[Knucklehead]

OK! This is the part where I say some really unpopular things and lose my crown as best Rookie poster, but I have to get this off my chest. I have wanted to say some of these thing before, but held on. After the utter destruction of a valid BBall post game thread, I need to blow!

I just want to ask, are you guys aware that you are students at a Christian University? Look, I have my fun with everyone else and I'm not legalistic by any means. But, some of the conversations go way too far. I hope Sly will have most if not all of that thread deleted. I doubt he will though. Look, if you are a student at a Christian University and you are stupid enough to blert out "Testical" in public at a bball game, you need to leave. The fact that anyone is defending that is shocking to me. If the guy was treated roughly and wrongly then, I hope the folks responsible are dealt with too. But it is out of line to expect that saying "sucks" and "testicle" are OK for a Liberty University student.

I am afraid that this place is starting to become too permissive and beginning to lose what makes it special. At this point we are starting to look like any University anywhere. I am scrimping and saving and all to send my 4 to LU, but I hope it's still LU by then. I am glad that we are admitting kids that may not be saved, but at some point they shoud still have to comfiorm to a set of rules. I am glad that many of the overzealous rules of when I was a student are gone, but you can relax it too far. When you are at a game, stand up and yell and cheer, it's great. You guys are inspiring to me, and will be the reason the fan base will grow. But I feel strongly that we must set an example for the other team's fans, not make them leave wondering if they were at LU or Duke. We are a Christian University and we are supposed to be different.

There I said it, smack me around if you must, but this felt like he had to say something.

[TIMSCAR20]

Knuckle I have to agree with you on this one. Well said.

[jcmanson]

Well said Knuckle and I agree with you.

[JDUB]

we weren't arguing over if what he said was wrong. i think everyone agreed on that. the dude manhandled him trying to make him leave. and there was some other internal stuff that needed sorted out evidently, but its over now and there is no need for a thread bringing it back up. lock it

[Hold My Own]

agreed

It's become a common theme...who's going to try and hold us down tonight, what can we cause drama about. Nothing happens over night and that little section wont become what SJ want while he's at LU, they all have to understand they are just simply starting something that will take years to get right.

I was talking to someone a while ago asking him if he ever comes on here to get info and he said it's gotten to the point where he just cant b/c so many threads will veer off topic and the basketball ones are about individuals rather than the game itself (he only keeps up with basketball)


you just cant get upset every time someone threatens you, bumps you, tries to get you to stop doing something...etc.


Those guys are doing good but they cant lose focus on why they are doing it, ONLY for LU Athletics not for someone to leave a legacy behind

[Knucklehead]

we weren't arguing over if what he said was wrong. i think everyone agreed on that. the dude manhandled him trying to make him leave. and there was some other internal stuff that needed sorted out evidently, but its over now and there is no need for a thread bringing it back up. lock it

It's not just the one incident, it's a repeating theme any more. If it happens, it is an incident that needs to be dealt with.

I can't beleive that mess went on all night with some of the stuff that was said, and you are calling for this thread to be shut down because I call it out of line. It seems that some others agree, and it needs to be discussed.

[Hold My Own]

we weren't arguing over if what he said was wrong. i think everyone agreed on that. the dude manhandled him trying to make him leave. and there was some other internal stuff that needed sorted out evidently, but its over now and there is no need for a thread bringing it back up. lock it

I'm pretty sure this has little or nothing at all to do with the guy being touched I mean, I think we'd all handle that a little differently and to be honest it wouldnt happen again if you go through the proper steps (which it appears they will be)

[Fumblerooskies]

Knucklehead...I will respectfully disagree with you on this. Although I have said many times, that over the past year that LU is starting to have the feel of a "real" university, I speak of the academics and general "feel" of the atmosphere here at LU. The "Liberty Way" is alive and well, and fear not...the secularists are not taking over. Yes...rules (dress code) have been relaxed, but the core philosophy of LU is alive and well. That being said, there are some on campus and in pseudo-power positions who still use coercion and fear in order to "impart their power" and "exert their authority." Apparently, this happened last night, and my understanding was that it was two wrongs.

As far as the "old LU" (I speak back to the 90's) in the Vines Center...I sat on the visitors bench for 8 years...and when the team was going good...the crowd was fanatical and said many of the same things the current students do. LU ranked right up there with Radford and Winthrop in crowd ingenuity...but without with cursing (which should NEVER be tolerated). The main difference now, is that you don't have well-meaning students coming out of the stands to lay hands on injured players from the visiting team (I kid you not...happened twice to my players at UNCA).

