[truedrewdawg87]

What are the REALISTIC odds of Liberty EVER reaching the level of a USF or Boise St? I mean be honest with yourselves people. Plus, what ever happened to dominating on the level you're on and being happy there? Who says EVERY highly successful 1-AA program NEEDS to move up? I mean let's say App. St. stays 1-AA and wins 10 national titles in the next 15 years. Are you telling me they should ditch all that and go D-1? How much sense would that make? You're going to trade being king of 1-AA for NOTHING more than a SHOT at doing the same in 1-A? That is a TREMENDOUS risk, not to mention an enormous financial gamble as well. If the program doesn't produce on the field in a few years, you can't tell me that recruiting won't take a hit. Sure, it may be sexy to strut around the halls of a high school telling all your friends you're headed to Boone, N.C. to play football for the back-to-back 1-AA champs, but if they make the jump and start struggling that'll change before you know it. Also, you wanna see a loyal fan base get restless, let App. start struggling in D-1 and that win at the Big House will seem like a distant memory. Wins like that are amazing not just for football but for sports. At the same time, they also raise the expectations for a program to new heights. I'm not sure all those factors are things LU is ready to take on. They weren't ready for Elon's offense, but then again, you guys seem to think they can eventually compete in a BCS conference. Be careful what you ask for.

[El Scorcho]

What are the REALISTIC odds of Liberty EVER reaching the level of a USF or Boise St? I mean be honest with yourselves people. Plus, what ever happened to dominating on the level you're on and being happy there? Who says EVERY highly successful 1-AA program NEEDS to move up? I mean let's say App. St. stays 1-AA and wins 10 national titles in the next 15 years. Are you telling me they should ditch all that and go D-1? How much sense would that make? You're going to trade being king of 1-AA for NOTHING more than a SHOT at doing the same in 1-A? That is a TREMENDOUS risk, not to mention an enormous financial gamble as well. If the program doesn't produce on the field in a few years, you can't tell me that recruiting won't take a hit. Sure, it may be sexy to strut around the halls of a high school telling all your friends you're headed to Boone, N.C. to play football for the back-to-back 1-AA champs, but if they make the jump and start struggling that'll change before you know it. Also, you wanna see a loyal fan base get restless, let App. start struggling in D-1 and that win at the Big House will seem like a distant memory. Wins like that are amazing not just for football but for sports. At the same time, they also raise the expectations for a program to new heights. I'm not sure all those factors are things LU is ready to take on. They weren't ready for Elon's offense, but then again, you guys seem to think they can eventually compete in a BCS conference. Be careful what you ask for.

The odds of Liberty even existing in the year 2007 were pretty slim. We tend to ignore odds around here. Call us crazy.

Your opinion has been read and acknowledged, however.

[Schfourteenteen]

What are the REALISTIC odds of Liberty EVER reaching the level of a USF or Boise St? I mean be honest with yourselves people. Plus, what ever happened to dominating on the level you're on and being happy there? Who says EVERY highly successful 1-AA program NEEDS to move up? I mean let's say App. St. stays 1-AA and wins 10 national titles in the next 15 years. Are you telling me they should ditch all that and go D-1? How much sense would that make? You're going to trade being king of 1-AA for NOTHING more than a SHOT at doing the same in 1-A? That is a TREMENDOUS risk, not to mention an enormous financial gamble as well. If the program doesn't produce on the field in a few years, you can't tell me that recruiting won't take a hit. Sure, it may be sexy to strut around the halls of a high school telling all your friends you're headed to Boone, N.C. to play football for the back-to-back 1-AA champs, but if they make the jump and start struggling that'll change before you know it. Also, you wanna see a loyal fan base get restless, let App. start struggling in D-1 and that win at the Big House will seem like a distant memory. Wins like that are amazing not just for football but for sports. At the same time, they also raise the expectations for a program to new heights. I'm not sure all those factors are things LU is ready to take on. They weren't ready for Elon's offense, but then again, you guys seem to think they can eventually compete in a BCS conference. Be careful what you ask for.

