak in out of their OWN free will, oh, and flaunt their actions at the law and snub their noses at the hard working, law abiding citizens of this fine country like you and I.

first off, anyone who is an american citizen is an american. anyone who is not in this country legally (i.e. illegal immigrants) ahs no right to be here, and should A. get the **** out NOW and B. get in line like everyone else did. the reason illegals are not welcome here, or are talked down upon, or otherwise not given the same opportunities as everyone else is quite simple, they do not have the right to, nor do they deserve them and the blessings of this great land until they are willing to accept and adhere to its laws.

now on to 'black' history month. i do not care about black history month, nor white history month, nor any other kind of history month, nor awareness months or any other kind of months.

i am not a racist, nor do i believe that racism is right, however i am sick of having the issue of racism held over the heads of citizens who never had slaves, nor believe that slavery is right, by people who were never slaves, nor were their parents slaves.

As a case in point, the center 4 me at lu, run by a friend of mine, is having a session on "Being Black at Liberty."

https://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=5 ... N=69480016

This actually quite incenses me, and as an Alum, I demand to know how being black at Liberty is any different than being white, or asian, or hispanic or purple with pink polka dots. IF in fact there is racism at LU, then the Federal Government should be called in to deal with it and the university should be sued. Since I believe this to be merely a cheap ploy to gain coverage for a problem that does not exist, I am not happy.

By acting as if being black at liberty is somehow any different than being a student from any other race, it by default throws a pall of racism over the student body and institution as a whole - something that is entirely unfair and uncalled for. In fact, IMO it cheapens the struggles that happened during the civil rights movement.

In fact, I believe that by drawing attention to a problem that does not exist (i.e. this thing at LU) it actually gives students an excuse for why they may be having a difficult time at LU or having problems with their school work, etc... instead of taking responsibility for their own actions.

As an outside observer, I firmly believe that most problems in life could be solved through taking responsibilities for ones own actions, hard work and perseverance. The moment one stops believing that they are responsible for where they are, and what they accomplish, they become useless people who will be battered about by the events and people around them, always blaming someone else for their own shortcomings that they have neither the will or fortitude to change.

No one who ever achieved ANYTHING, did so while allowing outside forces to determine their destiny. Because of this it is my utmost belief that things such as this "Being Black at Liberty" do a dis-service to ALL hardworking people of EVERY race by detracting from their own individual accomplishments and making it appear as if achievement is determined by something other than personal effort and determination.

Now, while I am sorry that racism does exist in the United States in small pockets, take heart in the fact that it will die out as those that carry that view take the eternal dirtnap. However, I feel justified in saying that I myself have been a victim of racism in the US. Actually at a McDonalds in Richmond. Myself and one other gentleman were the only two white people there. We were not given the opportunity to order for almost 30 minutes while standing inline as we were repeatedly ignored or otherwise looked over as everyone, including people who had just stepped in the door were served before us. (and YES, we WERE in line...)

Besides ticking me off (because all i wanted was a sausage biscuit) and being made to wait until JUST after they stopped serving breakfast...how nice... it does allow me to challenge face to face all who believe that racism belongs only to whites, and CAN ONLY belong to whites. In fact, there are ignorant people in EVERY part of society, in EVERY race who wish to hold grudges that are not their own, and grind an axe that was buried long ago and to those people I proudly say that EVERY month is KISS MY A** month!

cheers!

[Fumblerooskies]

Smoothie...so much for the civil discourse

[jcmanson]

But I also believe us Old Hags have a different take on racism than the younger set based on how far things have come in the past 2-3 decades. Not that there is true equality in America, but overt racism other than toward Arabs has practically disappeared. Hopefully we'll see the day when even the covert racism disappears as well.

I don't consider myself an Old Hag yet, but I think I'm right with some of you on racism. To me it matters a LOT where you grew up.

[jmdickens]

....and later recanted his earlier statements after he broke away from the Nation of Islam and emphasized change and unity through pride and self-respect, instead of leaning on hate and revenge...

That does not justify him being represented as a symbol for peace. Hitler often stated that he came in the name of peace, enough so that many Americans felt he was the best hope for Germany. Don't try to paint a canvas over what Malcolm X did. He preached hate, just like Hitler.

Not painting a canvas, just stating that he later realized he was wrong--thank God. Who ever represented him as a symbol for peace? I don't think anyone in their right mind would say that, b/c CLEARLY he was the total opposite. He was a major figure during the Civil Rights Movement, whether we agree with what he preached or not. That is why he is recognized during Black History Month.

He was a major figure b/c of what he preached.....if he just said things as MLK, he would have been overlooked

[Sly Fox]

Smoothie...so much for the civil discourse

I'm just trying to figure out who he angered the most? My guess is I'm not the only one.