Do not think twice about sending your children here...this is a great place and a vibrant campus. Just as the band became better educated on a REAL football atmosphere this past year...it is going to take time to educate the game managers/event "security" that there are changes in basketball as well. Yes, our fans are representatives of LU...especially the LUnatics group. I applaud them for showing that you can have fun at a sporting event and be Christian. I think the entire atmosphere change at LU is a testament to this.

In closing, I suspect Cider Jim can expound on the changes better than I...but as far as the fandom at LU's sporting events...
...BRING IT ON (but keep it clean)! If it cannot be kept clean...I feel the LUnatics will be short-lived...and none of us want that.

[Knucklehead]

I believe your take, as you are much closer to this than I. However, a slow move away from the founding Christian principals can be as dangerous as a quick move. I hope and pray you are right. I don't want this to be the precursor of a downhill trend. I want my kids to go to the same blatantly Christian University I went to. A vibrant Liberty is a powerful evangelical tool here and around the world. A "slipping" Liberty would be a disservice to the cause of Christ everywhere. And that (like it or not) starts in the stands all around campus.

[Ed Dantes]

Here's the thing -- we've had threads on here where people complain about how we are doing a disservice to our Christian testimony because we're CHEERING at basketball games. I'm not talking about saying "sucks!" or "testicle!" ("sucks" shouldn't be said, but I'm not going to get my panties in a wad if it is; someone saying "testicle" should get ejected and reps).

You should be allowed to root for your team and with that, be allowed to cheer if the other team misses a crucial shot. You should be allowed to storm the court after a big win, even if it makes opposing fans feel bad. But we do need to draw the line.

- No profanity (every other university has students that chant "bull-s***" when a ref makes a bad call. A simple "boo!" will do.)
- No sexual references (Like when Rocketfan screamed to ref Duke Edsell "get off your knees ref! You're blowing the game!", or pointing out how half of UNC-Asheville's female cheerleaders are actually dudes.)
- No "sucks". I don't really have a problem, like I said -- but the entire Baptist side does, so we might as well concede this.

Frankly, when the Vines Center is packed, it gives Liberty the best home-field advantages in the Big South. Let's let opposing fans focus on that -- and not us acting like unchristian jack****s.

They deal with that enough at Radford.

[Fumblerooskies]

I can understand where you are coming from. With the great expansion of the student body just in the 7 1/2 years I have been here...there is no way one can believe that there is not a drastic increase in non-Christians in the student body. But guess what...that is a GOOD thing because if we, as faculty, can impact their lives, perhaps the Holy Spirit can convict them. I don't think you have to worry about an erosion, either fast or slow...the leadership team will not allow that. A school can be unabashedly Christian, without being stuffy or too restrictive. From the outside looking in, I can certainly understand how folks would perceive that the school is compromising its principles or integrity...but that is not the case.

[Knucklehead]

Great last 2 posts. Thanks for the honesty and understanding.

BTW-Come to a game with me sometime, I'm the one guy screeming on the Baptist side!

[Fumblerooskies]

Great posts, Dantes...as long as the LUnatics don't create an inferno...all will be good.

Here is my official stance:
Remember...the LUnatics are the first attempt at getting a student group going that is NOT under the thumb of athletics...and if the group is going to flourish and make an impact, it MAY need to slow down a little and not try to FIGHT the system. If you try to fight the LU establishment, you will lose. If you EDUCATE the establishment by demonstrating that you can keep it clean and non-confrontational, then it will be all good...and more students will join in the fun.

[BJWilliams]

Having been at LU as long as I have, Ive gotten a chance to see a lot of things. LU is growing, that cannot be denied. Now Im sure there are things Knuckle that concern you through it all (especially with the number of non-Christians coming in), but even with the changes in the attitudes of some of the students, but there are very good, classy students that are still around and still coming through. I didnt want to mention this publicly because the guys would a) not take it seriously or b) accuse me of grandstanding, but I was hanging around after the game and saw SJ and his bunch waiting to talk to some folks about what went down in the student section (and that story has pretty much been done to death), but I looked around and saw that a few of the facilities guys were cleaning up, and instead of just getting all wound up about what happened tonight, I talked to one of the facilities people, and asked to help. When the game is going on, I am a fan just like any of the other students that show up to the games. When the game is over though, I do not want the last image someone has of me to be negative. I want to leave a positive message in the lives of whoever I come in contact with, whether its at a basketball game, a football game, in the dining hall, or anywhere around campus. Is it because Im some holier than thou person? Heck no! I have made more than my fair share of stupid mistakes and bad decisions. But at the end of the day, I want people to look at me and see that not only am I a good fan, but a follower of Christ who can talk to them and be respectful to them. So Knuckle, take heart that there are good kids out there and there will continue to be at this school, as they continue in the missio of building "champions for Christ"

[Knucklehead]

For the record, I think the LUnatics are great and an idea that is LONG overdue. I apprecate Jon's leadership and his LUnacy towards the LU Athletics programs. I only oppose the potty mouth approach, and get confused when folks become upset at discipline being handed out.