Well with me youve lost all credibility. Liberty, App state, were all DI.

Youre right we werent ready for the Elon offense. Why does one game tells us we cant do it ever? It doesnt. Right now were getting better, miles ahead of two years ago. Thats why its feasable. Not now, but as a future goal. Back when Jerry wanted a school and a church all together on his mountain people probably said well you need a school with accrediation first. So ya know what they got there. Here we are

If the goal is IA-FBS then yes there are things we need to do, like win and get lucky with a decent conference. But why should we ignore something that is very possible? Why should we just completly drop an opportunity just because theres risk involved? Obviously we need to win and we cant just jump off the edge hoping theres something to land on, but why kill the idea just because we cant do it now?

[Rocketfan]

What are the REALISTIC odds of Liberty EVER reaching the level of a USF or Boise St? I mean be honest with yourselves people. Plus, what ever happened to dominating on the level you're on and being happy there? Who says EVERY highly successful 1-AA program NEEDS to move up? I mean let's say App. St. stays 1-AA and wins 10 national titles in the next 15 years. Are you telling me they should ditch all that and go D-1? How much sense would that make? You're going to trade being king of 1-AA for NOTHING more than a SHOT at doing the same in 1-A? That is a TREMENDOUS risk, not to mention an enormous financial gamble as well. If the program doesn't produce on the field in a few years, you can't tell me that recruiting won't take a hit. Sure, it may be sexy to strut around the halls of a high school telling all your friends you're headed to Boone, N.C. to play football for the back-to-back 1-AA champs, but if they make the jump and start struggling that'll change before you know it. Also, you wanna see a loyal fan base get restless, let App. start struggling in D-1 and that win at the Big House will seem like a distant memory. Wins like that are amazing not just for football but for sports. At the same time, they also raise the expectations for a program to new heights. I'm not sure all those factors are things LU is ready to take on. They weren't ready for Elon's offense, but then again, you guys seem to think they can eventually compete in a BCS conference. Be careful what you ask for.

Well with me youve lost all credibility. Liberty, App state, were all DI.

Youre right we werent ready for the Elon offense. Why does one game tells us we cant do it ever? It doesnt. Right now were getting better, miles ahead of two years ago. Thats why its feasable. Not now, but as a future goal. Back when Jerry wanted a school and a church all together on his mountain people probably said well you need a school with accrediation first. So ya know what they got there. Here we are

If the goal is IA-FBS then yes there are things we need to do, like win and get lucky with a decent conference. But why should we ignore something that is very possible? Why should we just completly drop an opportunity just because theres risk involved? Obviously we need to win and we cant just jump off the edge hoping theres something to land on, but why kill the idea just because we cant do it now?

Also around here....i don't know of anyone with less than 20 posts that even has credibilty....its earned, not given when you get a screen name assigned.

[truedrewdawg87]

I'm sorry I don't have enough posts to be deemed 'credible' in the eyes of the readers of this board. My life has just taken a CRUSHING blow. EXCUSE ME for being the one LU alum on this board who doesn't think Liberty moving up is a good idea. I want to see Liberty football succeed as much as the next guy. I transfered to Liberty after spending two years at an NAIA school that didn't even have football. Trust me, homecoming soccer games just don't have the same hype. After being on a campus that longed for football, I understand the importance of having a successful program on campus. I guess that's one reason I'm not big on this move. I just don't want to see this thing backfire, because rather you guys want to admit it or not it doesn't work for most school's. I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to see Liberty win a football national championship one day. But, I also realize that Liberty beating Montana or Appalachian in the 1-AA title game is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more of a reality than to EVER think Liberty will one day slug it out for four quarters with LSU or USC in the BCS title game, let alone ANY BOWL GAME. Hang me out to dry for disagreeing if you want, but I honestly expected more from fellow LU fans than to basically tell me my opinion is ridiculous just because my thinking doesn't meet the criteria. Have fun chasing your BCS dreams...

