[flamesbball84]

After reading the latest article from Frank Deford on SI.com - http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/w ... index.html - I pose the question: should revenue earning college athletes be paid?

I'm undecided on rather they should - which I take to mean as they have some sort of "right" to be paid - but I personally believe that with the current financial situations of 99% of athletic departments that it is not possible to pay these athletes. Unless something has changed in the past 3 years or so, the last thing I heard is that nearly every single Division I athletic department loses money every year, heck, most schools revenue earning sports and up losing money! Now you want to add some sort of stipend or pay on top of that? I don't see where the money will come from. What if each athlete were to be paid $500, which is not much in my opinion - and surely if such a notion were to pass I imagine it would be much more than $500? A typical football team has around 90-100 players. Pay each $500 and that's between $45k and $50k. If it's a state school, that's about three full scholarships right there.

Drop sorts possibly? That will be a hard sell to other athletes and other constituents, and you can only drop so many because you have to abide by Title IX and each division I school is reqired to have a certain number of mens and womens sports, so a school wont necessarily be able to cut a bunch of sports to cut costs.

Decrease the number of sports required to field? I think that would have a very, very negative effect on the growth of sports across the country both at the college and secondary level and I think will negatively effect the number of youths participating in sports. I find this solution to be a very slippery slope that I do not think should be pursued.

Increased fundraising? Unfortunately, not all schools have the boosters or alumni support to be able to increase fundraising by that much every year. You can argue that the school needs to do a better job getting people to donate, but it's always going to be hard to get more people to donate or get current donors to give more.

Cut scholarships offered? Coaches will fight that tooth and nail and that's going to be a really hard sell to future D1 caliber athletes and the families of D1 caliber athletes who can't afford a college education any other way.

Stop spending so much and/or frivously? Yeah that's never going to happen. The coaches are always going to want even more and more money in their budget regardless of how big and exorbitant it is. This solution will happen when the government cuts spending...

[SuperJon]

Athletes do get paid. Here's how:

They're given a full scholarship. That is to go towards their tuition and room and board. However, in most cases, the athletes choose to stay off campus.

Since the athlete's scholarship is not paying their room and board, they get a stipend every month to cover their rent. Generally speaking, 6 months rent is going to be cheaper than room and board at most colleges. The athletes take the stipend, pay their rent, and then they are allowed to pocket the rest of the money.

[flamesbball84]

yes i know that, but all the pundits say that the scholarship isnt enough to cover the "full college experience." I'm not 100% sure what that's supposed to mean - does it mean that it doesn't pay for one to go out for a night on the town, doesn't pay for a round of pizza and beers for him and his boys? Regardless of what it is supposed to mean, I'm not aware of any full scholarship that pays for anything other than tuition, room and board, books, and various fees that all students are required to pay. I've known very, very poor kids (poor to the point where going to McDonald's for dinner is a very special treat and unless you love mcdonalds a lot, I dont think any of you would consider it a very special treat if that was your dinner) get full academic scholarships and never once to my knowledge complained about how their scholarship didn't pay for them to order a pizza. It's an ATHLETIC scholarship, not a full college experience scholarship...

[SuperJon]

They get every single meal paid for on-campus, regardless of if they live on campus or not. Add to that team meals (for free) which are much better than any normal student would eat in a lot of cases. They also get their books for free which they sell back at the end of the semester and pocket the money.

So, let's see the checklist of things paid for:

1) School
2) Rent
3) Food

Those are the essentials of the college experience. Not to mention a couple hundred dollars after all is said and done that they can pocket from leftover stipend money and books.

[TDDance234]

Agree with SJ here. The tuition, room and board (or stipend to cover off-campus arrangements) is more than enough compensation. That college diploma is going to be worth more than any salary they could receive.