[bigsmooth]

matshark with all due respect obviously you are not black so you have zero clue how it is to be black at a mainly white school. i will get into the percentages later as i just got home, but some of your comments bleed of ignorance. their is racism at every college campus and it is worse at other schools but back in my day at LU most blacks were athletes and were clearly looked at different. back then interracial dating was looked down on at liberty. let's face it the beginning days of TRBC and LCA excludes blacks. let me tell you there is nothing worse than going into a place to eat and being stared at because of the color of your skin or a store clerk looking at you with an evil eye because they think im gonna steal something. of course there is reverse racism and im sorry you had that happened to you at MCD'S but re-read your post. until you walk the shoes of a black person you just cant make some of those statements. and as manson said a lot of racsim comes from what part of the country you are from. and again i say it's not just blacks that suffer from racism. hispanics do as well and all other nationalities. with all of this said, i grew up in all white schools growing up and my first encounter with "real racism" was at LU. but when you educate people things can change. im done now, im going to bed. thanks for the time.

[BJWilliams]

As a black person like you smoothie, I do agree with much of what you said. I still get some very strange looks from people who know me very well and I am very dear friends with. I went to a school where there were no more than 3 or 4 other black kids in my class. In fact, by the time I graduated high school, there were only 4 or 5 black students in the entire high school 9-12. I could be walking along and I see someone and I offer a very friendly hello, and all they say is hi, give me a weird look, and keep walking. I also have to deal with getting extra scrutiny when I walk into stores. I even have to be extra careful when I get pulled over by the police. The people that know me well enough know that I am not a black person according to many of the stereotypes that people may have of black people, and that is why they are my friends.

[matshark]

oh i see smoothie... since im not black i obviously dont know what racism is? thats one of the most ignorant things ive ever heard. did you even read my post?

guess what, this isnt back in your day. this is NOW. until i walk int eh shoes of a black man i cant make some of those statements? guess what, i DID and i stand behind them 100%. their truth isnt relevant to whatever shoes i walk in. their truth is relevant to EVERY person on the planet.

basically what you are REALLY saying is that the only people who can possibly be racists are white. i find that to be highly ignorant AND offensive, not to mention RACIST.

ya know, im not sure how long ago you were at LU, but im sure it was a while ago. guess what, in some shape, form or fashion, it will probably always be on the planet, but by people chaining themselves to it, they will never be free of it. anytime something doesn't go right for them, they will fall back to the excuse of, oh, the system is against me. they wont let me succeed because of my skin color. and as long as that mentality is in place people will make themselves victims of it, regardless of whether or not it actually exists there, because they make it exist in their own minds.

instead of a forum on what its like to be a particular race on a particular campus, how about a forum on the great achievements of students who have come from difficult backgrounds? isnt that what black history month is SUPPOSED to be about? overcoming great challenges to finally be judged on the content of one's character? and to that i think as well their ability to dream and accomplish large goals?

how can anyone do that when they are constantly told that the world is against them because of, and that we are all divided by race? and what can be more divisive than a forum on the perceived difficulties of one race over another - due to, none other than the other races holding the first back?

apparently you missed the part of my post where i said "i am not a racist, nor do i believe racism is right." whats funny is that myself and my friends (from many different backgrounds and races) never bring this issue up because its simply not relevant to our interaction or our friendship. to us skin color doesn't matter, nor should it. and i find that MANY people at LU feel the same way.

For example, BJ stayed at my house a couple weeks ago because he needed a place to stay for a couple days. why did i let him stay there? simple, he's my friend and he needed a place to sleep. is that to make a big deal about it? no, but it is to make the point that things now aren't like they apparently were back in your day, and that things tomorrow wont be like they are today. And honestly, some people just need to let things go because harping on them wont accomplish anything good.

LU is changing - and quite rapidly. It is not the place where you went to school, nor are the apparently overt attitudes that you faced there (while wrong) currently present at Liberty now. I had a very good friend of mine fly out to OKC for a conference with me two years ago. We stayed at my grandparents. My friend is black, but i didnt think anything of it, he's my friend because he is my friend. My grandma on the other hand almost had a heart attack for a second when he walked in the door. You see, she and I come from two very different times and the attitudes that she grew up with simply aren't relevant today. And while I think she was caught more off guard than anything, the bottom line is that she loves my friend to death after getting to know him and that her attitude changed from the way she was.

Her attitude changed for the better, and i think a lot of people need to let go of the past and let their attitudes continue to change as well. Including yours.

cheers!

[ATrain]

I can agree with Matshark that its not an issue with those of us who are younger. I had a couple friends go to that race relations thing at EC Glass, and most of the people who attended were over 30. According to them, the 30+ crowd cared about the black/white issue more, while the few there under 30 didn't discuss it b/c it is not a giant issue with our generation. Rather they talked about the Arabs/Muslims and gays/lesbians.

I think as those who were born before and had to experience the segregation of the 60s/70s and then deal with its fallout pass on into eternity, there will be no black/white issue anymore. I hope that one day people in this country will be able to accept other people just for who they are and religion/race/orientation will no longer matter at all.

[matshark]

10-4 Atrain...

[BJWilliams]

I would like to say that I still have a great level of appreciation for you and your family opening your home to me. Having people that care enough to do things like that is the sort of thing that really crosses racial, socioeconomic, religious and all sorts of other barriers that really seem to still be erected in this current day and age.

[ToTheLeft]

erected

[matshark]

lol...no worries BJ, we'll knock em down one at a time

and i think i owe you a box of cereal... urs seems to have disappeared off the planet...hmm...