[adam42381]

You have every right to lead your school in the direction you want since you are principal. That being said, a large university should give it's students options. Every kid at LU isn't a bible thumper and that should be realized by faculty. Treating them like children isn't helping. They are making adult decisions, helping them curb their chance at illness isn't wrong in my eyes. It's not condoning the act. It's realizing that the act is going to happen and keeping the consequences to a minimum.

[belcherboy]

You have every right to lead your school in the direction you want since you are principal. That being said, a large university should give it's students options. Every kid at LU isn't a bible thumper and that should be realized by faculty. Treating them like children isn't helping. They are making adult decisions, helping them curb their chance at illness isn't wrong in my eyes. It's not condoning the act. It's realizing that the act is going to happen and keeping the consequences to a minimum.

The kids who are not "bible thumpers" are the ones that usually don't need the sex education. Society does a GREAT job at educating kids about sex and protection IMO. The ones I worry about are the "bible thumpers" that have been sheltered from any talk of sex. To teach sex is one thing, to teach STD prevention is another. I tend to think that teaching sex and pregnancy prevention is probably a very good thing ( I would advocate within matrimony, but I'm at a christian school). To teach it under the guise that, "we know some of you are going to do it, so here are some safer ways to get it done" is another. Maybe there is no way to separate the two.

I got another question for you guys. Would you advocate that Liberty give out free condoms? I mean if they are doing it, why allow them to worry at all.

by the way, I'm an elementary principal, so I would get fired if I tried to teach sex ed!

[adam42381]

I don't know where I stand with the condoms at LU thing. I don't think it's a bad idea for them to be available free of charge if they could be picked up anonymously somehow.

[Sly Fox]

I come home from church tonight and this place is awash in sex and alcohol talk. I'm missing El Scorcho more by the second.

I have to be honest that I come from an Old Hag perspective here. I guess I am old fashioned but the concept of trying to remove consequences for our sins being promoted by the school seems counterintuitive to the mission of the school.

Yes, I know kids are going to be kids. Yes, I realize that there are kids acting in a stupid fashion out of ignorance. But let's be honest, there are PLENTY of avenues for today's hormonally-charged youngsters to get information. Do we really want to see the school put in a position where we are espousing one thing and then adding with a wink and a nod that we know you are going to break the rules and here is how you can avoid repercussions?

There are valid points being made on both sides of this argument. But I am going to have to fall on the side of the geezers on here. And who knew Blecherboy would be turning into such a hag?

[belcherboy]

I don't know where I stand with the condoms at LU thing. I don't think it's a bad idea for them to be available free of charge if they could be picked up anonymously somehow.

I'm totally cool with that opinion. I worked with the mentally ill, drug addicted homeless when I got out of college for a secular agency. I had clients with AIDS, among every other STD possible. I gave out condoms all the time. I'm getting older (I'm 32 now) and it just bothers me to hear people say that "kids are going to have sex, so let's help them do it safely". If it were my son or daughter, I wouldn't buy or give them a condom. That sounds selfish, but I would kill them first. I'm not married, nor do I have kids so I've got a WHOLE lot to learn.

[phoenix]

I've gotta be a hag on this one, too (surprise, surprise). There are consequences for every act of rebellion, and we DO need to let kids know about those consequences. And maybe I'm looking at it in a big picture way (which I almost never do), but if a few kids have to end up with STDs because they couldn't keep their pants up, maybe someone else will learn a lesson. Yeah, that's harsh, but so is life. The longer we shelter people from that, the worse off they'll be.

I DO think that there needs to be some type of instruction available for kids who didn't get any kind of sex ed before they got to Liberty, but there needs to be an emphasis on avoiding the consequences and not simply not getting "caught" and getting an STD.

[adam42381]

I don't have kids either so I can't speak from experience. From what I believe at this point, I would lean towards giving them options to keep themselves safe while letting them know the dangers that are out there.

[belcherboy]

I come home from church tonight and this place is awash in sex and alcohol talk. I'm missing El Scorcho more by the second.

I have to be honest that I come from an Old Hag perspective here. I guess I am old fashioned but the concept of trying to remove consequences for our sins being promoted by the school seems counterintuitive to the mission of the school.

Yes, I know kids are going to be kids. Yes, I realize that there are kids acting in a stupid fashion out of ignorance. But let's be honest, there are PLENTY of avenues for today's hormonally-charged youngsters to get information. Do we really want to see the school put in a position where we are espousing one thing and then adding with a wink and a nod that we know you are going to break the rules and here is how you can avoid repercussions?

There are valid points being made on both sides of this argument. But I am going to have to fall on the side of the geezers on here. And who knew Blecherboy would be turning into such a hag?

Now I've TOTALLY changed my mind. If Sly agrees with me, I must be on the wrong side of this issue!! Seriously, I am on board with you. I work in a very liberal area, and am constantly questioning why I do certain things and believe the way I do (I've changed in several mindsets I've had). I just can't quite grasp what these guys are promoting. I like their purpose, but I'm not sure I like how they propose to get there.

On a side note.....I'll tell you what totally disturbed me this week....one of my fourth graders had her first period. She is the oldest kid in the class, but it still scares the crap out of you. I'm glad I am not her parents right now. That just seems quite young to me.

[BrysOn_G]

i like sex.

i have not recently, or ever, experienced sex...

however, my instincts tell me i like sex.