[Purple Haize]

Student Athletes are also eligible for State and Federal aid which is over and above their scholarship to help with the "daily expenses of college life". Further, they are alloted "X" number of hours to work, a change in the last couple of years when they were not allowed to work during certain times. Further, they are also eligible for STUDENT LOANS!! How many college students graduate with a nice package of student loans to pay back? It is no crime for a scholarship athlete to also incur student loan debts. Add to that the summer jobs that they can work and save money from, it is not that bad a deal. The good news is that it won't be nearly has heavy as those who have to borrow for tuition room books AND "daily expenses of college life"!
Yes, revenue sports, especially at "big time" institutions bring in a lot of money. So what? They also SPEND a lot of money. A LOT of different things on a campus draw different students. A lot of different departments bring in grants, students and noteriety to a school. I LOVe athletes, i even sleep with one, so I think that it is a good deal that they are receiving1

[flamesbball84]

I LOVe athletes, i even sleep with one, so I think that it is a good deal that they are receiving1

Too much information!!

[ALAFlamesFan]

I have no problem paying them a reasonable stipend. Something on the par with someone who has a part-time job and is working their way through college. No more that $1000 per month but enough to acknowledge that in the case of many schools these athletes bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[Purple Haize]

ALA but bringing in money is not the point. Should the admissions folks be paid a commission based on everyone they bring in? What about the students who bring people in word of mouth? Will they get a stipend. There are so many revenue streams in a university setting that to just single out one department is not a great idea. Further, what if the athletic department LOSES money, as most do? What then? Do they go further in debt to pay their athletes a stipend? Think of the number of athletes, from Football, to Soccer, to CC, to Hockey to Crew, and multiple it by 1000. That is a nice chunck of change! So if a department is already losing money you would suggest they lose more? If that is the case, that athletes should get paid b/c they bring money into the school, should they then be forced to reimburse the school if the department loses money?

[SuperJon]

I have no problem paying them a reasonable stipend. Something on the par with someone who has a part-time job and is working their way through college. No more that $1000 per month but enough to acknowledge that in the case of many schools these athletes bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars.

So should the band, the English department, etc at schools get paid because they bring in money for the school?

[ALAFlamesFan]

Should the admissions folks be paid a commission based on everyone they bring in?

If you are trying to get to 15,000 this might be worth looking into. I think folks work better on incentive/commission personally. LOL

Seriously though, and this does not apply to LU but rather BCS type schools, if you want to keep the quaint college experience don't charge $30 per ticket, plus seat license fee, plus $500k for the right to then lease a skybox for $38k per year. At Alabama the football program nets $32M per year. The football scholarships are all endowed so no $ out of pocket for them yet the athletes have to sell their books to make it home to see mom and dad for christmas because if their roomate lends them the bus fare it is "an extra benefit". Come on. These kids spend hours each day practicing to put on a great show and have no time and in most cases are not allowed to have a part time job during the season or in many cases after (ask your compliance officer about the headaches of policing part-time jobs to make sure there is not violation of NCAA rules).

I am just saying pay them at least what you would make at McDonalds for the hours they are required to be at practice, study hall, etc and you solve alot of headaches.

[ALAFlamesFan]

So should the band

LOL...show me a band that makes $ after uniforms, travel, etc...

[SuperJon]

The big-time HBCU's, the Ohio St type bands, etc. They have people donating big money every year to the band, and most bands don't get new uniforms every year.

[El Scorcho]

So should the English department schools get paid because they bring in money for the school?

Though CiderJim may debate me on what qualifies as "pay", it is worth noting that the English departments of most schools are paid for their work.

[ALAFlamesFan]

Ok then let me rephrase my argument.

If you are running essentially a for profit company you should pay your employees a reasonable wage. Most big time athletic programs operate separately from the university (ie. no funds that could be used for the library, professor's salaries, etc are used for athletics). These "companies" should be allowed to pay their employees either through scholarships and/or cash to add up to a reasonable wage.

If you look at it that way then it can be argued that players at LU get "paid" more then those at Alabama based on the cost of tuition and living expenses at a private vs. public school. UA players are getting the shaft! LOL...

Further, it could be argued that some folks who have no shot at a professional career would be better off paying for school and working a job for the hours that they spend practicing and preparing for their sport. They would come out way ahead on "compensation" for services rendered (depending on tuition costs per school).