[LUconn]

What you're saying is fine. You're obviously not about money, prestige or anything else but success. But on the same token, if you really believe that, you should be advocating dropping down to DI in all other sports that we're currently not winning national championships. In basketball, we have no shot at winning the entire tournament. But hey, we almost beat Barton college last year, the current 2 time defending DII champs. We should drop down, no?

[El Scorcho]

EXCUSE ME for being the one LU alum on this board who doesn't think Liberty moving up is a good idea.

You are hardly the only one, but if that makes you feel more sane then by all means, stick to it.

[Schfourteenteen]

If we used that "well lets just be good here" logic then we wouldnt have moved up to DI in anything. Why should we go NCAA if we can be good at NAIA?

Moving up now is a terrible idea, Moving up in 5 years wont happen either, no one is saying thats not true. But why dont we strive for that? And if we get a conference invite that would push us up to IA, why not jump on it?

Moving up to IA puts you in a better conference in just about every sport. Why say its stupid just because of football?

[truedrewdawg87]

I didn't say moving from NAIA to ultimately the D-1 level for SOME of our sports is bad. Obviously, Liberty's sports programs as a whole have shown they can compete on the D-1 level. I'm just not in favor of moving to a level where you're not guaranteed that you're going to compete when you haven't shown you can CONSISTENTLY compete with the top schools at the level you're currently on. If you're a kid in high school struggling to get dates with the girls who are managers for the football team, you're probably not going to score a date with the head cheerleader. And the way I see it, I just don't understand why fans of a school are SO EAGER to move up when their football team hasn't really achieved ANYTHING. I mean tell me ONE thing of IMPORTANCE outside of a few 'nice' seasons and that one win over Eastern Michigan that Liberty football has EVER accomplished. I wouldn't be so against this if the Flames were in the playoffs year after year or contending for championships. I mean this is the equivalent of Kansas City Royals fans talking about how great its going to be when their team finally puts the right pieces together and wins the World Series in four or five years. You have to have SOMETHING to base your argument on and right now I'm not seeing. What LU fan wouldn't LOVE to see the Flames playing in a BCS bowl? I know I would, but I also try to be rational and see things for what they really are. Plus, if Liberty does join a BCS Conference, either the mindset of the majority of blue chip high school recruits will have to change their thinking toward schools like Liberty, or LU will have to relax some of its standards. Personally, the Liberty Way didn't really require any lifestyle changes on my part, but for 'Johnny Blue Chip,' who has LSU, USC and Florida beating down his door to come play for them, a midnight curfew, no R-rated movies and telling him his girlfriend can't come chill in his dorm room isn't exactly going to get him salivating about spending the next four years of his life in Lynchburg. And anyone that thinks Liberty can compete at the next level with the talent currently on its roster needs a serious reality check. Hate me for being realistic if you want to, but it sounds like somebody needs to be.

[Schfourteenteen]

That sounds about right

[LUconn]

apples and oranges.

[thepostman]

I didn't say moving from NAIA to ultimately the D-1 level for SOME of our sports is bad. Obviously, Liberty's sports programs as a whole have shown they can compete on the D-1 level. I'm just not in favor of moving to a level where you're not guaranteed that you're going to compete when you haven't shown you can CONSISTENTLY compete with the top schools at the level you're currently on. If you're a kid in high school struggling to get dates with the girls who are managers for the football team, you're probably not going to score a date with the head cheerleader. And the way I see it, I just don't understand why fans of a school are SO EAGER to move up when their football team hasn't really achieved ANYTHING. I mean tell me ONE thing of IMPORTANCE outside of a few 'nice' seasons and that one win over Eastern Michigan that Liberty football has EVER accomplished. I wouldn't be so against this if the Flames were in the playoffs year after year or contending for championships. I mean this is the equivalent of Kansas City Royals fans talking about how great its going to be when their team finally puts the right pieces together and wins the World Series in four or five years. You have to have SOMETHING to base your argument on and right now I'm not seeing. What LU fan wouldn't LOVE to see the Flames playing in a BCS bowl? I know I would, but I also try to be rational and see things for what they really are. Plus, if Liberty does join a BCS Conference, either the mindset of the majority of blue chip high school recruits will have to change their thinking toward schools like Liberty, or LU will have to relax some of its standards. Personally, the Liberty Way didn't really require any lifestyle changes on my part, but for 'Johnny Blue Chip,' who has LSU, USC and Florida beating down his door to come play for them, a midnight curfew, no R-rated movies and telling him his girlfriend can't come chill in his dorm room isn't exactly going to get him salivating about spending the next four years of his life in Lynchburg. And anyone that thinks Liberty can compete at the next level with the talent currently on its roster needs a serious reality check. Hate me for being realistic if you want to, but it sounds like somebody needs to be.