[SuperJon]

Knuckle, I tried staying out of this and letting it go, but you're not going to let me. You are completely off-base with what you just said. No one is complaining about discipline being handed out for what was said last night. Everyone agreed the line ("I can see your testicle") was over the line for Liberty. No one argues that. No one. Not one. Ever. At any time. Either you can't read or you chose not to if you think that was where the problem was. We know that was a line that was crossed. No one argues that. He was not ejected for what he said though. That was not what the argument was about. Being warned not to say it again is fine. We're ok with that. It's the actions that happened after that which caused the problems.

[JDUB]

basically a lot happened last night, and if you weren't there you really can't take a stance because, you weren't there. a lot of it had been slowly building, and like SJ said, none of us ever said it was ok to say what chris said last night. we all agreed he shouldn't have. this isn't about that, its about other stuff.

once again, its over and lets move on. game monday vs vmi

[RubberMallet]

At this point we are starting to look like any University anywhere.

i have no idea of what you are speaking of (talking about balls or whatnot) and i also hope that LU keeps its foundation but this statment had me giggle....apparently you've not been to any university anywhere...


i'm assuming that some people were chanting "youuuu suck" and then some yokle shouted "testicle" afterwards....while adolescently hilarious, it probably has no place being shouted by LU students near the unsaved...or anyone for that matter...

[Rocketfan]

Great posts, Dantes...as long as the LUnatics don't create an inferno...all will be good.

Here is my official stance:
Remember...the LUnatics are the first attempt at getting a student group going that is NOT under the thumb of athletics...and if the group is going to flourish and make an impact, it MAY need to slow down a little and not try to FIGHT the system. If you try to fight the LU establishment, you will lose. If you EDUCATE the establishment by demonstrating that you can keep it clean and non-confrontational, then it will be all good...and more students will join in the fun.

The first attempt thing is not necessarily true.....when Dantes and i attended and Kim Graham was AD, this wasn't an option.....just so were all on the same page.

[SuperJon]

i'm assuming that some people were chanting "youuuu suck" and then some yokle shouted "testicle" afterwards....while adolescently hilarious, it probably has no place being shouted by LU students near the unsaved...or anyone for that matter...

The exact statement was, "Hey, I can see your testicle" in reference to a player getting into a defensive stance and pulling the legs of his shorts all of the way up his thighs.

[RubberMallet]

i'm assuming that some people were chanting "youuuu suck" and then some yokle shouted "testicle" afterwards....while adolescently hilarious, it probably has no place being shouted by LU students near the unsaved...or anyone for that matter...

The exact statement was, "Hey, I can see your testicle" in reference to a player getting into a defensive stance and pulling the legs of his shorts all of the way up his thighs.

next questions

- did you actually see testicle? (i ask because i've actually seen this)

- how loud

[SuperJon]

- I wasn't the one that said it, so I don't know if he did or not.

- I was two people down from him and didn't hear it.

[RubberMallet]

if he didn't shout it out loud who frikking cares if the guy is excited to see some testicles...

[Knucklehead]

You are missing the point of the thread completely.

I started it after reading the now closed thread about last night's activities. What was said at the game was out of line. Much of what was said on here was too. We're either Liberty or we aren't.

Let me just say this. I have 4 kids. My 2 oldest are boys who LOVE LU sports. My almost 13 year old would love to come on here and read and post, but there is NO way I would even let him read it for fear of what he might read. I just don't want to come to the point where I have to worry about bringing them to games too. This is Liberty!

Maybe I missed "the actions that happened afterwords" amongst that ridiculous excuse for a thread. But if it involved they guy who said that stupid statement being removed from the Vines, then I'm glad.

Sorry!

[Knucklehead]

if he didn't shout it out loud who frikking cares if the guy is excited to see some testicles...

This WAS a serious thread about a looming serious problem here and at the school. So much for that.