[jcmanson]

I beg to differ ALA, I have student loans I will be paying on for 15 years, when these athletes graduate, even if they don't go pro, have $0 student loans. That's enough compensation in my book, not to mention all the other perks (i.e. shoes, clothes, books, food, etc.)

[ALAFlamesFan]

I beg to differ ALA, I have student loans I will be paying on for 15 years, when these athletes graduate, even if they don't go pro, have $0 student loans. That's enough compensation in my book, not to mention all the other perks (i.e. shoes, clothes, books, food, etc.)

Good point. Private schools cost more but at a typical state school, especially if you take the community college route your first year or two, if you work a job for the hours spent by athletes working on their games (including summer workouts, weight rooms, etc) you would come out ahead.

I don't know your personal situation but I am just stating things in general terms.

[jcmanson]

I don't see how you would come out ahead, I worked an average of 20 hours a week while in school, and 40 during breaks, and I never saw a dime. All that money went to rent, power & water & phone bills, books, food, dates, etc.

[ALAFlamesFan]

This is related to our conversation here.

[badger74]

Football and maybe basketball profits have to cover all the other sports. Only a small minority of D-1 schools can do this. Most have to add student fees, etc to just break even. Athletes on the football and basketball teams are very well treated. and the value of their scholarship and other support is probably around $50,000/yr.

[Ed Dantes]

Athletes do get paid. Here's how:

They're given a full scholarship. That is to go towards their tuition and room and board. However, in most cases, the athletes choose to stay off campus.

Since the athlete's scholarship is not paying their room and board, they get a stipend every month to cover their rent. Generally speaking, 6 months rent is going to be cheaper than room and board at most colleges. The athletes take the stipend, pay their rent, and then they are allowed to pocket the rest of the money.

Well, not all athletes are given a full schollie. In baseball, for example, you have 30 players on a team but only 9 or 12 full scholarships, so the team will usually divide scholarships in half so they can give them to more athletes.

Still, I oppose paying athletes because they do get pretty much everything covered, they get stipends, and honestly -- it would devastate LU.

We won a lot of football games because we had transfers from Pitt, Tech, and UVA -- schools that can afford to pay athletes. We can't. We were $7 million in the hole a few years ago. I don't know which of our football players it was, but he left VTech after being demoted to second string. Well, would that same person leave Tech and come to LU if he was also gonna lose $10,000 or $15,000 or however many bucks he was getting paid to be a Hokie?

[flamesbball84]

Let's look at alabama. If an athlete is from Alabama, tuition is (according to collegeboard.com) is $5700, room and board is $5868, and books and supplies are estimated to be $950. Also you need to tack on what I would assume is a few hundred dollars (going with 200 to make my math calculations) for various fees that all students have to pay. That amounts to $12,718 per year. If out of state, it would be $23,536. What's a college student make per hour at your typical college student job, anywhere from minimum wage to 10-12 dollars an hour? If they make 12 dollars an hour - and i don't believe many college students are taking in 12 dollars an hour - and are out of state, they would have to work 1961 hours a year, which means an average of 37.7 hours a week. In-state they would have to average 20.3 hours a week, which is reasonable.

If they make $10/hour, an out of state student would have to average 45.2 hours a week and an in-state student would have to work 24.5 hours a week.

If you are an out-of-state student going to Alabama, you are simply not going to come out ahead by working instead of getting a full scholarship. Not only will you have to work A LOT, you are most likely not going to be able to find a job that will give you nearly enough hours to cover the very bare bones expenses of going to college unless you decide to work in a factory and then I don't see how you would be able to handle going to school full-time and working full-time.

If you are an in-state student, you'd be working around 25 hours a week, which isn't substantially less hours than what you have to put in for your sport.

So in both situations not only are you barely coming out ahead or not coming out ahead, you are probably working a job that you don't like and you won't be receiving all the fringe benefits you get by participating in athletics on a scholarship, which ranges from free food, free clothing, opportunity to travel throughout the country and possibly oversees for free, the opportunity to live off or on-campus for free, etc. Also, non-tangible benefits exist, such as the experience and fond memories you have from athletics - I dont know of many students who tell wonderful stories about their fast-food job in their college days.