I agree with some of what you are saying...but crufew will be gone within 5 years, as will many of the rules that aren't core to LU's christian beliefs....I do not want to see us rush into it, but I do want to see it happen some day...

you have a right to your opinion....quite a few on here actually agree with you, so you are far from alone....I disagree that we should never attempt to move up. In my opinion If we had that attitude we would still be at 200 students and only have a bible school.

[truedrewdawg87]

Ok...way to TOTALLY twist my words. I'm talking about ATHLETICS. That means sports in case you weren't sure. Sports has NOTHING to do with the school growing from a tiny dream to a thriving Christian University. This is about doing what makes SENSE, not what seems COOL or what would get the Liberty name out there on a larger level. I keep going back to the point that almost all you ironically keep ignoring. Liberty's football program has accomplished NOTHING. And yet, and yet, Flames fans IGNORE that fact and INSIST on talking about moving up and the BCS. That is RIDICULOUS. Liberty struggles to CONSISTENTLY compete at the 1-AA level, and somehow you guys are oblivious to that and think the BCS is a good idea. If you struggle to go an hour without having a knock down drag out fight with your girlfriend, you probably shouldn't pop the question. If you can't win your conference or make the playoffs, you probably shouldn't salivate about scheduling USC. I don't know why so many ignorant Liberty fans can't grasp this concept. Plus, one of you guys mentioned that Liberty basketball will probably NEVER win a national title. Why don't you guys realize that the same can CERTAINLY be said for Liberty football if it makes the jump, but if it focuses on developing its program at the 1-AA level and trying to unseat Appalachian, that could be a very realistic possibility. But then again, I guess I should hope none of that ever happens, because the second Liberty earns its first playoff berth, Jeff Barber will be bombarded with fans telling him Liberty needs to make the jump, because after all that makes SO much sense.

[El Scorcho]

Sports has NOTHING to do with the school growing from a tiny dream to a thriving Christian University. This is about doing what makes SENSE, not what seems COOL or what would get the Liberty name out there on a larger level.

Apparently you don't know ANYTHING about the history of Liberty athletics. The only reason we have athletics here in the FIRST PLACE are as a recruiting/marketing tool. If sports aren't HELPING the school grow or get the school's name out there, then it's hard to see how they're helping us fulfill our MISSION.

P.S.

CAPITAL WORDS 4EVER!

[LUconn]

I keep going back to the point that almost all you ironically keep ignoring. Liberty's football program has accomplished NOTHING.

Alright, I've sort of been winding my posting in this thread down, but I think every post I have made in this thread has been specifically addressed at the point we're "ignoring". I'm not sure if you're not reading the posts and you're just responding to what you and your friends are talking about or what. FCS != FBS.

[thepostman]

Ok...way to TOTALLY twist my words. I'm talking about ATHLETICS. That means sports in case you weren't sure. Sports has NOTHING to do with the school growing from a tiny dream to a thriving Christian University. This is about doing what makes SENSE, not what seems COOL or what would get the Liberty name out there on a larger level. I keep going back to the point that almost all you ironically keep ignoring. Liberty's football program has accomplished NOTHING. And yet, and yet, Flames fans IGNORE that fact and INSIST on talking about moving up and the BCS. That is RIDICULOUS. Liberty struggles to CONSISTENTLY compete at the 1-AA level, and somehow you guys are oblivious to that and think the BCS is a good idea. If you struggle to go an hour without having a knock down drag out fight with your girlfriend, you probably shouldn't pop the question. If you can't win your conference or make the playoffs, you probably shouldn't salivate about scheduling USC. I don't know why so many ignorant Liberty fans can't grasp this concept. Plus, one of you guys mentioned that Liberty basketball will probably NEVER win a national title. Why don't you guys realize that the same can CERTAINLY be said for Liberty football if it makes the jump, but if it focuses on developing its program at the 1-AA level and trying to unseat Appalachian, that could be a very realistic possibility. But then again, I guess I should hope none of that ever happens, because the second Liberty earns its first playoff berth, Jeff Barber will be bombarded with fans telling him Liberty needs to make the jump, because after all that makes SO much sense.