[adam42381]

If only the wife weren't already asleep...this is the kind of thread that really puts you in the mood, huh?

[FlamingChick]

I dont think that there should be a safe sex education class, BUT I do think that there should be educational resources and free condoms available at the student health center for those students who need access to them. Due to LU rules, I doubt that would happen though. I wonder if there's any chance that some of the rules will be revised? Out of curiosity (I did not attend LU), I read through all of the rules online, and they are pretty strict!

[RagingTireFire]

Honestly, LU would do well to provide a sex ed class to some of their married students. Back in the day, I remember hearing some reeeeaaaally incorrect stuff from people who had every reason to know better.

[Fumblerooskies]

I still question the quote at the very first post...

I think in light of Liberty's growing problem with STDs

Anyone have stats? With an on-campus population that has doubled since 2000, it stands to reason that the shear number of cases has doubled...but what about in terms of percentages? Anybody?

[jmdickens]

it's not taking responsibility away from students, it is however helping them.

I think God expects us to help others.

If a girl gets pregnant, the future child is the one with the problem

An STD can hurt a future spouse....and aids can be passed on to a child

Those are the reasons why we should promote safe sex at LU, because it protects other people, not just the ones who are having sex...

I knew some (old hags) would go ahead and dismiss the idea..

[Ed Dantes]

Wait, what year is this again? 1987? Honestly, how many people in college this day in age have never heard of a condom or birth-control pills? I know LU has a disproportionate number of sheltered youths in the classroom, but seriously. Every 18-year-old in the country, either from school, their parents, or their peers, or TV, knows about sex and the alternatives.

I think if there are kids at LU who were so sheltered that they have no idea about these things and need to have a Liberty University professor teach them about it... well, then those kids have problems larger than ones a safe sex class will solve.

[SuperJon]

Wait, what year is this again? 1987? Honestly, how many people in college this day in age have never heard of a condom or birth-control pills? I know LU has a disproportionate number of sheltered youths in the classroom, but seriously. Every 18-year-old in the country, either from school, their parents, or their peers, or TV, knows about sex and the alternatives.

I think if there are kids at LU who were so sheltered that they have no idea about these things and need to have a Liberty University professor teach them about it... well, then those kids have problems larger than ones a safe sex class will solve.

You'd be surprised. I thought the same thing as you until this past summer.

[RubberMallet]

"here are some condoms...oh but don't use them..."

[belcherboy]

Wait, what year is this again? 1987? Honestly, how many people in college this day in age have never heard of a condom or birth-control pills? I know LU has a disproportionate number of sheltered youths in the classroom, but seriously. Every 18-year-old in the country, either from school, their parents, or their peers, or TV, knows about sex and the alternatives.

I think if there are kids at LU who were so sheltered that they have no idea about these things and need to have a Liberty University professor teach them about it... well, then those kids have problems larger than ones a safe sex class will solve.

You'd be surprised. I thought the same thing as you until this past summer.

I agree, but do we need to create a class for the 1% of Liberty students who have been oversheltered? We live in the information age, and the internet is available to all. If a college kid is ignorant on sex today, they are just too lazy to figure it out IMO. I know there is a lot of misinformation out there, but do any search on STD prevention and you will find more information (with charts grrrrrr ) than you would ever learn in a classroom. Our society has done a GREAT job at putting good information on condom use, and STD/pregnancy prevention at our fingertips. If you are smart enough to get into college, you should be smart enough to spend 20 minutes researching how to use a condom.

[SuperJon]

Create a class? No. However, it should be a part of the general health class that most students have to take.

[Fumblerooskies]

Create a class? No. However, it should be a part of the general health class that most students have to take.

It is very much a part of HLTH 216...which can be taken as a SocSci gen ed requirement on the left side of your status sheet.

[SuperJon]

Good to know. I'd already taken health before I got here.

[4everfsu]

I would be againist LU passing out condoms under any guise, yes I am an old, old hag. It would be like what they did in SF bay with drug addicts, giving them free needles to shoot up. The temptations is too great for anyone especially young people. My father told me as a young boy a rattleshake was dangerous for me to touch. I never touched one and never will. I was also taught having sex before marriage was wrong, from a biblical standpoint as well as from a moral standpoint, finanical standpoint(becoming a father first could affect your college education, earning power in life).

[SuperJon]

I don't think we should pass them out either. Teach them how to be safe, but don't give them the physical tools. It's a lot easier to say no when you know how to be safe but don't have the things around to be safe. When you've got the materials needed, it's a lot harder to say no.

[Fumblerooskies]

Good to know. I'd already taken health before I got here.

The problem, though, is that HLTH 216 is NOT required for students...but just one of the choices for that side of the sheet.

[PAmedic]

If it were my son or daughter, I wouldn't buy or give them a condom. That sounds selfish, but I would kill them first. I'm not married, nor do I have kids so I've got a WHOLE lot to learn.

ok- THAT prompted a response. I haven't even read anything posted after this- so if someone else jumped on it, I apologize.

HAVE KIDS, THEN SAY THAT.

I would die for my wife and children. If there is ANYTHING I can do to keep them safe- I'll do it- INCLUDING teaching safe-sex practices. And I'm a firm believer that abstinence is the BEST choice, but realistic to understand how kids feel and think.

I could never live with the consequences of my child dying from a mistake due to LACK OF EDUCATION.

I'd bet money FUMBLE agrees with me.