If you go to school on an athletic scholarship, you are guaranteed to have all your necessary expenses paid for as long as you are on the scholarship without having to be concerned about making enough money to cover the expenses, but you can also work at least part-time in the summer and the off-season and bring in a couple to a few thousand dollars that can be used to pay for whatever parts of the "full college experience" that the pundits claim isn't covered by a full scholarship.

[belcherboy]

I think they should get a flat rate ($200-$300 a month or so for school months). Here are my pros and cons in paying athletes:


Pros:
1. I think it would keep kids in school longer. It would allow them to enjoy the experience and not get lured into easy money somewhere else.
2. I think it would help against boosters/agents/etc. They are already getting these gifts, so it could help take out the temptation from dealing with other shady people and make things work better.
3. Athletes (at least from larger conferences) are working 60+ hours a week in season (travel, prep, etc.). Usually 30+ hours a week outside of the season.

Cons:
1. They get a $20,000+ scholarship each year they play.
2. They get $500+ in books
3. Lots of freebees (shoes, clothing, etc.)
4. They eat and live for free.


My friend was on full scholarship at South Alabama University (baskeball and baseball) and he would tell me the workout/study routine that they were forced to go through on yearly basis. Now he did tell me about finding some mysterious money in his locker or coat pocket at times (He told me about having a great basketball game against Auburn and finding a couple of hundred bucks in his coat pocket later that night), but obviously that is illegal. Pretty much in order to do things like go to the movies, eat something besides cafeteria food (we know how awesome eating at Marriot 3 times a day for 4-5 years would be), take a girl out, go to spring break (if it wasn't in season), take a weekend trip, etc. Things normal kids in college do, they would have to beg, borrow, or steal (not literally, but take gift money illegally). Now they could take student loans, but they are pretty much working quite a bit harder than most people who makes $30,000 would work and will end up being in debt after working their tale off for 4-5 years. In most programs they are making their school HUGE amounts of money. Comparing them to a college kid who works at Walmart is not fair IMO. 10 kids in any top 50 basketball school should make their school $1 million or much more in a year.

The reason I think paying them would be impossible is because not all programs are making money. With equality in girls and boys sports, it could bankrupt smaller programs. Giving away scholarships is much cheaper than giving away cash for schools. It would be nice if the NCAA took part in funding the process, but we know that will never happen. Forcing schools to pay each of their full scholarship athletes a couple of hundred to a couple of thousand dollars a year could shut some programs down. Forcing bigger schools to pay more to help out smaller schools would also be unfair (the Yankees rule).

Overall, yes I think the athletes should get some money. I just don't think they could create a way to do it without killing the small programs and really hurting the bigger ones when you have to pay EVERY full ride athlete in the school a weekly/monthly amount.

[belcherboy]

Football and maybe basketball profits have to cover all the other sports. Only a small minority of D-1 schools can do this. Most have to add student fees, etc to just break even. Athletes on the football and basketball teams are very well treated. and the value of their schoarship and other support is probably around $50,000/yr.

Can you support the argument that a scholarship athlete virtually is given $50,000/ year in services?

I've got a feeling that if you average it out, it is not that high. Do most companies add into your salary/job compensation things like work travel, food while on the road, hotel rooms, etc.? I've never worked for one that did, nor have I ever heard of someone who did. I think you would find that most athletes are given scholarships that range from around $10,000-$25,000 a year. I'm taking into affect that many student athletes would get a lot of finacial aid due to their family income, which would mean if they were not an athlete they would still receive some funds.

I agree that it is hard for many schools, but it costs schools nearly nothing to give away an education. If you are writing those people checks each month, that is a different story that could cause problems financially for the institution.

[JDUB]

athletes don't sell their books back. or at least they aren't supposed to. they turn them in, and someone from the sports department brings them back to the bookstore.