I wasn't twisting your words...all I was saying was if we had the same attitude with everything then our school would not be where it is today....I am not for jumping just for the sake of jumping...but years down the road we should not rule it out. You are getting upset at me for having a different opinion, and I just don't understand that. I don't agree with you, but I can understand why you feel the way that you do. I was trying to say in the nicest way possible that you are not the only one that has this opinion...

Maybe you aren't angry at all, but it sounds as if you are getting fired up about nothing. This is years down the road, no need to get your panties in a wad

[paradox]

One little note to all of the naysayers:


The University of South Florida is currently the #2 ranked team in the nation. If they can win out, then they'll get a chance to play in the title game.

Their football program has been in existance for all of eleven seasons. Up until two years ago, when they won the Insigificant.com Bowl, what did they accomplish---on any level? Did they even play 1AA?

I'm sure a lot of naysayers said that they'd never amount to anything, especially in the championship-rich land of U of Miami, U of Florida, and Florida State.

I don't expect LU to be #2 in the country anytime soon, but I don't see why we can't take the next step up when the opportunity presents itself.

[SuperJon]

FCS != FBS.

Something I still think is absolutely stupid.

[LUconn]

FCS != FBS.

Something I still think is absolutely stupid.

This is my favorite argument we have on here, because I really can't lose. Although, I can't win either. But USF is the perfect example. Did they have success on the FCS/AA level? no, they got a perfect situation of getting invited to a BCS conference along with being in talent rich Florida. Under the right circumstances the jump makes sense. EVEN IF YOU HAVE NOT DONE WELL IN FCS.

[SuperJon]

That's not the perfect situation. They played in Raymond James from the start. The only reason they didn't start in FBS is that they weren't allowed to.

You also can't compare them because they are the 2nd or 3rd largest school in Florida and have like 40,000 students.

[El Scorcho]

EVEN IF YOU HAVE NOT DONE WELL IN FCS.

YES! CAPITAL LETTERS!

[LUconn]

it caught your attention didn't it


And I can compare them because they did exactly what you said can't happen.

[SuperJon]

I said that an FCS school can't move up and have success without having success first at the FCS level.



South Florida was never a true FCS school. All they did was stay FCS the four years required of the program. They weren't a team that was rooted in FCS football.

[paradox]

One little note to all of the naysayers:


The University of South Florida is currently the #2 ranked team in the nation. If they can win out, then they'll get a chance to play in the title game.

Their football program has been in existance for all of eleven seasons. Up until two years ago, when they won the Insigificant.com Bowl, what did they accomplish---on any level? Did they even play 1AA?

I'm sure a lot of naysayers said that they'd never amount to anything, especially in the championship-rich land of U of Miami, U of Florida, and Florida State.

I don't expect LU to be #2 in the country anytime soon, but I don't see why we can't take the next step up when the opportunity presents itself.

One more note to add:

Parity exists in major college football in 2007. The traditional schools are not nearly as dominating as they once were due to a reduction in scholarships at the 1A level--which means: big schools can no longer stockpile talent like they did in the past.

We are already seeing evidence of this with big-time upsets week after week and teams like South Florida coming out of nowhere and positioning themselves for a shot at the biggest prize of all.

[SuperJon]

South Florida is located in Tampa, right next to the beach, and is bigger than Liberty can ever dream of being. There's no way to compare the two. They never had to build or expand a stadium. They could rely on in-state talent. It's not a comparison that's valid.